This is such a boring topic to me. People sitting around trying to figure out what masculinity is or isn't seems like such a waste of time. Just be a decent person and treat others with respect....
This is such a boring topic to me. People sitting around trying to figure out what masculinity is or isn't seems like such a waste of time.
Just be a decent person and treat others with respect. Beyond that, do whatever you want. Like riding horses and shooting guns and chewing tobacco? Go nuts. Want to wear a dress? Hope you find one that is flattering and makes you feel good.
I'll never understand people. "What is a man?" Who cares?
Lots of people care because they believe traditional manhood is a foundational quality for a healthy society, family, etc. The very definition of conservatism is the idea that we need to treasure...
Lots of people care because they believe traditional manhood is a foundational quality for a healthy society, family, etc.
The very definition of conservatism is the idea that we need to treasure and protect traditional values, regardless of their actual validity, because change is scary.
Conservatism vs progressivism is an eternal battle, not to be taken lightly.
Agreed. On top of that, part of the success of the alt right pipeline is that when insecure teenagers try and figure out what being a man is on the internet progressives simply give them a "who...
Agreed. On top of that, part of the success of the alt right pipeline is that when insecure teenagers try and figure out what being a man is on the internet progressives simply give them a "who cares" whereas the alt right outright says, "Yes my friend, take my hand and I will tell you everything you need to do to be a real man".
Honestly, I feel like Dracula is a great example for examining the shifting narratives of masculinity and masculine sexual identity. Between Dracula and Dr. Helsing, their original incarnations...
Exemplary
Honestly, I feel like Dracula is a great example for examining the shifting narratives of masculinity and masculine sexual identity.
Between Dracula and Dr. Helsing, their original incarnations and subsequent pop-culture depictions are quite telling of the society and times they're created in.
In the original incarnation, you have two versions of masculinity that are intriguing if you are only familiar with the pop-culture depictions.
The first version, Dracula, is an older, grizzled man, teeming with hair - thick white mustache and hairy palms. While he does get rejuvenated later in the story, this depiction of Dracula is an ancient masculinity - voracious, a predator of the mind, body, and soul, consuming his partners whole. This is a masculinity that is dominating and unyielding, a natural force devouring whatever it's gaze settles on, a slave to it's base desires. While normally composed, his basal nature bursts forth in various points of the novel.
The second, Dr. Helsing, contrasts our antagonist sharply. Clean shaven, well composed, a quite humorous inoffensive Dutch Renaissance man. From the narrative -
"He is a philosopher and a metaphysician, and one of the most advanced scientists of his day, and he has, I believe, an absolutely open mind. This, with an iron nerve, a temper of the ice-brook, and indomitable resolution, self-command, and toleration exalted from virtues to blessings, and the kindliest and truest heart that beats, these form his equipment for the noble work that he is doing for mankind, work both in theory and practice, for his views are as wide as his all-embracing sympathy."
— Letter From Dr Seward to Arthur Holmwood, chapter 9, Dracula
Contrast these depictions to pop-culture, and from my perspective we see the reverse. Dracula, a clean-shaven, reserved, plotting and restrained villain achieving his desires through a quiet calm. Van Helsing, a grizzled macho vampire hunter who's masculinity feels projected like a man screaming about his virility from the rooftops.
Take what you will from these wildly contrasting depictions, but I will say that the author's biases should be taken into account. It's believed Dracula is based upon Walt Whitman, American poet, and known to be particularly embracing of his own masculinity and sexual identity. Walt's speculative sexuality is infamous, as many men are speculated to have been his paramours, with even Oscar Wilde professing "I have the kiss of Walt Whitman still on my lips." in one of Oscar's letters to homosexual-rights activist George Cecil Ives.
Indeed, Bram Stoker was so captivated by Walt that he wrote love letters to the man unbidden, pouring his heart and soul to letters filled with a passion and yearning unrequited.
I find that viewing history with a lens of modernity helps me view situations from the perspective of my contemporaries. In this context, the lens I find lends the original story hilariously enough to a self insert horror romance. Bram creating a ghastly spectre of foreign voracious masculinity he has become entranced with, and his self insert self-assuridly putting an end to this handsome yet uncontrollable monster.
Back to the original premise of this thread, I believe that such mental regidity and narrow definitions of masculinity as held by the Trump crowd are telling of an insecurity and fragility that requires vast amounts of consumerism to maintain. Contrasted with Bram Stoker's depictions (Even of the cowboy in the narrative) or Walt Whitman's infamous example, we have a pallid, sad little construct of masculinity that I pity is so common.
From the article: BTW, this is from POLITICO's Masculinity issue. Other articles from the issue: The Crisis Over American Manhood Is Really Code for Something Else - POLITICO...
From the article:
A new POLITICO Magazine/IPSOS poll shows that people have very different ideas on the solutions to the challenges facing men and boys. And those differences are affecting how theyissue.
BTW, this is from POLITICO's Masculinity issue. Other articles from the issue:
This is such a boring topic to me. People sitting around trying to figure out what masculinity is or isn't seems like such a waste of time.
Just be a decent person and treat others with respect. Beyond that, do whatever you want. Like riding horses and shooting guns and chewing tobacco? Go nuts. Want to wear a dress? Hope you find one that is flattering and makes you feel good.
I'll never understand people. "What is a man?" Who cares?
Lots of people care because they believe traditional manhood is a foundational quality for a healthy society, family, etc.
The very definition of conservatism is the idea that we need to treasure and protect traditional values, regardless of their actual validity, because change is scary.
Conservatism vs progressivism is an eternal battle, not to be taken lightly.
Agreed. On top of that, part of the success of the alt right pipeline is that when insecure teenagers try and figure out what being a man is on the internet progressives simply give them a "who cares" whereas the alt right outright says, "Yes my friend, take my hand and I will tell you everything you need to do to be a real man".
Dracula already answered the question. Man is a miserable pile of secrets.
sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Honestly, I feel like Dracula is a great example for examining the shifting narratives of masculinity and masculine sexual identity.
Between Dracula and Dr. Helsing, their original incarnations and subsequent pop-culture depictions are quite telling of the society and times they're created in.
In the original incarnation, you have two versions of masculinity that are intriguing if you are only familiar with the pop-culture depictions.
The first version, Dracula, is an older, grizzled man, teeming with hair - thick white mustache and hairy palms. While he does get rejuvenated later in the story, this depiction of Dracula is an ancient masculinity - voracious, a predator of the mind, body, and soul, consuming his partners whole. This is a masculinity that is dominating and unyielding, a natural force devouring whatever it's gaze settles on, a slave to it's base desires. While normally composed, his basal nature bursts forth in various points of the novel.
The second, Dr. Helsing, contrasts our antagonist sharply. Clean shaven, well composed, a quite humorous inoffensive Dutch Renaissance man. From the narrative -
"He is a philosopher and a metaphysician, and one of the most advanced scientists of his day, and he has, I believe, an absolutely open mind. This, with an iron nerve, a temper of the ice-brook, and indomitable resolution, self-command, and toleration exalted from virtues to blessings, and the kindliest and truest heart that beats, these form his equipment for the noble work that he is doing for mankind, work both in theory and practice, for his views are as wide as his all-embracing sympathy."
— Letter From Dr Seward to Arthur Holmwood, chapter 9, Dracula
Contrast these depictions to pop-culture, and from my perspective we see the reverse. Dracula, a clean-shaven, reserved, plotting and restrained villain achieving his desires through a quiet calm. Van Helsing, a grizzled macho vampire hunter who's masculinity feels projected like a man screaming about his virility from the rooftops.
Take what you will from these wildly contrasting depictions, but I will say that the author's biases should be taken into account. It's believed Dracula is based upon Walt Whitman, American poet, and known to be particularly embracing of his own masculinity and sexual identity. Walt's speculative sexuality is infamous, as many men are speculated to have been his paramours, with even Oscar Wilde professing "I have the kiss of Walt Whitman still on my lips." in one of Oscar's letters to homosexual-rights activist George Cecil Ives.
Indeed, Bram Stoker was so captivated by Walt that he wrote love letters to the man unbidden, pouring his heart and soul to letters filled with a passion and yearning unrequited.
https://www.themarginalian.org/2019/01/09/bram-stoker-walt-whitman-letter/
I find that viewing history with a lens of modernity helps me view situations from the perspective of my contemporaries. In this context, the lens I find lends the original story hilariously enough to a self insert horror romance. Bram creating a ghastly spectre of foreign voracious masculinity he has become entranced with, and his self insert self-assuridly putting an end to this handsome yet uncontrollable monster.
Back to the original premise of this thread, I believe that such mental regidity and narrow definitions of masculinity as held by the Trump crowd are telling of an insecurity and fragility that requires vast amounts of consumerism to maintain. Contrasted with Bram Stoker's depictions (Even of the cowboy in the narrative) or Walt Whitman's infamous example, we have a pallid, sad little construct of masculinity that I pity is so common.
Matt Stone and Trey Parker also already answered this question
From the article:
BTW, this is from POLITICO's Masculinity issue. Other articles from the issue:
The Crisis Over American Manhood Is Really Code for Something Else - POLITICO https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/14/josh-hawley-masculinity-crisis-00105436
Portrait of a ‘Pink-Collar’ Working Man - POLITICO https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/14/modern-american-masculinity-00105619