5 votes

Islamic Jihad admits their rockets killed baby and pregnant woman

3 comments

  1. [2]
    alyaza Link
    i feel like we should point out that this is an alleged thing by the jerusalem post (not a confirmed thing like the current title is implying, although they might have changed it after you...

    i feel like we should point out that this is an alleged thing by the jerusalem post (not a confirmed thing like the current title is implying, although they might have changed it after you posted?) and they unfortunately do not seem to demonstrate their sourcing here, which makes double checking problematic since they're not exactly a neutral source in this whole affair themselves, but this is actually a bit of a moot point because this is actually not reporting on the same issue to begin with that has been bandied about here on tildes, but an entirely separate incident that took place on a different day in a different place with only similar circumstances.

    so, there have been two cases where a pregnant woman was killed in gaza in the past few days: one occurred on saturday, may 4th, involving the pregnant woman in the OP article, and one occurred on sunday, may 5th, which is the one i cited in the last thread.

    the saturday, may 4 incident is cited as having occurred to a 37 year old woman named falestine abu arar and her 14 month old relative. as near as i can tell, this took place in gaza city and killed four people. the IDF has officially disputed that this was done by a hamas rocket misfiring, and this is the crux of the JPost article.

    Al Jazeera gives the following details:

    Ibtessam Abu Arar, aunt of Siba, the 14-month old infant who died in the Israeli raid, said: "The Israeli plane fired a missile near the house and the shrapnel entered the house and hit the poor baby."
    Siba was being held in the lap of her pregnant aunt Falestine Abu Arar, 37, who was also struck. She died from her wounds hours later, the health ministry said in a statement.
    Earlier, it was mistakenly reported that Falestine was Siba's mother.
    The Israeli military denied responsibility for the two deaths, blaming a misfiring of a Hamas rocket.

    the sunday, may 5 incident, which is the one that was brought up in the last thread, is cited as having occurred in beit lahiya and having killed 33 year old amani al madhoun along with two men. no child is mentioned in the Times of Israel/AP slide on it:

    3 Gazans, including pregnant woman, said killed in Israeli airstrike
    Gaza’s Hamas-run Health Ministry says three Palestinians, including a pregnant woman, have been killed in an Israeli airstrike.
    The ministry says that Amani al-Madhoun, 33, was killed along with two men, one of them a relative. It says she was nine months pregnant.
    The airstrike occurred in the northern Gaza Strip town of Beit Lahiya. Further details were not immediately available.

    the IDF has not commented on this one to my knowledge, nor has it seemingly disputed what happened with this case.

    it's understandable that these two events have been confused, given the timeframe and the details, but this is not the issue we've been talking about, and with respect to the incident the article itself is talking about i think it's a bit disingenuous to treat the reporting here like it absolutely confirms it was a hamas rocket when we can't even see what or who they're using to support the notion that it was a hamas rocket that misfired (and JPost again do have their own biases worth bearing in mind). this is something that probably needs a bellingcat article, not what is functionally digital hearsay.

    9 votes
    1. Nmg (edited ) Link Parent
      I know I am breaking my oath to limit things to one comment, but I felt this was important. EDIT: I will make a new post about this The IDF recently released a report of who was killed.. Gazan...

      I know I am breaking my oath to limit things to one comment, but I felt this was important.


      EDIT: I will make a new post about this


      The IDF recently released a report of who was killed..

      Gazan Health Ministry reports 27 total deaths. The IDF is taking responsibility for 23 of them. The difference of four includes the two casualties which I have already mentioned the IDF does not take responsibility for, as well as an additional 2 that I have not personally investigated yet.

      The IDF counts 17 militants and 6 civilians among the ones it killed. You are right that the casualties include one pregnant women:

      Amani al-Madhoun, 33, Sister-in-law of Abd al-Rahim al-Madhoun, PIJ terrorist operative in the northern Gaza Strip

      The remaining 5 civilian casualties do indeed include two children, a four month old and a 12 year old. All casualties were related to militants who were being targetted.

      I don't think any civilians should have been killed. But I stand by my argument that the IDF response was not indiscriminate. More than 350 targetted missiles hit Gaza in response to the more than 600 indiscriminate missiles that Hamas and PIJ shot at Israel.

      Out of >350 bombings on a dense place like Gaza, There are only 23 deaths attributable to the IDF, and 74 percent (17/23) are militants. The remainder are unfortunately civilians.

      Personally, I think the IDF is responsibile for those deaths. The IDF spokespeople may spin it differently. But at least they admitted it was them. I think, for what they acheived, preventing more rockets from raining down on their cities, 6 casualties of collateral damage is acceptable. You, and, many people, obviously disagree. As a person personally impacted by the conflict, I really don't know what to think.

      3 votes
  2. Nmg (edited ) Link
    Originally reported by TPS, an Israeli Media NGO. Edit: Found Original article, which discusses sources/methodology. Jpost re-reported this, so please use this as the source of discussions. Edit...

    Originally reported by TPS, an Israeli Media NGO.


    Edit:

    Found Original article, which discusses sources/methodology. Jpost re-reported this, so please use this as the source of discussions.


    Edit 2:

    A few days ago, many mainstream media sources were echoing the Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry's claim that it was an Israeli missile. The IDF said it wasn't them. The TPS article is the latest contribution to the issue (everyone else is just re-reporting and editorializing the information). I don't read arabic, but can anyone verify that the screenshot in the TPS article verify what the article claims?


    Historically the IDF does keep count of civilian casualties in their operations.

    The fact that the media was misled doesn't surprise me. There may be more reporters per capita in Israel/Palestinian territories, but they all just parrot what each other say and worry about what sounds like a good news story rather than reporting the facts.

    I practically singlehandedly locked the last thread posted about a similar topic. So I am pretty much going to leave this as my only comment and shut up otherwise.

    1 vote