10 votes

What to do once we’ve defunded the police

9 comments

  1. [9]
    tempestoftruth
    Link
    ...

    The radical differences between these neighborhood assemblies and the public hearings we may be used to cannot be overemphasized. This wasn’t a meeting about priorities set by city hall. The very residents demanding answers were the ones who had proposed, debated, and decided on the programs in previous years’ meetings. They had a direct stake in these programs and their outcomes.

    ...

    What passes for democracy in the United States has long been an outsourcing of governance to small groups of people with specific interests and limited worldviews. But, little by little, in elections and in the streets, people are claiming the power that has been rightfully theirs all along ... Deep democracy requires us to participate in power, and to draw meaning from that participation. Few places contain more power than the public budget. It’s time for us all to participate. In defunding the police and reinvesting via participatory budgeting we will have the opportunity to do just that: participate, at last, in power.

    1. [2]
      joplin
      Link Parent
      While in this particular instance that sounds promising, I worry about the residents setting the agenda as much as I worry about city hall setting it. I look at what the residents around me post...

      The very residents demanding answers were the ones who had proposed, debated, and decided on the programs in previous years’ meetings.

      While in this particular instance that sounds promising, I worry about the residents setting the agenda as much as I worry about city hall setting it. I look at what the residents around me post on NextDoor and Facebook and am not sure residents will generally be any better than city hall at deciding priorities.

      4 votes
      1. tempestoftruth
        Link Parent
        The article explores the example of the Brazilian city of Porto Alegre in-depth, noting that It's fair to have concerns about how successful participatory budgeting could be. I agree that handing...

        The article explores the example of the Brazilian city of Porto Alegre in-depth, noting that

        For the first few years, the participatory budgeting process in Porto Alegre was messy and unwieldy

        It's fair to have concerns about how successful participatory budgeting could be. I agree that handing over total, or even majority, control of the budget to the people without a transitional period would result in poor outcomes. It's important to note, though, that most proposals in the United States start with the community having control over just a small fraction of the budget. By starting small, communities can get used to hearing from expert feedback and educating themselves on accessible topics, and from there, take on a greater share of the responsibilities of governing.

        3 votes
    2. [6]
      zoid
      Link Parent
      What fascinates me most about the "defund the police" crowd is that they're the same people that want Authoritarian Socialism. How do they intend to enforce their ideologies upon the people...

      What fascinates me most about the "defund the police" crowd is that they're the same people that want Authoritarian Socialism. How do they intend to enforce their ideologies upon the people without the very agencies tasked with handling such tasks?

      1 vote
      1. Turtle
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think the answer is that they clearly aren't the people who want authoritarian socialism? unless you have a source for that. IMO whenever people say things like "The same people who do/say/verb...

        I think the answer is that they clearly aren't the people who want authoritarian socialism? unless you have a source for that. IMO whenever people say things like "The same people who do/say/verb X are doing/saying/verbing Y. (Hypocrites) and or (Thus X is invalid)." where Y is antithetical to the ethos of X, they are often describing their exaggerated and distorted caricature of the people who do X, as presented by their respective media filter bubble, rather than reality. Whenever you find yourself thinking along these lines, I think it's a good idea to stop and consider whether there are actually a significant amount of people doing X and Y or if you're not simply being blinded by your biases.

        15 votes
      2. tempestoftruth
        Link Parent
        I am sure that there are some authoritarian socialists who are in favor of defunding the police, but I can't say I believe you're making a claim in good faith when you suggest that the people who...

        I am sure that there are some authoritarian socialists who are in favor of defunding the police, but I can't say I believe you're making a claim in good faith when you suggest that the people who want to defund the police are the same people who want authoritarian socialism.

        8 votes
      3. [3]
        mrbig
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        That’s a very large and diverse crowd. I don’t know how you can affirm that those groups are the same.

        That’s a very large and diverse crowd. I don’t know how you can affirm that those groups are the same.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          zoid
          Link Parent
          I’ve made a mistake in not only my verbiage, but I also poorly conveyed my intended message. When I say it fascinates me, I meant that literally, not to disparage said group(s). What I meant and...

          I’ve made a mistake in not only my verbiage, but I also poorly conveyed my intended message.

          When I say it fascinates me, I meant that literally, not to disparage said group(s). What I meant and what I said are quite obviously two separate things and for that I apologize.

          Those that support defunding the police that I’ve talked to personally in my local community also are in favor of Authoritarian Socialism. I did not mean to imply that anyone that supports defunding the police are in anyway related to specific socioeconomic policies or political parties.

          1 vote
          1. mrbig
            Link Parent
            Okay than. I may, of course, be wrong, but my impression is that, contrary to your personal experience, there are not many supporters of authoritarian socialism in the United States. Even among...

            Those that support defunding the police that I’ve talked to personally in my local community also are in favor of Authoritarian Socialism.

            Okay than. I may, of course, be wrong, but my impression is that, contrary to your personal experience, there are not many supporters of authoritarian socialism in the United States. Even among the progressive left.

            4 votes