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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar Link ParentMore than any other character I think Cersei changed the most from books to show. For the Cersei of the books, yes, I agree with you. It was the ultimate act of narcissism. Book Cersei really only...More than any other character I think Cersei changed the most from books to show.
For the Cersei of the books, yes, I agree with you. It was the ultimate act of narcissism. Book Cersei really only cares about herself. Everything and everyone she values are just extensions of herself—Jaime, her children, her approval-seeking from daddy, wanting to preserve and expand the Lannister legacy to please him—it’s all just me, me, me.
Show Cersei I find way more complex than that. She’s one of my favorite characters for that reason. On one level, yes, she is also narcissistic and selfish.
But I believe her love for her children and Jaime are genuine. And not just her children with Jaime, either.
Book Cersei aborted Robert’s children and took every precaution not to give him a trueborn heir. After arranging his death, she ruthlessly had all his bastards murdered. And even when he was alive, she threatened to kill his eldest daughter, Mya Stone, should he bring her to the capital like he wanted.
Show Cersei could not be more different. One of my favorite scenes from S1 is when she visits Catelyn at Bran’s bedside, and tells her the story of how she lost the black-haired beauty. Her grief is genuine. She wanted that child, the bird without feathers, and she raged when they took the lifeless body from her. Robert pounded his fists bloody against the walls, but when she needed him, he held her and they mourned their son together.
Totally night and day from her book incarnation, right? Not only does she not abort Robert’s baby, losing that child is one of the most traumatic events of her life.
Years later she and Robert drink together, and she asks him if he could have ever loved her. And she confesses that she felt something for him, even after they’d lost their son, for quite a while actually.
Book Cersei always loathed Robert. It was Rhaegar she wanted to marry, never him. The night before her wedding she fucks Jaime just to deny Robert his rights even before the marriage was consummated. She’s motivated by pure hateful spite—even though she’s also power-seeking, desperate to be queen.
It’s self-destructive and stupid. Cersei’s power comes from her marriage to Robert, and yet in the books she undermines her own marriage from the outset.
Meanwhile Show Cersei honestly tries to make her marriage work. Even after Robert drunkenly whispers Lyanna in her ear when he’s inside her for the first time, she still tries to do her duty by her husband, still tries to give him a son.
And most consequentially—Show Cersei never murders the bastards. In her conversation with Tyrion, the show establishes that that was fully Joffrey’s act, Cersei just assumed the blame for it.
I love this change.
Not only is it more in line with Joffrey’s sadism to commit such a heinous act, ripping babies from their mother’s arms and killing them in front of them (Barra at Littlefinger’s brothel) it also shows the lengths Cersei is ready to go to in order to protect her offspring.
She knows Joffrey is evil. She’s known that since he cut the kittens out of the kitchen cat when he was barely a toddler. But she will do anything to hide his evil from the world, if that will secure his rule. Even if that means she takes on the role of the villain, dirtying her own reputation so her son can keep his secrets a little while longer.
Meanwhile Robert abdicates all responsibility for his children’s upbringing. In the books, this is because Cersei forbids him from disciplining his own children, which is beyond stupid. When Joffrey brings Robert the dead kittens with a smile on his face, Robert slaps him so hard he knocks his baby teeth out. And Cersei threatens to kill him in his sleep if he ever does it again.
But that’s exactly what that little psychopath needed. Brutal discipline. A stern father figure to put the fear of the gods into him. Book Cersei’s coddling just made Joffrey even more of a monster than he already was.
In the show Robert just doesn’t give a damn, which is on him.
And Jaime is no help, either. He never tries to discipline his kids, either, book or show. He never tries to be a father to any of them, except Myrcella just before her death.
So I have sympathy for Cersei as a de facto single mom—in her show incarnation, that is. There she would have welcomed the help, whereas in the books she deliberately pushed it away.
In Cersei’s drunken confessions to Sansa at the Blackwater, and in Tywin’s scenes with Arya at Harrenhal, we learn what Cersei was like as a girl. Willful and adventurous, she wanted to do everything Jaime would do, learning how to wield sword and lance, learning to fight instead of learning to please. She’s an Arya forced to live like a Sansa, and the repression poisoned her character, made her bitter and twisted.
Tywin even states this boldly: he tells Arya she reminds him of his daughter.
It’s a totally different take on the queen that’s missing from the books, and so much more interesting psychologically. No wonder she’s so warped. She’s been forced to live a lie her whole life.
Once again, in the later seasons, the distinction blurs. Lena Headey was basically given nothing to do in S8, though her character degradation began long before that. Such a waste of a talented actress and an intriguing character.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar Link ParentWhite Walkers shatter into ice when you kill them. So how is Arya supposed to take their face? You are far from the only person to suggest this plot line over the years, and I never gave it much...Maybe Arya takes the face of a white walker and spends months living behind enemy lines. She can still have the cool knife drop call back kill scene, but instead of just the single scene of her sneaking around the library like Metal Gear, it's going to be a scene, or several in every episode.
White Walkers shatter into ice when you kill them.
So how is Arya supposed to take their face?
You are far from the only person to suggest this plot line over the years, and I never gave it much thought until I went back to check, but… yeah, they establish this all the way back with Sam the Slayer. White Walkers leave no corpses behind for Faceless Men to work with.
To be clear, I agree that Arya’s Faceless Men training should have paid off more in S8—but taking a White Walker’s face specifically doesn’t make sense.
Besides, there’s more to Arya than shapeshifting. She learned how to disappear into a slew of new identities just by changing her clothes, how she carried herself, her manner of speaking—just like Varys learned when he joined a group of mummers before he was cut.
Arya learned how to tail people and discover their secrets. She was a cutpurse. (This is also just like Varys’ adolescence.)
She learned a variety of combat techniques with all manner of weapons.
She learned to endure pain. Hunger. Exposure to the elements.
She was blinded, and taught how to survive and fight in the dark. She remained blind until darkness was as sweet to her as light. Next the FM were going to take her hearing, and then her legs so she’d have to crawl—it doesn’t look like her training will get that far in the books, though, similar to the show.
Arya was taught the properties of all manner of poisons. (Similar to Oberyn Martell, that’s what he studied at the Citadel, and how he killed the Mountain with his poisoned blade even though his head was crushed like a grape.)
She’s fluent in Braavosi and knows some High Valyrian.
And like her sister Sansa, Arya was taught how to lie.
Sansa learned politics and statecraft from Cersei, Margaery, Tyrion and Littlefinger.
Arya was cupbearer to Tywin Lannister (or Ramsay Bolton in the books, also an accomplished tactician.) And she played the Game of Faces with the Waif and Jaqen H’Ghar. She is now a preternaturally flawless lie detector. And she can lie perfectly in turn.
And she’s also the second best warg in the Stark family after Bran. Book Arya wargs Nymeria to drag her mother’s corpse from the river, and she kills many Lannisters and Freys with her wolf pack. In Braavos she wargs cats to pass the FM blindness test.
The show seems to have dropped Arya’s warging entirely (as well as Jon’s, for that matter) but they both have the latent ability.
So Arya Stark has acquired a shitton of useful skills over the years—few of which paid off in S8. The face-taking is really just the tip of the iceberg.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar Link ParentYES. As buddies, that relationship really worked. As a drunken one night stand, it was exploitative and cheap. For Brienne, I really did prefer Tormund for her. I know it’s shownly and for comic...The friendship between Brienne and Jamie was also great (and I think would have been stronger without the unrequited love element).
YES.
As buddies, that relationship really worked.
As a drunken one night stand, it was exploitative and cheap.
For Brienne, I really did prefer Tormund for her. I know it’s shownly and for comic relief more than anything, but I think Tormund genuinely admired and loved her.
Free Folk culture values strength above all, in women and men. So from Tormund’s perspective, Brienne really was the most beautiful woman he’d ever seen.
Perhaps it was one-sided, but that’s because Brienne barely knew him. She never gave him a chance, she was so hung up on Jaime. 🙄
That’s Brienne’s pattern. She falls for guys who are emotionally unavailable. Renly or Jaime, they’re both in love with other people.
Also this is probably the hottest of my hot takes, lol, but the only incest ship I enjoy in ASOIAF is Jaime and Cersei. I see it as GRRM’s take on Lancelot and Guinevere, and in that light it really works for me. The chivalric ideal of a knight’s hopeless love for his unavailable queen, the angst, the betrayal. This is classic genre stuff for a medieval fantasy setting. It’s just… 👌
I suppose Robert is King Arthur in that analogy, which is laughable I know, but I have a soft spot for Bobby B. To paraphrase what I said earlier, I see him as a failed version of Gendry. He has his moments where you see the greatness he might have been, if only he’d had a firmer hand in his upbringing, if only he had learned self control.
Specifically, I’m thinking of his generosity, his willingness to forgive and forget, his eagerness to make friends where others (e.g., his brother Stannis) would hold grudges and make enemies. Robert forgave the Storm Lords who rose against him at the beginning of his Rebellion and won them over to his side. (Stannis urged Robert to execute them, but Robert ignored him.) Those lords fought bravely for Robert after he converted them, I think most of them died fighting for him. He inspired real love and devotion.
When Balon Greyjoy rose against him, again he could have executed him for treason. But he didn’t, because he admired Balon’s stubborn courage, how fiercely he fought. He forced him to bend the knee, surrender and give his last remaining son to Ned Stark to raise as his ward and implicit hostage—but he let Balon and his wife and daughter live. He showed mercy.
He was always generous to the smallfolk. He loved tourneys and feasts, literally spreading his wealth around to make the common people fat and happy. They truly loved Robert, he brought the good times, he made the economy boom. It was all financed through horrible deficit spending, he ran the kingdom into enormous debt—but he just loved making people happy. And you know what? He actually spent less money than the Lannisters. Wars swallow gold like a pit in the earth. All his silly entertainments stimulated the economy, whereas the Lannisters’ wars brought only death, suffering and famine.
The average person in Westeros would mourn Baratheon rule, I think. It’s the closest to Camelot they’d had in many years, maybe not since Aegon V.
The worst thing about him was his blind hatred, his insatiable rage for anyone Targaryen. But we know that’s motivated by losing the love of his life, and I find that tragic and beautiful in its way. His love for Lyanna was deluded and unrequited, but it was real for him. Decades later, he never fails to honor her memory.
And in dying he tried to rescind his death warrant on Daenerys. Let the girl live.
Bobby B was so close to being a good king. He just let his personal demons get the best of him.
As for Jaime, what a fabulous character he was. In his heart he was like Arya—he aspired to be a true knight like his idol Arthur Dayne (changed to Barristan Selmy for the show.)
He was put in an impossible position when the Mad King ordered him to bring him his own father’s head, and in breaking his Kingsguard oath and slaying Aerys, he also saved the entire population of King’s Landing from dying in wildfire, postponing the apocalypse until the Mad King’s daughter finished what her father started…
Robert pardoned Jaime, too, and Barristan Selmy, and allowed them to keep their positions on the Kingsguard.
Jaime became a dirty cloak, the Kingslayer, and outwardly he pretended not to care, but we saw with Brienne how distraught he was for his lost honor. How he wanted to be remembered not as an oathbreaker, but as an Oathkeeper, the name he gives the sword he entrusts to Brienne to keep Catelyn’s daughters safe, and keep her promise, as he had hoped to keep his.
The way he grew to recognize Brienne’s virtues, how she embodied the chivalric ideals that had once been his, how he encouraged her to be the knight he wished he could have been—that was all great.
Their relationship evolved from meanspirited ridicule to mutual respect and genuine admiration. It was another variation on the teacher-student dynamic that ASOIAF also does very well.
Usually it’s wholesome, like Jaime and Brienne grew to be, and Brienne and Pod were from the beginning. Or Arya and her many, many mentors.
But even when it’s not (Cersei and Sansa, Littlefinger and Sansa) it’s still quality drama.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar Link ParentWell, thank you. You’re very kind. :) Lol, yeah. I don’t know why incest is such a recurring theme in his work. I guess he does it for the shock value. Arya was spared that thankfully, but Jon...Well, thank you. You’re very kind. :)
I’m so glad Martin abandoned his original plan for her. Yikes
Lol, yeah. I don’t know why incest is such a recurring theme in his work. I guess he does it for the shock value.
Arya was spared that thankfully, but Jon wasn’t. Yet another failing of S7 and S8 was the Jonerys relationship. Both the actors were really not into it. They’d known each other for years, I believe Emilia even attended Kit’s wedding, they thought of each other as family, and you could really tell. The lack of chemistry translated on the screen.
You contrast that with Jon and Ygritte, for example, where the actors were genuinely falling in love with each other to the extent that they’re now married with kids—it’s like night and day.
Of course real life shouldn’t affect the performance, but how can it not? Actors are human, too.
I don’t want to be too much of a Debbie Downer, though. There is one part of the series I thought was a massive improvement on the books, and that’s Arya’s time at Harrenhal serving as Tywin’s cupbearer. I loved every scene they had together, definitely the highlight of that season.
I also much preferred the show version of Sandor’s fatherly love for Arya, which is more developed onscreen than it was in the books. And the climax during the Long Night, when Sandor is routing like he did at the Blackwater because of the fire—but then he sees Arya is in trouble and goes back to save his little girl!
Just wonderful. He overcomes his most primal fear for love of her. It’s perfect.
This feels like an inadequate response compared to your long and detailed one! I loved reading your insights, thank you.
Not at all! Your response was lovely.
I enjoy going on a GOT / ASOIAF rant every now and then, so thank you for indulging me.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar (edited )Link ParentHaha, that’s like the ultimate compliment followed by the ultimate insult! Well, much like the show, it’s best to focus on the first half and blissfully forget the second, so thanks. 😉 And that’s...Are you George Martin or either of the show runners??
Haha, that’s like the ultimate compliment followed by the ultimate insult!
Well, much like the show, it’s best to focus on the first half and blissfully forget the second, so thanks. 😉
Because I don’t think anyone else got that from the show. I certainly didn’t.
And that’s not your fault. It’s impossible to discern unless you’ve read the books, or at least have some familiarity with the lore.
I’m not sure that Bloodraven’s name is even mentioned on the show. We got precious little backstory from the Three-Eyed Raven himself—I remember he said something like, I was a man, too, once. There was a brother I loved, a brother I hated, a woman I lost.
But that’s it. If you’ve only seen the show, how could you know he was referring to Daemon Blackfyre (the brother he loved) Bittersteel (the brother he hated) Shiera Seastar (the woman he lost)?
Were the Blackfyre Rebellions even mentioned on the show? Or the Great Council and the dishonor of Brynden’s last act as Hand? No.
Even Aegon V isn’t mentioned directly. At most Joffrey references him obliquely as he’s flipping through the pages of the White Book, where all the deeds of the Kingsguard are recorded. (We see it again in the finale, with Brienne writing down Jaime’s legacy.) Joffrey pauses on Dunk’s page, his adventures as Dunk and Egg (Egg would grow up to become Aegon V.)
And I’m sure somewhere in S1 someone mentioned Robert’s claim to the throne, by conquest, obviously, but also via his descent from Aegon V: through his daughter Princess Rhaelle, her son Steffon, then Robert and his brothers.
And that’s it. I think that’s all you get of Bloodraven and his whole time period. It’s just not enough to piece it all together, and that’s firmly on D&D, not the viewers.
Hopefully if GRRM ever finishes his series (a big if, I know) Bran’s status as a vessel for Bloodraven will be made more clear.
I couldn’t believe Bran ended up being King - I hated that more than any other part of season 8.
When Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran’s actor) received that script, he honestly thought it was a joke.
I feel the same. That final Great Council scene was the absolute worst of the whole show, imo.
Sure, the Long Night was a huge disappointment. But at its heart I firmly believe that this series is about people. Politics and the endless struggle for power, yes, but also what motivates people, or as GRRM puts it: the human heart at war with itself.
The supernatural stuff? It’s window dressing to move the plot forward. Even Bran’s training to become the Three-Eyed Raven is just an excuse to include lots of flashbacks to the past, filling out the lore and character backstories.
I know that’s a controversial opinion. Even in this thread someone voiced the majority view that the politics were a distraction and the real fight was between the living and the dead, etc.
But I see it exactly opposite.
Did you know that in the original draft of ASOIAF there weren’t even dragons? (More like A Song of Ice, hold the fire, amirite?) GRRM had to be convinced by a friend to include them. He mentions it in one of his dedications.
So Daenerys’ whole arc? An afterthought. And with it you can probably throw in all of House Targaryen, which is ironic since that family has pretty much taken over the whole fandom, House of the Dragon is the successor series, etc.
But in its original form, the story was all about the Starks. Jon at the Wall; widowed Cat fleeing a fallen Winterfell with Arya and Bran; Jon being honor bound to refuse them sanctuary because the Night’s Watch does not take part in the wars of the Realm. So Arya having to fight to protect her family instead. In the end it was she who defeats the Big Bad.
And of course because this is GRRM, when they reunite Jon realizes he has fallen in love with Arya, and she returns his love. ಠ_ಠ
Tyrion is also there, and is romantically involved with Arya as well. I believe it was a forced political marriage. That’s all I remember, it’s been a while since I read the synopsis…
Anyway you can see where the other characters developed to flesh things out. Arya was effectively split into Arya and Sansa, with Sansa given the forced marriage to Tyrion and all the political intrigue down in King’s Landing.
(There’s even a meta speech by Ned commenting on this fact—Sansa and Arya may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through their hearts and they need each other, just like he needs both his daughters. It’s touching and maybe my favorite quote from the whole series—but it also describes the literal creation of Arya and Sansa, a character split in two.)
Arya as the savior was kept, and her romance with Jon was thankfully transferred to Gendry, who is very much the Southron version of Jon (bastard son of a highborn—a king this time, even higher than Ned Stark’s assumed parentage of Jon Snow; a good person who rises through his own hard work and strength of character.)
Gendry represents everything his father might have been, had Robert not been indulged and spoiled his whole life. He is the very best of House Baratheon, with Stannis’ discipline, Renly’s kindness, and Robert’s strength, courage and magnanimity.
And just as Robert’s whole life was dominated by his hopeless infatuation with Lyanna Stark, and his all-consuming hatred for Rhaegar and by extension, all Targaryens—the love triangle is reconstituted in Gendry’s quiet love for Arya. As her social inferior he can never reveal it or act on it, and in the books there is another obstacle in Ned Dayne, who bares some resemblance to Rhaegar Targaryen. Arya and Gendry themselves are uncannily identical to Lyanna and Robert, a fact which is noted by several POV characters, so the whole drama becomes like a refrain of a song, only this time the relationship is grounded in friendship and solidarity, surviving terrible hardships together, unlike the superficiality of her aunt and his father’s political betrothal.
Dune Digression
It also reminds me of the gholas from Dune, where characters like Duncan Idaho are resurrected and pursue the love interests they were denied in previous lives. GRRM is a Frank Herbert fan, and there are more than a few allusions in Dorne to the Dune universe, so I don’t think that’s totally off-base. Maybe an unconscious influence?
For that matter you could even argue that, in the end, Bloodraven has made himself God Emperor of Westeros, ushering in a new age of peace and prosperity through oppressive stagnation and totalitarian rule.
In the books Arya is drawn to Gendry because he reminds her of her brothers. She’s homesick, missing Jon terribly most of all, and Gendry comforts her. She starts to build a new family, a new pack in the South with Gendry, Hot Pie, Lommy Greenhands and Weasel; only for them all to be taken from her, one by one, just like she lost her father, sister, Syrio, Jory and all their household in King’s Landing; and Mycah and Nymeria before that; which repeats again when she loses her mother and Robb at the Red Wedding, narrowly escaping with the Hound. Only to lose him later, her captor turned protector and ultimately, her surrogate father and last known tie to Westeros.
Arya’s arc is all about love and family, how it’s ripped from her again and again, how she copes by first trying to rebuild and then losing hope, shedding her identity and giving herself over to her quest for vengeance. In the final season I wanted to see her complete her arc, realize that it was home and family she always wanted, that vengeance is self-destructive, and to recover from her loss of self as a Faceless Man and resume her identity as Arya Stark and all that entails. Become her father’s daughter once again, the honorable savior, the true knight she was in her original inception.
The problem with the later seasons is, while they deliver on some of these points, it’s such a rushed jumble that none of the beats are given any time to breathe. The significance is lost.
Yes, Arya does defeat the Waif and reclaims her identity as she leaves Braavos, but these are merely words. When she returns to Westeros, her first act is Frey Pie, which was Lord Manderly’s revenge in the books, not Arya’s.
Similarly it is Lady Stoneheart, the resurrected Catelyn Stark who, with the help of the corrupted Brotherhood Without Banners, hangs every Frey and Lannister she can lay hands on—culminating in her near execution of Brienne and Pod. (For failing in her mission to trade Jaime Lannister for Arya and Sansa.)
In the show Lady Stoneheart was completely eliminated, and the Brotherhood Without Banners was repurposed for the Wight Hunt, possibly the dumbest idea Tyrion ever had, and that’s saying something. So much for the clever lion, huh? The only in-universe explanation is brain damage after decades of alcoholism.
Arya came home to Winterfell physically, but mentally she still had the mindset of a Faceless Man. She fulfills her destiny as the Hero of Winterfell, but pushes everyone who loves her away, running back South to kill Cersei. Sandor finally persuades her that life is more important than vengeance, she tries to save as many people as she can, culminating with that heartbreaking death of mother and child—but in the end she mounts a pale horse and rides off… to nowhere. She puts in a perfunctory appearance at the Great Council then announces she’s sailing West of Westeros, running away again. She’s never stopped running. It’s not triumphant or exciting as D&D suggest with the soundtrack, it’s just sad. Run, Weasel, run as far as you can, run and hide and never come back.
I could probably do this with each of the major characters, by the way. Of the whole lot, only Sansa got the ending she deserved. And I have objections to that one, too. (Harry the Heir, with Sweetrobin’s glow-up taking his place, however the impossibility of cementing her Vale + Riverlands alliances now that she’s placed herself and all the North outside of the Six Kingdoms. Also the precarious position of the North regarding their winter food stores, the tremendous loss of life they sustained during the Long Night, renewed enmity with Yara and the Ironborn, with no navy or army to speak of to fend them off, not until their numbers recover, which won’t be for another generation, at least. And then there’s the question of the succession. The girls are House Stark’s only shot at producing legitimate heirs. Sansa has experienced unspeakable sexual trauma and is unlikely to ever marry again, and Arya has just run off to drown herself in the Sunset Sea. If they both die heirless, doesn’t the North pass on to their younger brother, i.e., revert to Southron rule?)
And so on and so forth. With every major character, with every major plot point, you get the impression that D&D simply didn’t think it through.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar Link ParentEspecially since the Dothraki way of life is to raze cities, kill all the men, and take the women and children as slaves—slaves which they then turn around and trade to the Ghiscari in Meereen,...The Dothraki would most definitely get stir crazy. Perhaps a lot of fights would break out between them and the Northmen, or the Unsullied.
Especially since the Dothraki way of life is to raze cities, kill all the men, and take the women and children as slaves—slaves which they then turn around and trade to the Ghiscari in Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor—where the Masters castrate little boys, creating the next generation of Unsullied.
In other words, it is highly likely that at least some of those Unsullied were first taken as slave by the Dothraki tribes they were forced to fight alongside in service of Daenerys.
Former slaves and former slave-takers sharing the same camp? And it never results in any conflict?
Such a disappointment. Just one of many in S8, of course, but I think it really shows how little thought D&D put into these characters and this world, failing to connect the dots.
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Comment on How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely? in ~tv
WandersFar LinkMake Bran’s heel turn explicit. The pieces are there, perhaps more clearly in the books than in the show, but it really needed to be made more obvious that the entity that returned from beyond the...How would you salvage the disaster conclusion of GoT?
Make Bran’s heel turn explicit.
The pieces are there, perhaps more clearly in the books than in the show, but it really needed to be made more obvious that the entity that returned from beyond the Wall was not Bran Stark, but Bloodraven possessing his body, much like Bran possessed Hodor.
And just as Varamyr tried to possess Thistle in the books. That attempt was unsuccessful because Varamyr was not as gifted as Bran, and Thistle, as a fierce spearwife, was far more independent and strong-willed than sweet-natured, gentle and trusting Hodor—but nonetheless Varamyr’s attempt at a human Second Life establishes that it’s a possibility for powerful wargs. And Bloodraven was the most powerful warg of all. QED, His last act in his original body was tricking Bran into letting him in, becoming the unwitting host for his Second Life.
Bran refers to himself as the Three-Eyed Raven and corrects Meera Reed that he’s not Bran anymore, not really—but those little hints were not enough. Most viewers overlooked them or didn’t grasp their significance, which makes S8 impossible to rationalize otherwise.
But if we start with the premise that “Bran” is no longer the sweet kid he used to be, that that character is effectively dead or at least in a horrific “locked-in” state, unable to control the actions of his own body (as we saw from Hodor’s horror whenever Bran took him) then it all starts to make sense.
Bloodraven (AKA Brynden Rivers) was a notoriously unscrupulous, power-hungry tyrant that ended the Blackfyre Rebellions by destroying the credit of the Throne. (He promised safe passage to a Blackfyre claimant and then executed him so Aegon V could be crowned. Thus Aegon V’s first act as king was banishing Bloodraven to the Wall to restore the good name of the Realm.)
Bloodraven held many titles during his life and wielded enormous power, but he’s perhaps most famous for his role as Master of Whisperers, using his warging ability to spy on everyone in Westeros using animals, especially ravens. Thus the old riddle: How many eyes does Bloodraven have? A thousand (the ravens) and one (his one surviving eye after he lost the other in battle.)
And after Bloodraven went to the Wall, rising to the rank of Lord Commander, ranging far into the True North and eventually undergoing the process we saw Bran go through in the series, becoming the Three-Eyed Raven—what did he do? Continue to spy on all of Westeros, only now in the past as well. Whether human or supernatural, Bloodraven has always had the same MO: espionage and manipulation.
But he could not wield power from under a tree. And so he lures Bran Stark to him with the false promise that he can help him walk again, he manipulates the dreams of Jojen Reed and lets him die all to serve that end—so that he can possess a new young body, thereby cheating death yet again so he can go south and set in motion a chain of events that ends with him ruling Westeros—but not from the shadows this time, not as a Small Council member pulling strings, but out in the open, as king himself. It’s been his ambition for years before the series proper even began.
Everything that happens in S8 is the product of Bloodraven’s manipulations. He needed various claimants to the Throne to take themselves out, and he pushed them, working on their insecurities, their character flaws which he’s studied in detail, lying beneath that tree all those years, plotting, so he knew exactly which secrets to reveal, which ideas to plant, which buttons to push, to make all his rivals fall apart.
Because Bran Stark has no credible claim to anything, except Lord of Winterfell, which Bloodraven explicitly rejects! His ambitions are far loftier. I can’t be the lord of anything, he says. But he becomes Lord of the Six Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm—because everyone was exactly where they needed to be, like pieces carefully arranged on a cyvasse board.
The only way Bloodraven is seating his crippled ass on that Throne is via another Great Council ruling, much like the one he manipulated decades ago to crown Aegon V king and wipe out the last of the Blackfyres.
This is what he does, he is the ultimate schemer, putting all the others we’ve watched during the series to shame—Baelish, Varys, Pycelle? No, Brynden was the original magnificent bastard, the grandaddy of them all.
Viewing S8 through this lens, we see why Jon had to be informed of his true parentage, why Dany reacted with such paranoia and fear, why Jon then turned to his sisters for support and guidance, why Sansa’s doubts about Dany’s stability were thus confirmed, and so why she offered Tyrion her brother as a better alternative. Why Tyrion then shared the secret with one of his few remaining friends, looking for advice, and why Varys then turned around and used that information as he always has done, trying to secure the best outcome for the Realm.
It’s a domino effect, one step leading to the other, but it’s all instigated by Bran insisting that Sam tell Jon the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna. Without that revelation, much of the plot of S8 does not happen.
And if we accept Bloodraven at his word when he tells Jon he was exactly where he was supposed to be, then Bloodraven foresaw the Fall of King’s Landing.
That is to say, he knew Dany’s mental breakdown would inevitably result in the genocide of half a million people, and he carried his plan out anyway. That was an acceptable loss, so long as the net result was his election as king.
In other words, GoT ends with the bad guy winning after all, which is very much in line with the series as a whole, where the most ambitious schemers profit while the good and noble are cut down long before their time.
The ending isn’t completely nihilistic—Sansa still rules an independent North, in theory free from Bran’s nefarious influence—but as Bran’s actor himself put it, the rest of Westeros is now effectively a surveillance state. Bloodraven has become Big Brother.
Yeah, for the most part the show only explored her combat training.
In the books, she’s learned some water dancing with Syrio Forel, some archery tips from Anguy, brawling with the Hound, the finger knife from Red Roggo, poisons from the Waif… and I think that’s it. No quarterstaff yet, although she learned to navigate with a stick and defend herself if need be when she was Blind Beth. I think she relied more on her secreted knives, though, so it’s still not a good 1:1 for the show’s quarterstaff scenes.
But I suppose we’ll see her level up with staffs and spears off-page or something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The combat skills are almost incidental, though. The underlying theme is her soft skill development. The bits of wisdom she picks up from all her teachers, along with the practical survival skills, that shape the person she’s becoming. It’s a Bildungsroman.
To a certain extent you could say that about all the Stark children, they all have their version of coming-of-age. But it’s not the consistent driving force of their narrative like it is with Arya.
Jon has his learning period when he first joins the Night’s Watch—but his ascent to Lord Commander is rapid, and from then on he’s acting with the same authority as Mormont.
Similarly Robb stops being a boy the moment Ilyn Payne takes Ned’s head. He is the King in the North, waging a military campaign, leading men, and condemning them to their deaths.
Bran does have a learning process, but it’s mostly passive, watching the lives of other people. His supernatural powers are continually growing, so there’s that. But he has nowhere near the breadth of lessons and experiences that his sisters have.
Rickon is basically feral, he’s been deprived of most education, beyond whatever Osha is teaching him in Skagos. Little man’s off riding unicorns for all we know.
The only sibling who’s probably had as many lessons as Arya is Sansa, and even she is more of a woman than a girl now. The books are at the point where in the show Littlefinger made the colossal blunder of selling her to the Boltons. Petyr Baelish is way smarter than that—in the books, he’s arranging a match for her to handsome playboy Harry the Heir, who will inherit the Eyrie if and when Robin Arryn dies—an untimely demise Littlefinger would be happy to help along, just as he killed Robin’s mother Lysa. The tension is whether Sansa will allow Baelish to murder her little cousin so she can marry a handsome young man and become Lady of the Vale; or whether she’ll use this opportunity to unmask Littlefinger and avenge her family, as she did in the show when he tried to turn her against her sister. Presently she’s going along with it, and doing a Margaery on Harry, charming him and manipulating him to fall in love with her. When Littlefinger’s murderous intent is made more clear, however… I expect she’ll save Robin, denounce Littlefinger, and acquire the Vale Knights anyway, which will help her retake Winterfell.
But back to Arya. In the epilogue of the last published book, Varys tells the dying Kevan Lannister about his ideal king.
As to who Aegon is… That would take a lot of explaining, lol. Suffice it to say this character did not make it onscreen, along with the whole cast of characters that surrounds him, and his entire subplot. But it hardly matters, because Aegon is an obvious red herring.
Much like Jon Snow.Most of the fandom thinks he’s a fake, and it seems inevitable that this kid is doomed. The only question is whether the Lannisters crush him, or Daenerys’ dragons consume him. (Probably the latter.)But I think that in this speech Varys outlines what most people—and probably Martin himself—would consider the ideal traits in a ruler. And as I read it, all I could think was: He’s describing Arya.
Arya has always wanted to be a knight, and she’s been trained in arms. And at Winterfell she received the foundation of a noble’s education.
She reads and writes, she’s particularly good at math, and she speaks several tongues (Common, Braavosi, High Valyrian).
She has studied under Maester Luwin at Winterfell and Septa Mordane in King’s Landing, who also instructed her in the mysteries of the Faith.
I don’t recall poetry per se, but she’s listened to the songs of Tom of Sevenstreams, Anguy’s marcher ballads, Dareon’s love songs. She even inspired a song herself, My Featherbed.
She’s learned a ton of history from all sorts of people—off the top of my head she gets a retelling of the Battle of the Bells from Harwin, the foundation of Braavos from the Kindly Man, the Valyrian descent of the Black Pearl from Merry. She’s heard the prophecies of the Ghost of High Heart and Yna the one-eyed maegi.
She has lived with all sorts of smallfolk, not just fisherfolk, but if you’re being picky, Varys, yes, she has specifically lived with Brusco the fishmonger, loading crates of fish with his sons until her back ached and helping them launch their boat down the canals. She’s sold oysters, clams, and cockles as well as any of Brusco’s daughters.
She befriends and charms nearly everyone she meets, from orphan boys to soldiers to sailors to whores to the King of Seals and the Black Pearl herself.
She’s definitely worked with her hands, scrubbing castle steps, plucking chickens, fetching and carrying water, serving meals and carrying messages as a cupbearer, cleaning and sewing up wounds, tending horses, stripping and washing corpses, chopping vegetables while blind, and a dozen other menial tasks. She’s even done a turn as an actress.
And yes, she definitely knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Few characters have endured that suffering as intensely and as often as she has.
Unlike Tommen, Arya was never taught that anything, let alone kingship, was her right. Her entire journey has been about sacrifice and abnegation, she’s given up everything, even her own name.
She has always put other people first, risking her life for her friends and even perfect strangers (Weasel, Sam) on multiple occasions.
And she has an innate sense of justice, informed by watching her father administer the law, first as Warden of the North, and then as Hand of the King. She has learned from his example—and his naivety.
Here’s the show’s version:
It’s the same sentiment, more or less, but without the specifics that parallel Arya’s arc so well.
By the way, I left one skill off from my earlier reply: Arya is a natural horsewoman, which is established from her very first chapter. She easily evades all the Brotherhood Without Banners save Harwin, the son of Winterfell’s master of horse who taught her how to ride in the first place.
This is yet another connection to her aunt Lyanna, who is described by Roose Bolton as half a horse herself, called a centaur by Barbrey Dustin—and is likely the true identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who defeated three opponents at the Tourney at Harrenhal in the lists, defending Howland Reed’s honor.
Mad King Aerys, living up to his name, thinks the laughing tree on the mystery knight’s shield is laughing at him, and is convinced this is some plot against him. He charges his son, Prince Rhaegar, to unmask the mystery knight.
The official story is that the mystery knight’s identity is never revealed, but what likely happened is that Rhaegar discovered it was Lyanna.
Earlier, during the welcoming feast, he had already charmed her with his plaintive song, moving her to tears. But here I think she charms him with her extraordinary courage, defending her father’s bannerman, riding in a tourney, tilting against grown men. She’s a most unusual girl, not just another beauty.
And so, at the end of the tourney, when Rhaegar emerges as the victor, he lays the crown of winter roses in Lyanna’s lap, declaring her the Queen of Love and Beauty. They run away together a year later, which leads to Robert’s Rebellion.
As Arya is her aunt reborn, the horsemanship is just another echo of Lyanna. And, it implies that just as Lyanna turned out to be a skilled jouster on her first outing, Arya has the potential to be an excellent lance as well. Several characters have mused that jousting is mostly equestrian skill, and so, though Arya’s never learned the lance, she already has the foundation for that weapon, too.