13 votes

The FBI says ‘Boogaloo’ extremists bought 3D-printed machine gun parts

8 comments

  1. [8]
    AugustusFerdinand
    Link
    So as a firearm and 3D printing enthusiast fell free to ask questions about this if there's anything in the article you find confusing.

    So as a firearm and 3D printing enthusiast fell free to ask questions about this if there's anything in the article you find confusing.

    2 votes
    1. [7]
      MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      I know that as of a couple years ago printing the whole receiver didn't work so well because of the stresses put on it during firing, but it seems like this sidesteps the issue by having an easily...

      I know that as of a couple years ago printing the whole receiver didn't work so well because of the stresses put on it during firing, but it seems like this sidesteps the issue by having an easily replaceable part that converts a rifle from semi- to fully automatic? It seems like the punishment for making the auto-sear is already about as high as it can go and isn't really a deterrent. Outside of broader societal measures to reduce extremism or a banning of any gun that could be potentially modified (not happening, for so many reasons), is there anything that can really be done about this, or is broad access to fully automatic rifles going to just be something that's a background fact of extremism in the USA?

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        j3n
        Link Parent
        There's absolutely nothing that can be done about this. Making these parts isn't that hard for anyone with a very basic home machine shop. 3d printing does lower the barrier, but not nearly as...

        There's absolutely nothing that can be done about this. Making these parts isn't that hard for anyone with a very basic home machine shop. 3d printing does lower the barrier, but not nearly as much as people unfamiliar with firearms and machining tend to assume.

        6 votes
        1. [3]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          Ok, then this is continuation of a trend of broader access, but not really that much of a change, and mostly this guy was caught because he was advertising online with clear pictures of the...

          Ok, then this is continuation of a trend of broader access, but not really that much of a change, and mostly this guy was caught because he was advertising online with clear pictures of the illegal thing?

          1 vote
          1. j3n
            Link Parent
            Yes, that's pretty much it. I think the biggest change here is that 3d printing has led to a huge explosion of niche custom-printed things being sold online. If back in the 90s you saw someone...

            Yes, that's pretty much it. I think the biggest change here is that 3d printing has led to a huge explosion of niche custom-printed things being sold online. If back in the 90s you saw someone selling custom machined "wall hangers" in the back of firearms related magazines, that would have raised some eyebrows right away. These days, it's a lot more plausible that someone actually thinks they have the best wall hangers around and have set up a website to sell them.

            4 votes
          2. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. AugustusFerdinand
              Link Parent
              I'd ask that you don't confuse/attach one thing with another. "Fuel filters" (also known as solvent traps) are not suppressors, what they are (and they long predate these terrorists) is a legal...

              They all advertise that way. Silencers are advertised as "fuel filters" despite the image very clearly representing an illegal or restricted silencer.

              This is how the Boogaloo movement works. Everything is thinly coded.

              I'd ask that you don't confuse/attach one thing with another.

              "Fuel filters" (also known as solvent traps) are not suppressors, what they are (and they long predate these terrorists) is a legal way to prepare to make a suppressor yourself. Any law abiding citizen can create their own firearm for personal use so long as it does not break any existing laws. Due to a lack of definitions, or a desire for an umbrella term, a suppressor is a "firearm" in the eyes of the ATF and NFA. A fuel filter/solvent trap is not because the legal definition of a suppressor is (ignoring all the obvious aspects) something that has a "clear path for the projectile to pass through". The filters/traps are unfinished and do not have a clear path, they still need to be drilled out to finish them and until they do they are just a container no different than your reusable water bottle or plumbing fixtures at your hardware store of choice.

              Now it can be argued, and I'd be one to do so, that these items wouldn't exist if it weren't for two things. The first being the artificial scarcity and unnecessarily high prices for suppressors made by manufacturers; 95%+ are just a tube with some simple baffling and their design, materials, and construction do not justify their price. The second, related to the first and pertinent to the conversation, is the requirement by the ATF that you provide exacting specifications and design of the suppressor you wish to create yourself prior to doing so. Since it can take months (and for quite some time it was over a year) to get approval to create a suppressor it is difficult to justify doing the paperwork prior to having an almost complete product in your hands.

              Imagine it as if you had to apply for financing and insurance on a new car months or years prior to being able to buy one and your application had to include the exact make, model, year, and color of car. You do so, pay your fees, and once approved you find out that the car is no longer for sale and your license (called a stamp in regards to the suppressor) is now worthless because you cannot use it on any other car and you cannot get a refund for the fees you paid. No one would buy a new car if there is no guarantee that the car will be there when you've been approved to have it.

              Being that a suppressor only brings down the volume of some rounds to the point that they don't cause hearing loss, it is nothing more hearing protection same as earplugs and acoustic earmuffs. It does not "silence" the round as the original name would suggest, it is nowhere near what movies would have you believe, and the round is still quite loud and it is recommended that you still wear hearing protection when using them as I do.


              These terrorists do use thinly veiled language, but they have nothing to do with exercising the legal creation of highly taxed and regulated PPE.

              4 votes
      2. [2]
        AugustusFerdinand
        Link Parent
        The receiver issue has been generally solved. There are dozens of designs for both pistols and rifles that easily survive in the hundreds of rounds. While that is less than a traditionally made...

        I know that as of a couple years ago printing the whole receiver didn't work so well because of the stresses put on it during firing, but it seems like this sidesteps the issue by having an easily replaceable part that converts a rifle from semi- to fully automatic?

        1. The receiver issue has been generally solved. There are dozens of designs for both pistols and rifles that easily survive in the hundreds of rounds. While that is less than a traditionally made metal receiver, the 3D printed receiver only costs a few cents to make another one.

        2. A receiver itself does not determine if a firearm can be full auto or not. It is the components within it that determine such and typically there are few to no changes necessary in the receiver of any firearm to accommodate fully automatic fire. This piece sidesteps the issue of needing more expensive tools, along with the expertise of using them, to create a DIAS (drop in auto sear) that is typically made of metal. Just as you can sidestep the barrier to having art by finding an image you like online and printing it at home instead of learning how to art and making it yourself.

        It seems like the punishment for making the auto-sear is already about as high as it can go and isn't really a deterrent.

        The deterrent for creating one is 10 years in prison and forfeiture of your "right" to have firearms (although my friends and I have had fun trying to think of all the laws that were broken by him doing this and that list is long). Which is more than enough for most people that would be interested in one. The people interested in legally owning one are an infinitesimal number of firearm owners overall already and don't even make up a significant portion of actual gun enthusiasts. Like in any hobby there are those that take their interests to extremes and in gun circles that is those who collect full auto firearms. They tend to be very wealthy as even a "cheap" full auto firearm is in the near-as-makes-no-difference-$10,000 range and, hypocritically, tend to oppose the relaxing of the gun control as their collection is now an investment and if the NFA was removed or less restrictive the value of their assets would drop to nearly nothing. A legal DIAS will set any interested party about $30k.

        That said, these individuals are not gun enthusiasts, they are domestic terrorists that want maximum damage for minimum cost and are idiotic enough to buy it from someone else (who can and will sell them out to save their own skin) instead of purchasing a 3D printer and finding the readily available files to make their own.

        Outside of broader societal measures to reduce extremism or a banning of any gun that could be potentially modified (not happening, for so many reasons), is there anything that can really be done about this, or is broad access to fully automatic rifles going to just be something that's a background fact of extremism in the USA?

        I don't know if much more can be done; it has been tried and the government lost (attempted censorship of the files necessary to make DIAS and other firearm receivers/components). This is the unfortunate reality of extremist groups, laws have no meaning to them and so any legal deterrent will only impact already law abiding citizens.

        4 votes
        1. MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          Thanks for explaining in more depth. I appreciate the context.

          Thanks for explaining in more depth. I appreciate the context.

          1 vote