How would you rewrite the ending of a show that had an unsatisfying finale, or imagine an ending to a show that was canceled prematurely?
Recently I've been rewatching GIRLS for the umpteenth time. When the series finale originally aired, it was a mini “Game of Thrones finale” situation. Fans were largely disappointed by the final episode, many disliking season 6 in general. It's one of my favorite shows, but usually when I rewatch it I either skip the very last episode, or I skip the entire final season, instead pretending that the season 5 finale was the ending of the show.
The finale of GIRLS hit a lot of marks for controversial finales. A few beloved characters were largely missing from the final episode/season or didn't get closure that people expected. The ending for the main character seemed to come out of nowhere (magically landing a dream job after struggling with employment the whole show,) and her overall arch didn't seem to align with her personality or anything that had happened up to that point. No one really got a happy ending, and the overall message or theme of the show seemed unclear, since many of the characters experienced very little growth over the course of the show, or they did actually experience some growth that was ignored when their conclusions were written.
I thought it might be fun to see if any of you have similar thoughts about any TV shows that didn't end the way you expected, or what you imagine would happen in fantastic shows that never even got an ending due to being canceled early. A few examples that come to mind:
- The obvious - How would you salvage the disaster conclusion of GoT? (I've seen so many takes online that manage to make it more satisfying.)
- I haven't seen Dexter, but I've heard that the ending was unsatisfying and clashed with what people expected from the main character.
- How could HIMYM have ended if the whole show wasn't instantly tranformed into a bait and switch with the finale?
- What would've happened with the characters on Freaks and Geeks, had that amazing show been allowed to continue for another season or two?
I intended to write about how I would want my example show to have ended, but honestly I'm stumped. Writing is hard! Especially if you don't have the luxury of planning the ending ahead of time, which I imagine was the issue for the writers of many of the classic "controversial finales." I'll probably add a comment about it after I come up with something.
Not so much a rewrite, but I would end Arrested Development after the third season. I think the ending of Michael and his son leaving the family was much much better than the mess we got after Netflix picked it up.
AD suffered a lot from the last few episodes of the third season onwards…
To be honest, I would take up the opportunity to do a rewrite for AD. I think it has potential to be good. Unfortunately, everything that made AD good in its first three seasons was gone by the fourth.
But as @catahoula_leopard said, the writing of the show was its genius so I wouldn't touch the rewrite myself with a ten foot pole. What I would do instead is go the fuck back in time, uncancel its third season, and let the show run another 2-3 seasons and come to a natural end, while keeping the variables unchanged.
The cancellation itself made the last couple of episodes really suck.
And this seems to be what happened to Ozark as well. Such an incredible story, which is getting rushed in its last few episodes because "what do you mean we have less episodes than originally planned?"
As an OG who watched the show's original run live as it aired, season 4 was hilarious and I stand by that. Season 5 I don't need to watch again.
Season 5 was rough, but holy cow I didn't see that ending coming.
Overall it's a weird show to go back to. There's so many references to Bush era politics that were news at the time and mostly forgotten now. They had a whole subplot riffing on Terry Schivo, and I don't know how many people will remember her now.
Don't get me wrong. The jokes are still funny even if you either weren't following American politics then, or just don't remember. But they're a lot funnier when you know a joke is a specific reference to something a paticular politician did that was in the news for a week in 2006.
Oh my god, that's what it was about eh? I figured it was about a current event but didn't know which one. I think the whole "balls" wmd photo was also about something that happened?
Yeah there's a lot of extreme-contemporary references with it. Though the whole WMD/Hussein sub-plot aged decently well because it's pretty much transitioning into written history now. I imagine the same will happen with the riffing on the trump wall.
I sort of agree with @caninehere that S4 was hilarious when I watched it, but it honestly doesn't pass the "rewatch test". I've watched S4 maybe 3 times; whereas the first 3 seasons I can leave on repeat and STILL catch new jokes sometimes.
Yes there were some infamous black-and-white “bunker photos” from the Iraq war with lots of sand dune during that news cycle IIRC.
I was actually watching season 1 just last night! I didn't realize it when I was writing the post, but I wonder if it's subconsciously part of the reason I thought of the idea, because the continuation/late game Arrested Development is one of the worst lost opportunities in TV, for me. I think it's one of the greatest comedies of all time, and one of my favorite shows, but sadly I can't even say if I finished watching the last seasons of the show at all. I think I tried watching the first few episodes after Netflix picked it up, and simply didn't care to keep going. Good on Netflix for giving the show another chance, especially considering how underappreciated/mistreated it was by Fox originally, but I'm with you on ending it on season 3. As for rewriting, I wouldn't even dare... the writing on that show was genius and so complex.
This video gives a lot of interesting context about how much of a struggle it was to make the show. It's a wonder that it was as fantastic as it was, all things considered.
Did somebody say Wonder?
In college I wrote a paper on the editing process and how Lee Haxall made the original run what it is. She needed Mitch Hurwitz to go back and do a few reshoots to make things work and even resorted to playing a few scenes backward with Gob's back to the camera and Will Arnett doing A.D.R. She won the 2004 Emmy as the result of her work on the pilot, sculpting the show into what we know and love today. That she was only involved in another 8 episodes through season 2 was a detriment to the show and its fans.
It’s my problem with TV shows as a whole. The creative team that works on the show is constantly changing, meaning the product is constantly changing
This creates seasons often feeling completely disjointed from one another. And often “good” shows are really just a some good seasons and the rest being not good.
I feel like the fact writers change so much for shows gets often ignored when talking about later crappy seasons, but it’s literally a different creative team making the product
It’s why I’m happy miniseries have been becoming more of a thing. The succinctness allows the whole thing to feel solid and cohesive.
I’m also glad more shows have been following in the footsteps of Breaking Bad and ending the story where it’s appropriate to end it instead of dragging it out - eg The Good Place is a recent example of that
Sometimes having that cohesive vision throughout doesn't always work out. Notable series I can think of that fail this test are True Detective and Mr. Robot. Both series had singular visionaries that made incredible first seasons and fell flat when they continued the stories. The Noah Hawley series Fargo and Legion also had varying levels of quality after their first seasons.
I'm not saying that I disagree, though. I do think it's better to keep as much of the creative team intact. It's just that it still does not guarantee success. Knowing how much Ms. Haxall had contributed to the glory days of Arrested Development certainly does have me pining for what could have been.
I actually think True Detective is pretty solid in the following seasons, but it's cursed by being so good in the first season that it leaves you wanting more of those characters and that world and people have a harder time accepting a really good shorter story ending than just playing it out past its prime. Shows sometimes get boxed in by things that aren't about the quality but about the limitations of the viewers.
The Wire spoilers
For example, The Wire got this from different angles. After the first season, some people wanted more Barksdale and the streets and not the docks storylines and the change-up threw some people off. Season 3 got the same gripes because it was wading into politics. After season 3, HBO cancelled the show and executives were hesitant about the show in subsequent talks with David Simon because of how the storylines wrapped up for Stringer and Barksdale and they thought that viewers were too invested in those characters and it might not work to move on without them. There was constant friction because of what viewers expected from the show and what executives expected from viewers, and the recognition of the quality of the show was lower on the list of priorities in the eyes of many. Of course, The Wire was telling a bigger story, so it had the promise of being able to take all of these individual pieces that people had problems with based on the expectations set before and open the viewers eyes to something more than what they expected by tying them all together.In the book All the Pieces Matter, George Pelecanos says something about a storyline in season 4 that I think speaks to this limitation of viewers in storytelling as well.
To the people being left behind, that makes the show worse, but to the people who aren't, it makes the show better. Sometimes our own limitations affect our ability to see the work in a different light.
For stories that aren't trying to create a greater narrative beyond the individual stories, there won't be such a thing to stop comparing one story to the expectations built off the back of another story. I say this as someone who did not like the following seasons of True Detective initially, but upon additional re-watches they began to grow on me.
True Detective is absolutely cursed by its titan of a first season. It was never going to live up to that. It's still better than a whole lot of television in season 2 and 3. Problem is when your follow leaves your audience failing to get that same dopamine hit you gave them previously it all falls apart.
The Wire is an all-time classic. Those shifts in story lines are perfect. I did not watch it until several years after its initial run, though, so being able to watch unencumbered by weekly and off season waits probably helps to alleviate the turns.
I do actually believe that there are a lot more success stories than failures by keeping creative teams consistent. It's why I wished Lee Haxall continued to edit Arrested Development, a show which really creates a lot of its magical comedy via the editing process. My point was simply that it doesn't always work out that way.
There are some anthology series that have bucked the trend too. Fargo (the TV show) has aired 40 episodes and I think the creator, Noah Hawley, is a credited writer on almost every episode save a few, he is a heavy presence on the show as a producer + has directed some episodes as well.
The White Lotus has way fewer episodes (13 across 2 seasons) but Mike White (the creator) has written and directed every episode.
I love Fargo, but beyond season 2 the quality did drop. Not below something I could still enjoy, though. I even like the second season better than the first, and the first was magical. I love everything that Hawley has done and cannot wait to see more.
White Lotus is incredible. I do significantly enjoy the first season more than the second, but again, not below something I can still enjoy.
Replacing the visions of Hawley or White and I doubt if I would even bother to continue watching. Those series are so intrinsically linked to their unique minds that it'd be like watching a shadow. For better or for worse, I always want the original creator(s) to continue giving us what they have to give us. It's why I wish Lee Haxall continued to edit on Arrested Development. Just wanted to play a bit of devil's advocate in noting that the grass is not always greener on the other side.
To each their own, I thought Season 3 was fantastic and Season 4 was not as good as the first 3. Still very enjoyable though. Looking forward to the new one.
The first season also did have the benefit of being able to lean on the movie and heavily re-use elements from it in a way the other seasons didn't.
For Game of Thrones, I think the worst part is that the ending felt really rushed. The final season should have perhaps been three.
Season 8 could have been devoted to just the Battle of Winterfell. Make it take place over the course of a year, rather than a single night. The White Walkers lay siege to Winterfell. We see the characters struggle through the different factions all living within the fortress. The Dothraki would most definitely get stir crazy. Perhaps a lot of fights would break out between them and the Northmen, or the Unsullied.
People would have to be so cautious about the dead. Grandpa passes away in the middle of the night, wakes up as a white walker, kills the rest of his family and suddenly we have Zombie Seal Team Six inside of Winterfell.
John would have the chance to continue to grow into the leader of men he is destined to be. He and Dany are growing apart. She's getting crazy. Her dragons are growing hungry. They need a lot of food and it's harder to come by in the long winter. The dragons are also maybe pulling shifts circling the fortress burning a fire moat around the walls to keep the walkers at bay. Stressed out and on the brink of starvation maybe they fight each other. It could be a super tense moment and would lead to a much more sensible death to one of the dragons than what we actually got from season 8.
I'm not sure how I'd do the rest of the ending, but we'd have the battle in King's landing be more than just an episode or two. Maybe that would be a whole season as well. Though that would probably be too tiring. A whole season of warfare would probably be fine, but two, back to back might be too much.
Then in the end once the battle is won it would feel deserved. Maybe Arya takes the face of a white walker and spends months living behind enemy lines. She can still have the cool knife drop call back kill scene, but instead of just the single scene of her sneaking around the library like Metal Gear, it's going to be a scene, or several in every episode.
I agree that the ending was clearly rushed. A lot of the ending plot points are not so bad on their own, but they feel unearned. Like Dany burning King's Landing is absolutely a reasonable extrapolation of her arc, but they didn't do the work to get her there.
My only issue with your pitch is the same as a problem I have with the show, which is that it feels wrong to have the white walkers not be the final threat of the show. Throughout the story there was always this narrative promise, that the petty squabbling and scheming of the ruling class was meaningless in the face of the ever-encroaching apocalypse. Eventually the politicians of King's Landing would be humbled and forced to put aside their selfish ways or perish from their hubris. And it just never happened.
It turns out the Lannisters et al were right to ignore the white walkers, it was all taken care of by Winterfell and never caused them one bit of grief. In fact, it potentially benefited them to sit on their asses because Dany weakened her armies immensely by assisting the fight in the North. No character ever paid a narrative price for ignoring the zombie horde.
If I were to rewrite it, I would put the confrontation between Dany and King's Landing earlier. Maybe Dany begins sieging KL in the least aggressive way she can justify, not burning it down, hoping to win over the people or starve out the Lannisters. Then, frustrated that her plan is not working, heeds the call to help in the North hoping it will win the people's hearts to her side. She could even offer an olive branch to the Lannisters, saying that if they come help her, she will keep the family in good standing once she ascends the throne (though they refuse). She sacrifices much of her army and at least one dragon, returning to KL heartbroken but victorious, only to find the same stubborn population unwilling to surrender to her. That could be her breaking point where she burns down the city, offs the Lannisters, and forces Jon's hand to kill her. I think something like that would do a much better job of proving all the Lannister machinations to be ultimately pointless, while also better justifying why Dany resorts to razing the city.
White Walkers shatter into ice when you kill them.
So how is Arya supposed to take their face?
You are far from the only person to suggest this plot line over the years, and I never gave it much thought until I went back to check, but… yeah, they establish this all the way back with Sam the Slayer. White Walkers leave no corpses behind for Faceless Men to work with.
To be clear, I agree that Arya’s Faceless Men training should have paid off more in S8—but taking a White Walker’s face specifically doesn’t make sense.
Besides, there’s more to Arya than shapeshifting. She learned how to disappear into a slew of new identities just by changing her clothes, how she carried herself, her manner of speaking—just like Varys learned when he joined a group of mummers before he was cut.
Arya learned how to tail people and discover their secrets. She was a cutpurse. (This is also just like Varys’ adolescence.)
She learned a variety of combat techniques with all manner of weapons.
She learned to endure pain. Hunger. Exposure to the elements.
She was blinded, and taught how to survive and fight in the dark. She remained blind until darkness was as sweet to her as light. Next the FM were going to take her hearing, and then her legs so she’d have to crawl—it doesn’t look like her training will get that far in the books, though, similar to the show.
Arya was taught the properties of all manner of poisons. (Similar to Oberyn Martell, that’s what he studied at the Citadel, and how he killed the Mountain with his poisoned blade even though his head was crushed like a grape.)
She’s fluent in Braavosi and knows some High Valyrian.
And like her sister Sansa, Arya was taught how to lie.
Sansa learned politics and statecraft from Cersei, Margaery, Tyrion and Littlefinger.
Arya was cupbearer to Tywin Lannister (or Ramsay Bolton in the books, also an accomplished tactician.) And she played the Game of Faces with the Waif and Jaqen H’Ghar. She is now a preternaturally flawless lie detector. And she can lie perfectly in turn.
And she’s also the second best warg in the Stark family after Bran. Book Arya wargs Nymeria to drag her mother’s corpse from the river, and she kills many Lannisters and Freys with her wolf pack. In Braavos she wargs cats to pass the FM blindness test.
The show seems to have dropped Arya’s warging entirely (as well as Jon’s, for that matter) but they both have the latent ability.
So Arya Stark has acquired a shitton of useful skills over the years—few of which paid off in S8. The face-taking is really just the tip of the iceberg.
Oh wow.
I've only watched the show, I had no idea how deep her story went. Seems so much better too. It felt like her training was very brief for the amount of skills she learned.
Yeah, for the most part the show only explored her combat training.
In the books, she’s learned some water dancing with Syrio Forel, some archery tips from Anguy, brawling with the Hound, the finger knife from Red Roggo, poisons from the Waif… and I think that’s it. No quarterstaff yet, although she learned to navigate with a stick and defend herself if need be when she was Blind Beth. I think she relied more on her secreted knives, though, so it’s still not a good 1:1 for the show’s quarterstaff scenes.
But I suppose we’ll see her level up with staffs and spears off-page or something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The combat skills are almost incidental, though. The underlying theme is her soft skill development. The bits of wisdom she picks up from all her teachers, along with the practical survival skills, that shape the person she’s becoming. It’s a Bildungsroman.
To a certain extent you could say that about all the Stark children, they all have their version of coming-of-age. But it’s not the consistent driving force of their narrative like it is with Arya.
Jon has his learning period when he first joins the Night’s Watch—but his ascent to Lord Commander is rapid, and from then on he’s acting with the same authority as Mormont.
Similarly Robb stops being a boy the moment Ilyn Payne takes Ned’s head. He is the King in the North, waging a military campaign, leading men, and condemning them to their deaths.
Bran does have a learning process, but it’s mostly passive, watching the lives of other people. His supernatural powers are continually growing, so there’s that. But he has nowhere near the breadth of lessons and experiences that his sisters have.
Rickon is basically feral, he’s been deprived of most education, beyond whatever Osha is teaching him in Skagos. Little man’s off riding unicorns for all we know.
The only sibling who’s probably had as many lessons as Arya is Sansa, and even she is more of a woman than a girl now. The books are at the point where in the show Littlefinger made the colossal blunder of selling her to the Boltons. Petyr Baelish is way smarter than that—in the books, he’s arranging a match for her to handsome playboy Harry the Heir, who will inherit the Eyrie if and when Robin Arryn dies—an untimely demise Littlefinger would be happy to help along, just as he killed Robin’s mother Lysa. The tension is whether Sansa will allow Baelish to murder her little cousin so she can marry a handsome young man and become Lady of the Vale; or whether she’ll use this opportunity to unmask Littlefinger and avenge her family, as she did in the show when he tried to turn her against her sister. Presently she’s going along with it, and doing a Margaery on Harry, charming him and manipulating him to fall in love with her. When Littlefinger’s murderous intent is made more clear, however… I expect she’ll save Robin, denounce Littlefinger, and acquire the Vale Knights anyway, which will help her retake Winterfell.
But back to Arya. In the epilogue of the last published book, Varys tells the dying Kevan Lannister about his ideal king.
As to who Aegon is… That would take a lot of explaining, lol. Suffice it to say this character did not make it onscreen, along with the whole cast of characters that surrounds him, and his entire subplot. But it hardly matters, because Aegon is an obvious red herring.
Much like Jon Snow.Most of the fandom thinks he’s a fake, and it seems inevitable that this kid is doomed. The only question is whether the Lannisters crush him, or Daenerys’ dragons consume him. (Probably the latter.)But I think that in this speech Varys outlines what most people—and probably Martin himself—would consider the ideal traits in a ruler. And as I read it, all I could think was: He’s describing Arya.
Arya has always wanted to be a knight, and she’s been trained in arms. And at Winterfell she received the foundation of a noble’s education.
She reads and writes, she’s particularly good at math, and she speaks several tongues (Common, Braavosi, High Valyrian).
She has studied under Maester Luwin at Winterfell and Septa Mordane in King’s Landing, who also instructed her in the mysteries of the Faith.
I don’t recall poetry per se, but she’s listened to the songs of Tom of Sevenstreams, Anguy’s marcher ballads, Dareon’s love songs. She even inspired a song herself, My Featherbed.
She’s learned a ton of history from all sorts of people—off the top of my head she gets a retelling of the Battle of the Bells from Harwin, the foundation of Braavos from the Kindly Man, the Valyrian descent of the Black Pearl from Merry. She’s heard the prophecies of the Ghost of High Heart and Yna the one-eyed maegi.
She has lived with all sorts of smallfolk, not just fisherfolk, but if you’re being picky, Varys, yes, she has specifically lived with Brusco the fishmonger, loading crates of fish with his sons until her back ached and helping them launch their boat down the canals. She’s sold oysters, clams, and cockles as well as any of Brusco’s daughters.
She befriends and charms nearly everyone she meets, from orphan boys to soldiers to sailors to whores to the King of Seals and the Black Pearl herself.
She’s definitely worked with her hands, scrubbing castle steps, plucking chickens, fetching and carrying water, serving meals and carrying messages as a cupbearer, cleaning and sewing up wounds, tending horses, stripping and washing corpses, chopping vegetables while blind, and a dozen other menial tasks. She’s even done a turn as an actress.
And yes, she definitely knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Few characters have endured that suffering as intensely and as often as she has.
Unlike Tommen, Arya was never taught that anything, let alone kingship, was her right. Her entire journey has been about sacrifice and abnegation, she’s given up everything, even her own name.
She has always put other people first, risking her life for her friends and even perfect strangers (Weasel, Sam) on multiple occasions.
And she has an innate sense of justice, informed by watching her father administer the law, first as Warden of the North, and then as Hand of the King. She has learned from his example—and his naivety.
Here’s the show’s version:
It’s the same sentiment, more or less, but without the specifics that parallel Arya’s arc so well.
By the way, I left one skill off from my earlier reply: Arya is a natural horsewoman, which is established from her very first chapter. She easily evades all the Brotherhood Without Banners save Harwin, the son of Winterfell’s master of horse who taught her how to ride in the first place.
This is yet another connection to her aunt Lyanna, who is described by Roose Bolton as half a horse herself, called a centaur by Barbrey Dustin—and is likely the true identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who defeated three opponents at the Tourney at Harrenhal in the lists, defending Howland Reed’s honor.
Mad King Aerys, living up to his name, thinks the laughing tree on the mystery knight’s shield is laughing at him, and is convinced this is some plot against him. He charges his son, Prince Rhaegar, to unmask the mystery knight.
The official story is that the mystery knight’s identity is never revealed, but what likely happened is that Rhaegar discovered it was Lyanna.
Earlier, during the welcoming feast, he had already charmed her with his plaintive song, moving her to tears. But here I think she charms him with her extraordinary courage, defending her father’s bannerman, riding in a tourney, tilting against grown men. She’s a most unusual girl, not just another beauty.
And so, at the end of the tourney, when Rhaegar emerges as the victor, he lays the crown of winter roses in Lyanna’s lap, declaring her the Queen of Love and Beauty. They run away together a year later, which leads to Robert’s Rebellion.
As Arya is her aunt reborn, the horsemanship is just another echo of Lyanna. And, it implies that just as Lyanna turned out to be a skilled jouster on her first outing, Arya has the potential to be an excellent lance as well. Several characters have mused that jousting is mostly equestrian skill, and so, though Arya’s never learned the lance, she already has the foundation for that weapon, too.
I knew there was a lot cut from the books, there has to be. Context can't always be conveyed the same way in film as in text.
But this is massive. It feels as if they could have devoted an entire show to Arya herself.
I’ll start by saying, I do believe GRRM will finish the series. Mostly because you can tell he cares a great deal about this world and the characters he’s created. He’s also continually worked on and released new projects set in Westeros, which signals to me that he’s still flushing out the world. Ultimately, I’ve gathered that he sees a Song of Ice and Fire as his most difficult project and mangnum opus to wrap up the entire story. Regardless of how long it takes to write the “Winds of Winter” and “A Dream of Spring”, I think something will be released one day.
Putting that aside. The story itself is so good, in my opinion, because it’s inspired by the intricacies of history. There is no satisfying “ending” when learning about the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, for example, because although some key events may have a clear beginning, middle, and end, most of the events bleed into new events that form new empires.
The most unsatisfying ending they could have created is the one in the show. No empire can fall, no war can be fought, without collateral damage. Damage that is bigger and further reaching than a few people or houses. Ultimately, the story should be never ending in that regard.
I think how GRRM will organically end the series is with the end of winter. I don’t think it needs to have a perfectly tied bow on it where all plot-lines are resolved, because that never happens in reality. But I do think it needs a clear narrative, of some kind, that addresses the White Walkers, the Targaryen prophecies/dragons, and the Iron Throne/Seven Kingdoms. If he can do that, then everyone else can be left at various stages of their journeys, just as we met them at various stages. Some character cliff hangers would be more satisfying than others, of course, but I think it’s more important to show the end of this season (literally and figuratively) and the collapse of this empire as a whole. Ideally without it being ignorant to the fact a new empire would simply rise in its place and feast on its corpse, as history does.
Yes, as I already explained. I do believe that.
I'd eat my hat. I can't see any likelihood of it happening. I do agree with you that he cares about the world and yes he has been releasing other works, but it seems abundantly clear to me that ASOIAF is dead and he was ready to move on from it a long time ago in pursuit of new stories that don't have the same weight of expectation upon them. GRRM is a great world builder and a poor storyteller, particularly because he doesn't know how to properly resolve anything... and he created a Herculean task for himself in ending ASOIAF that he'll never complete.
He's made seemingly little tangible progress on book 6 after 12 years, he's in his mid-70s, and he's said the series dies with him and no one else will be finishing it. The only way I see it happening is if he's actually finished 6+7 or is working towards that, has somehow kept that under wraps all this time, and plans to release them upon his death. Otherwise I don't think we'll even get book 6.
Which, honestly, is not the end of the world, but it's a real bummer for the ASOIAF fans who have been reading the series for many many years wanting a (real) conclusion.
Especially since the Dothraki way of life is to raze cities, kill all the men, and take the women and children as slaves—slaves which they then turn around and trade to the Ghiscari in Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor—where the Masters castrate little boys, creating the next generation of Unsullied.
In other words, it is highly likely that at least some of those Unsullied were first taken as slave by the Dothraki tribes they were forced to fight alongside in service of Daenerys.
Former slaves and former slave-takers sharing the same camp? And it never results in any conflict?
Such a disappointment. Just one of many in S8, of course, but I think it really shows how little thought D&D put into these characters and this world, failing to connect the dots.
Firefly seems like the poster child for a prematurely canceled, but other than Buffy, it seems like Joss Whedon never got to finish anything (e.g. Dollhouse). Serenity was not nearly the ending that series deserved.
To be clear, I think the Firefly class ship has sailed on this opportunity, and at this point, I would not like to see a reboot.
things I would add in later seasons (spoilers)
I feel like the cast had the perfect chemistry for people to end up together and actually stay together, vs the usual soap opera / sitcom "will they, won't they" drama.
I had a mild theory for a sequel where Book left Malcolm a message via dead man's switch which leads to a mystery adventure of looking for a hidden cache of information. Book eventually reveals that he was a Colonel in Alliance Intelligence and his strategies were what lead to the Alliance victory, including Serenity Valley. But his conscience got the best of him when he saw some of the atrocities of the Alliance so that's when he found religion. Also explains how he knows so much about so much, the unquestioned Alliance medical help, and so on. The cache they end up finding is further proof of war crimes by Alliance military and parliament which leads to their downfall...maybe another war of independence with their influence crumbled.
I honestly think Firefly is only as much of a cult hit as it was BECAUSE it was cancelled early. I don't think Joss could have made anything close to as good as what most fans would imagine the rest of the show being. I was underwhelmed at how Joss wrapped the plot up in Serenity, and I'm not super convinced it would've been that much more satisfying if he'd gotten to continue the show. And there are definitely some aspects of even the show that are not great but easier to overlook in a single doomed season than they would be if they weren't handled very delicately in a longer show (a ton of stuff around Inara and Mal/Inara in particular imo), and from interviews Joss has given about cut content I'm not very confident on his ability to execute there either. Especially with how much we know now about his behavior as showrunner on other shows.
If you never watched the DVDs of Dollhouse, there were two extra episodes that finish it. Not sure if they make their way onto streaming but eventually the story got a full, complete closure.
Thank you for getting me know! Going to have to scrounge up a DVD player, or a drive for my computer at least!
They are Epitaph One and Two if you can find them online!
It's been so long I should really rewatch the whole thing crocodile tear
At this point I don't think it is worth it. Do something new. Whedon is persona non grata and with good reason, he won't be involved in any reboot. But I think Whedon's writing style, for better or for worse (I was not usually a fan but many obviously were) was a big part of his works and it may be easier said than done to replicate that. If that's the intention.
This is maybe an unpopular opinion but I don't mind about 95% of the finale of How I Met Your Mother. I know some folks hate that the mother died but there are so many clues throughout the show that she's not alive at the moment the story is being told to his kids. The things that really blow are Barney and Robin getting divorced, Barney reverting to sleeping around and Ted going after Robin again. The show had made the point that they weren't a good fit about 100 times, only to do a heel turn in the last five minutes. That's what really sucks. But you can pretty much lop off that epilogue and still have a very good finale.
For me, the problem with the ending wasn't that the mother died or that Barney and Robin divorced. But it was because the entire last season was a pain to get through as it was basically just 2 days to the wedding but stretched out for the entire season.
It was painful as it mainly consisted of preparing for the wedding and constantly affirming many times that Barney and Robin really did love each other and that Ted should get over Robin.
Then all of a sudden in the epilogue, they split, mother dies and Ted goes for Robin again. Completely undoing most of last season. Again, the problem with the epilogue wasn't that these things happened, but because there was no set up to it and the last season was a pain to get through.
What I would have changed would have been to get Robin and Barney married within the first two episodes or something. And then, make that 10 minute epilogue be the entire last season. That means Ted would meet the mother and she'll be part of the cast.
Barney and Robin can then use the last season to be explore their marriage and figure out that they weren't working out and split at some point in the last season and it wouldn't be terrible.
We can also have the mother die later in the season and actually get to feel sad because we to know her too.
We can also explore how Ted and Robin's relationship evolved after that so that when he goes for her in the end, it would make sense.
So the point is, the general content of the epilogue wasn't bad. It was the set up to the epilogue was terrible. The fact that many people felt like it came out of nowhere shows that they didn't set things up well enough for people to feel like it was a natural progression of things.
Mostly agreed there. One idea a friend suggested is to have Barney die some time after the wedding rather than getting a divorce, which can help cover why Ted and Robin got closer again (both of them losing their partner). That could also explain the stories of Barney's shenanigans as being more played up via reminiscing about a friend who's gone.
I honestly wonder if they didn't kill him because they wated a spinoff series
Everyone was having too much fun that they didn't realize that they had went 8 seasons without Ted's actual wife making much of an impact in his life. They had written themselves into a corner by revealing Robin was "aunt Robin" while not leaving enough clues of their actual mother. So the ending that he's asking their permission to get with Robin is pretty much the only ending that makes sense. Meanwhile they had to reveal who the mother was to the audience and I dunno if they were cut short and told they needed to wrap it up or what but it definitely felt rushed.
I think they needed 3 seasons. I would have had the wedding in season 9 go half a season, then spend the rest of the season having Ted date Tracy meanwhile Barney and Robin begin to realize they made a mistake but not quite end it.
Season 10 you have Barney and Robins marriage dissolve, you have Tracy integrate into the crew. You have Lilly and Marshall further withdraw from the group as their life begins to revolve around their kids. Barney is constantly away on some new secret mission. It's Ted, Tracy and Robin for the most part and ultimately whatever drama there is quickly resolved Robin and Tracy basically become best friends. The season ends with Tracy revealing that she's pregnant and it's twins.
Season 11, starts with Ted and Tracy in the delivery room, you spend a couple epsodes during the birth detailing Tracy's life before Ted and how they had a couple near misses to tie their storey is together etc. She passes due to complications and it's very sad. There are a few episodes of Ted struggling to come to terms while taking care of their kids. Robin steps up and helps Ted and in taking care of the kids she has a fundamental shift in what she wants in life. Then time travel/montage with Ted & Robin essentially raising the kids but not living together, you have Lilly/Marshal essneially transition to being their family couple, Barney occassionally making appearances, growing up and playing with Lilly/Marshalls kids, Ted and Robin never actually living togther in order to keep the aunt fascade. Finally ending with Ted telling the kids that he and Robin had known for some time but never wanted to disrespect their bio mom and waited for their approval. They tell him they've always known they had two mothers.
Wow. I wasn’t a die-hard fan of the show, but I watched it and generally liked it. But even I hated the way it ended. But this…this is pretty good. This may have been enough to elevate the show to a new level of respect for me. Well done.
I didn't love the finale of HIMYM at all but Season 9 as a whole was a marked improvement over 7 and 8. I think it was a bit of a stretch to fill so many episodes with the wedding but it was a fun idea and Cristin Milioti was a great addition to the cast.
It was so weird to see the show improve in its last season - which typically does not happen - and then torpedo itself right at the end especially when they practically already had the perfect ending written from the get go.
I think the bigger problem for How I Met Your Mother is that they set up Ted and Robin as the perfect "sitcom couple" in episode one, played on it for season after season... and then tripped over themselves trying to make it work that Robin wasn't the mother but was also clearly the love of Ted's life
You can't convince the audience that Ted loves someone else more in just a handful of episodes, and Ted being with anyone else wouldn't fit the tone of the entire rest of the series.
Here's my answer in another comment.
Star Trek: Voyager
We spend 7 years bonding with a crew and set on a mission of getting home. The final episode is a high stakes drama of then making a final push, and they can see home in sight, and it cuts to credits.
Each character spent so much time yearning for home that we deserved a chance to see what that looked like for them. Even a short montage without any dialogue would have been better than the emptiness were left with.
Not to mention the entire show was about the crew working together with limited resources and driving problems.
And I'm the end they're rescued by a the traveler who gives them super-weapons and a map.
I think the sooner ending would have been described the hub at the cost of remaining in the Delta quadrant, with years remaining on their journey.
They even could have followed up with a film, or even featured their return as part of the Picard stuff now.
Also drop the Chakotay/7 romance sub-plot. Poor 7 keeps getting forced into unearned relationships.
My wife and I rewatched the show a few years ago with our daughter. The lack of a denouement on that show was shocking. And this wasn't even the first time I saw it.
The only defensive it I can think of is that they felt like the first episode of that two-parter was as close as they were going to get to showing the crew's homecoming. That it might feel redundant to show it again. I don't know.
I always thought that Voyager should end with a Deep Space 9 tie-in, where the Federation lost the war. Voyager returns to find the whole Federation laid waste by the Dominium...
Just because this always comes up in these types of threads: the ending of LOST might not have been mind-blowing, but it made perfect sense and was far better than the internet would have you believe. The island was real, they weren't in purgatory, and the ending in the church is just them all meeting up in "heaven" after they each lived out their lives.
LOST holds up VERY well today being binged...maybe even better than when it aired.
Isn't it sort of unequivocal that they were in purgatory with the Man in Black/Jacob/flash-sideways reveal? It was an experiment to test the goodness of humanity/find a new island protector.
Yes, Jacob brought them to the island to find a replacement, but the purgatory theory that gets repeated all the time implies they died in the plane crash and nothing from the show "really" happened. The candidates (and everyone else) survived the crash, did all the things IRL, then ended up where they ended up.
Kinda like you said in another comment, there were a lot of plot holes/unsolved mysteries because they definitely wrote themselves into corners over the years it aired (and JJ Abrams is the king of over hype and under delivery).
"Everything that's happened to you is real.”
And yet somehow people think they were dead all along. I even had someone tell me that line proved they were dead the whole time. I don't even understand the mental gymnastics on that one.
My main complaint about the ending is that you essentially got an expository dump in what I think was the second to last episode. What made lost good was the two story structure: you have the action in the present and the backstory. I think the real failure was that they couldn’t give you the answer without dumping something on you, instead of developing it through multiple characters.
That was definitely a big problem. We spent years trying to figure out what was going on and at the last second they basically shrugged and said "it's just magic I guess?"
I remember on forums it being a running joke how frustrating it was that the characters seem to purposely not investigate any of the mysteries. It's been years since I've seen it, but it was so common for characters to wander into some mysterious thing full of possible clues, then just leave and never tell anyone. In one of the final seasons, one of the survivors finally turns to the leader of the others and straight up asks "What is the smoke monster?". I'm sitting at home going FINALLY! You've been hanging out with this guy for years at this point and never thought to ask him what's going on?
I almost mentioned that one and decided to avoid commenting on it even though I was one of the disappointed fans at the time. I also think I don't really have a right to complain, because I believe I had mostly given up on the show at some point before the final season, and possibly only watched the finale after I heard all the negative feedback. Which (as you implied) probably contributed to my experience of watching it. Your comment makes me curious to see if I might enjoy rewatching the show now.
There is something to be said here about how we let other people's perspectives on a show impact how we feel about it. I've always loved how reddit provided the opportunity to discuss TV shows with other people, but many times I've looked up threads for particular episodes and found myself completely surprised by how negatively they were received. I eventually started avoiding the subreddits for some shows in an effort to simply let myself enjoy something without external bias.
Lost, like a lot of JJ Abrams's work, relies far more on intrigue than it does on satisfying explanations. It's probably worthwhile finishing if you get invested in the storylines but I also think there are a lot of mysteries it sets up without an interest in offering explanations to. I recently went back and watched it all the way through for the first time since it was broadcast and kept a list of all the mysterious events to see if they came back to follow up on it or not.
I feel like Damon Lindelof (who was one of the creators of LOST) does this in The Leftovers, and normally I wouldn't see myself being into like mystery supernatural type things but it worked for me in that show. The premise from the beginning sets the stage for me I guess, it's an unexplainable event in a way and you're along for the ride with the characters living it, so perhaps it helped me suspend by disbelief for other things by knowing what I was getting into right away.
I completely agree, with the necessary caveat I always have to throw out that after the last episode people need to watch the finale scenes on YouTube that didn’t make it in—like the alternate (original, more novel-correct, objectively better lol) ending toI Am Legend, I feel like it really ties the room together.
Quantum Leap: Sam Beckett made it home. I get that you want to do the adventures continue thing, but throw the guy a bone. Maybe end the show completely cribbing from The Egg from Andy Weir, where Sam eventually becomes everyone who has ever been and becomes someone who guides the next generation of leapers, or turns that down to help Al, but it's a dick move to bounce him around forever.
The ending of Chuck:
Spoiler
I don't like how Sarah got mind wiped and whether she got her memories back was probably a no but a little bit up in the air. I would want 2 or three episodes of getting memories back and a happy ever after.Yes. Thank you. I love Chuck so much but I hate that ending. It was completely unnecessary.
That kind of show should have left off on a happy note, not an ambiguous one. I'm okay with her losing her memories if it turned out to be temporary. I saw an edit where after they kiss, a replay of the shows major events plays. Which symbolizes Sarah getting her memories back. That's the canon for me 😄
Battlestar Galactica. The reboot that started in 2004.
Spoilers!
Plenty of folks complain about the ending going the spiritual route: I don't mind that, since it was explicitly part of the story from the start (re: Head Six and monotheism versus the polytheism of the humans).
What I wanted was for the writers to lean more heavily into that: but that this "God" of the Cylons was some incredible hyper-dimensional supercomputer trying to engineer humanity and Machine life to be peaceful. For violence not to continue in the cycles we've seen through history. Which...it might actually be the case, given the tease at the very end where Angel Baltar says "You know it doesn't like that name", in reference to Angel Six calling "it" God.
So while it doesn't all need to be spelled out, even if they wanted to go along with the route of landing on our actual Earth 150k years ago, they should have leaned into the clear problem in landing on prehistoric Earth, with early modern humans wandering around. That just doesn't make sense. It shouldn't make sense to folks on the ships either, and they should have questioned loudly why there are humans walking around on a planet really far away from their own. If this was the place that their own species truly evolved, if they had left it, or what. We have a fossil record, and while convergent evolution is incredible, it doesn't lead to what we saw. Not without some staggering level of intervention, anyway. Not without nanomachines from Cylon hybrids making offspring viable or somesuch. That they didn't seem to question it and just said "lol let's get to banging" was disappointing.
So my pitch for even minimal rewrites would be more interaction with visions, ancient texts, Cylon beliefs, or whatever - some mix of all of them - to explicitly hint that some Cylon God, or some group of the Lords of Kobol (which should be hinted at being Cylons! Or somehow spoken to by Cylon Angels or something) was spreading humanity around, or was brought from actual-Earth to other places.
Much longer rewrite (option 2) would be making the destroyed Earth actually be our Earth, and the planet with prehistoric humans they land on be some other planet entirely. Ancient Egypt level of technology and social organization, and the humans and Cylons descend as humble gods, trying to help guide their future to avoid their own mistakes. Angel Six and Baltar could have the same discussion they had at the end, just over the montage of the BSG crew and others trying to use scraps of tech to inspire and educate folks. Less "eschew technology, become prehistoric", and more "we done fucked up, let's become flawed prophets so our descendants can avoid the same things."
HIMYM. For starters, the episode How Your Mother Met Me. This is from a write-up I did about a month or so after the finale...
Now, for the ending/final seasons. There is no reason they should have stretched out the days leading up to the wedding. The spent so much time having the characters go through their final development arcs; Ted literally and figuratively letting go of Robin, Barney & Robin expressing their love for each other, Barney being outed as genuinely loving and caring for the gang and not being a terrible human with his job...etc. And then they undo all that in the finale, Barney goes back to his scumbag ways until he ha a kid, Ted pines over Robin again...and they just casually kill off the mother while barely getting a chance to know her.
I would have had the lead-up and wedding be the first few episodes, then actually spend the rest of the reason getting to know the mother, Robin and Barney maybe exploring their relationship regardless of its success. But one thing I would have liked to have seen is the ending being Ted saying "and that's how I met your mother" and Tracy pops into view and says "If you father boring you with that story again? C'mon everyone, the table is set and turkey's ready" and it cuts to everyone getting up to a big thanksgiving dinner with the whole gang
That's a really great and detailed write up for altering how the show played out in the end. It seems you're set on the story not ending with Ted and Robin getting together, which I do think is hard to have that ending reconcile with the circumstances leading up to it, but it does seem the creators of the show were hard-set on this idea from the very beginning seeing as they filmed the kids reactions years in advance.
Do you think there's a compromise in there that fits with your suggestions where they could have finished with this ending that they were so focused on, or in some ways it's always going to be stilted to have the Ted and Robin ending? It does feel very much like him living happily ever after with Robin sends a mixed message when spending 8 seasons telling the stories he was telling, and even as beautifully as you've described altering it for the final season it seems that wouldn't be enough to outweigh what the prior seasons had set up. The mixed message it sends being that Robin was his true love the whole time. It feels very much like a story someone thought in their head that sounded good, without a lot of consideration for the characters at the time, and then as they fleshed it out to put it into a show they weren't able to let go of this ending even if it didn't feel right or honest to the characters.
I don't think there's any way to make the Robin ending work. We saw time and again that they were good friends, but not great in a relationship. It might have worked if the show had 2 seasons and we didn't see them get together and break up multiple times. But setting up a 10 year series of events leading to the mother, only to immediately kill her off, and go back to the Robin thing was such a bizarre move.
Yeah I agree as I also don't think there was a way, the closest they got was the deleted scene where Robin misinterpreted what Ted said and thought he was opening the door to a relationship with her (while he was still with Tracy). That was weak in that it felt forced and didn't feel true to Robin's character that she would assume such a thing of Ted to do that to Tracy, and that she would also go along with it herself, or possibly even be that forthright or honest on something that intimate over casual lunch when they haven't really talked in awhile, but it would have bolstered Ted's love for Tracy to turn Robin down at the expense of Robin's character.
I don't think they were incompatible in terms of chemistry, rather it was the goals they had for life at that time were incompatible. There's a scene where I think they probably meant to be sort of a foreshadowing or at the very least reflecting on Ted and Robin's relationship, I think it was Punchy's wedding maybe, where Robin and Ted are talking and Robin tells Ted he just needs to find someone he has chemistry with, and then he just needs one other thing, timing, but timing is a bitch.
Of course I don't think it works while also setting up the dream story of The Mother, but I believe that was the intention behind that scene to reflect on Ted and Robin's situation. The reason they kept breaking up was mostly because Ted refused to acknowledge that his goals and Robin's did not align at that point in their life and Robin was more cognizant of it but perhaps not steadfast to the point where she took a long time to fully close the door on Ted as he was never able to close that door himself until Tracy came along. By the time he's telling this story to his kids, the timing is right because their goals are not at odds with each other anymore. He has kids, he had the typical family life, Robin successfully developed her career to her greatest expectations and went all over the world.
It also didn't help that the show constantly approached love and the resulting relationship as "the one", the idea that there is just one perfect person out there for everyone, while there's other ways to view love and the resulting relationships. But the fact that they approached it that way made it worse, because the story is basically setting it up for Robin to be "The One". How can Ted possibly have two loves that are "The One"? But outside of that concept, it wouldn't feel as farcical that he could have that feeling for two people, it just still wouldn't have done justice to Tracy the way they barely gave the viewers any chance to know her. They skipped the show and went straight to just telling people they were perfect for each other.
The goals thing just reminded me of the other thing that was weird and kinda gross. Through the while show Ted wants the whole family package. Wife, kids, picket fence and so on. Robin is career driven and eventually finds out that she can't have kids.
Good thing the mother was able to have 2 kids before conveniently dying and making room for Robin. Now Ted gets to have the kids and the woman he's actually meant to be in love with.
About Dexer:
Spoiler:
Make it end 5 minutes earlier and you get a
greatsomewhat acceptable ending.Dexter disappears with Debra's body in the storm, while Harrison and Hannah go away together. While not perfect you tie all the loose ending, keeping it vague enought that the viewer can fill the gaps in what may or may not happen next.
And most of all, no lumberjack ending...
The problem for me was the season(s) leading up to the ending felt low budget, rushed and just plain bad writing. So bad that I hardly cared how it ended. It's a general problem with shows that go on for too long and gets watered down. They wear the audience down to the point that any ending is just a relief that you don't have to watch it and get frustrated anymore.
Yeah, after season 4, it was weak. I really didn't mind season 5 that much until the end, because everything just started to feel the same. Like every season's new character was someone that was going to be gone by the end, either because they get killed or because they leave. Even Quinn's storyline bothered me at points, where he just became like Doakes 2.0 for a bit. Then Lumen was sort of a rehash of Miguel Prado but they explored different elements of the relationship for obviously different reasons but in the end she was gone. Then it was constantly just Dexter doing stupid things but always acting like he was smart or methodical but he was constantly fucking up with a total lack of self awareness. It never felt like he was even competent anymore, he just seemed extremely incompetent. Then there's Debra's whole in love with my brother thing which was a stupid storyline too.
Really it became too formulaic and it wasn't even a good formula. The lumberjack being so stupid of an ending really just made it an easy way to simplify how bad the show had gotten overall. Even without that, I don't think many people would have been satisfied with how the show ended, it just would require more explanation to say how the show went downhill. Instead now all you have to say is basically that he became a lumberjack and it says just about everything for you.
I think they could have gone a different direction with Julia Stiles' character and had a very satisfying ending in 5 seasons.
The other problem was that they did the big bad thing over and over, and then they announced when Season 6 started that the show would end after 8. And in Season 6 they started introducing elements that actually carried over into Season 7, which people figured was setting up for something bigger to end the show. Then they just cut off all those plot threads and they didn't really add anything to the show at all.
Yeah I think Showtime just saw they had a hit on their hands and couldn't just accept ending the show at 5 seasons. They def could have made a better ending in season 5 or left it at season 4. They did it with Homeland too, and that shit went off the rails (though it was always a bit crazy). It's kinda the defining thing of HBO historically in a lot of ways compared to other networks, they do a better job of letting their shows end rather than making it seem like they will never have another good show ever again so they gotta run it til the wheels fall off. Even the Sopranos, which was a big turning point for HBO in terms of mainstream appeal, wasn't like they made it drag on for 10 seasons (though they did have a lot of episodes per season compared to today and that 6th season was a lot more than a normal season, they didn't pull a Walking Dead with it). Just tell a good story and let that shit end.
What's even worse is that they came back for Dexter: New Blood, and while it wasn't amazing it was definitely better than the last couple seasons... and then the ending shit the bed again.
And now they've announced they're gonna be doing a Dexter: New Blood season 2... which I can't imagine anybody is going to watch... AND a Dexter prequel... where he is an adult (out of college, when he first starts working for Miami Metro)... and not played by Michael C Hall, of course. Hrm.
I didn't even hear about that, but not surprised, because they killed any enthusiasm I had for that franchise. They basically got me with the gamblers fallacy to some extent, thinking I'm already in so much I can't possibly keep losing, but then they keep pulling that shit. It took me awhile to watch New Blood because all my enthusiasm for that show was drained, and after New Blood season 1, I can't even believe that they can continue or do any kind of spin off and do anything good either. They killed that possibility. If I wasn't watching the show as it aired every week, I would have followed a lot of the advice of watching til the end of season 4 and stopping and not watching the trainwreck to follow.
It's a lot like The Walking Dead to me. Nevermind the show got noticeably worse without Darabont, the show kept going on and on, and then they make Fear The Walking dead, which I watched the first couple episodes at least (can't remember if I even watched the whole first season or not) and that franchise is dead to me now. There's nothing they can make that draws me back in, they just killed any enthusiasm I had. Apparently it don't seem to be true for a lot because they are making shit tons of them and they dragged that show out forever so enough people kept watching, but it was done for me.
Make it end at season 3 and you’re on to a winner! It was such a good full circle moment that was totally wasted.
The original writer had the best ending I could imagine for him. Dexter about to get a lethal injection as every major villain visits him one by one, and probably his dad too.
Star Trek Picard
Spoilers
The Expanse.
while season 4 til 6 have bigger problems than just the (rushed) ending that are not easily fixed. The ending of the series in season 6 was underwhelming.
For almost two seasons, we have Marcos building up a fleet for the belters, made out of all kinds of combat ships, including martians one. Everything in these seasons feels like a built-up to an amazing space battle between an allied fleet of the combined UN and (remaining) Martian ships and those of Marcos. Only for the combat to never take place.
It's almost literally 'poof' and Marcos' ships are gone. I would change the ending to the big space fight.
The "ending" happens the way that it does for good reasons, chiefly because it's not really an ending. Season 6 intentionally ends without a big fleet-on-fleet battle against Marco to demonstrate his insignificance. He was a tool backed by a bigger player and was left to fend for himself when he was no longer needed... at which point he quickly found out how small he really was in the grand scheme of things. The credits (along with some other teases) hint that something is about to change in a big way.
There are still three books worth of story after that. The creators and the production company and the actors have all expressed their desire to adapt the rest of the story at some point but haven't spoken about any concrete plans. For now, they're creating some graphic novels which will be set during the time skip that happens between the point where the show left off and the rest of the story picks back up. There was also recently a prequel game developed by Telltale.
House of cards, season 3 and onward-
Spoilers
I like shows that have hyper competent characters. It's a fun trope. One of the things that set HoC from the rest (Breaking bad comes to mind) was that both the male lead and his wife knew exactly what they were, what they were doing, and worked together.Rather than just having him be betrayed/have issues because his wife doesn't know what he's doing, they came up with equally competent opponents for Frank to deal with, and it worked really really well.
Then S3 hits and we've got the "ahh but what if she is too power hungry plot/disagrees with him" which mostly feels like flailing and goes almost no where. Oddly, the only episodes I like from S3 are the ones where Frank and Claire are on the same page working as the ultimate sociopath team. And turns out, those are the only ones directed by the show runner of S1/2 (who did all the episodes in those seasons).
So mostly...just let him do that, and nix that entire pointless plot line. There's some interesting material to draw from the original British show, but that show so quickly went from a breath of fresh air to a total train wreck (and then uh...tripled down on that later, although I jumped ship before that)
Babylon 5
Spoilers...
Drop the awful refugee telepath subplot from Season 5. Expand Season 4 to fill the space.The end of the Second Shadow War (The Battle of Coriana VI) should really be the Season 4 finale instead of just Ep. 6. All the mopping up and aftermath should be in Season 5.
I.e.: I'd just like to have seen it paced more as it was originally intended!
If I could change anything I would let JMS have the ending as he envisioned it. At the time I was amazed at how totally inconsequential things in season 1 or 2 turned out as major plot points in later seasons. I'm sure he had an amazing ending planned out.
So much got messed up because he didn't know if he was going to get his 5th and final season. The Shadow War that was Season 4 was rushed and was supposed to be season 5. Then he did get a season 5, which, while not bad, didn't have the series ending stakes of the fight between all the races as season 4.
They were planting all sorts of storyline seeds with Ivanova that never panned out. They had to "kill off" her character instead when the actress couldn't wait around forever to see if she'd have a job or not.
Samurai Jack was initially a show about a Samurai who gets sent to the future by a demon named Aku. He spends every episode trying to help people out in the hellscape world of the future while looking for a way back to the past.
The last season has what I feel is an unnecessary focus on finally getting Jack laid. I would rewrite the last season so that all the stuff with Ashi gets condensed down to like 2 episodes. After Jack returns to the past, Ashi dies and Jack realizes that by going back in time he changed the timeline and erased everyone in the future.
Jack resolves to find a way to return to the future and restore his friends. Back in the past, Jack is no longer ageless and begins growing old as usual, but while this happens, Jack begins traveling the world searching for another portal through time. Eventually Jack finds The Guardian from the original show, and fights him again, now as an old man.
After defeating him, Jack is able to use the time portal to go back to the first episode where Aku sent him to the future in the first place, and tunnel though the portal Aku opens to get back to the future we see throughout most of the show. Jack then rallies the people of the future to lead the attack on Aku that we see earlier in the season, and after he sees the other Jack return to the past, Jack confronts Aku on the future and defeats him there as well.
Then Jack reopens the Guardians time portal and establishes a link between the future and Jack's time so they don't get erased.
I also had a huge problem with the final season. The tone is so different, it's jarring. You go from a literal kids show to an adult one. Literally an adventure of the week with no bullets or death and the antagonists gets defeated and runs away regularly. No recurring characters aside from one or two.
Then in the final season it's bleak, death, and blood. At one point, Jack makes a sex joke. This would be fine if the rest of the show was like that. It's clear the creators wanted to tell a more mature story since they were on HBO Max. But they went too far in one direction.
I will say that I appreciate how Aku was defeated. All of the people Jack helped coming to his aid was perfect. You're right though, the love story was unnecessary.
Carnivàle - a final season to explore what happens to Ben and Sofie's child at the point where the holy and infernal bloodlines mix. Heck, the child could technically become both avatars in a single person based on the in-show mythology at the point where it ended.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer should have ended with the Season 5 finale 'The Gift'. Seasons 6 & 7 didn't improve the show.
The show was cancelled by its network after five seasons. That episode was the perfect ending for the show: Buffy sacrifices herself to save her sister and the world. That is her gift to give. The show ends on the right note.
And then the show got bought by another network, and was resurrected. And so was Buffy. In the first few episodes of Season 6, Buffy wonders if she came back right. No, she didn't. At least, the show didn't. Season 6 was too dark, and Season 7 diluted the Slayer's legacy and destroyed the whole Slayer mythos. The only bright spot in those final two seasons was the musical episode, and, as great as that episode was, I'm not sure it's enough to make up for everything else that happened.
Buffy should have ended with the right finale, at the end of Season 5.
Supernatural: I would end it at Season 5 as it was originally intended. Everything after that felt tacked on and superfluous...because it was.
Make Bran’s heel turn explicit.
The pieces are there, perhaps more clearly in the books than in the show, but it really needed to be made more obvious that the entity that returned from beyond the Wall was not Bran Stark, but Bloodraven possessing his body, much like Bran possessed Hodor.
And just as Varamyr tried to possess Thistle in the books. That attempt was unsuccessful because Varamyr was not as gifted as Bran, and Thistle, as a fierce spearwife, was far more independent and strong-willed than sweet-natured, gentle and trusting Hodor—but nonetheless Varamyr’s attempt at a human Second Life establishes that it’s a possibility for powerful wargs. And Bloodraven was the most powerful warg of all. QED, His last act in his original body was tricking Bran into letting him in, becoming the unwitting host for his Second Life.
Bran refers to himself as the Three-Eyed Raven and corrects Meera Reed that he’s not Bran anymore, not really—but those little hints were not enough. Most viewers overlooked them or didn’t grasp their significance, which makes S8 impossible to rationalize otherwise.
But if we start with the premise that “Bran” is no longer the sweet kid he used to be, that that character is effectively dead or at least in a horrific “locked-in” state, unable to control the actions of his own body (as we saw from Hodor’s horror whenever Bran took him) then it all starts to make sense.
Bloodraven (AKA Brynden Rivers) was a notoriously unscrupulous, power-hungry tyrant that ended the Blackfyre Rebellions by destroying the credit of the Throne. (He promised safe passage to a Blackfyre claimant and then executed him so Aegon V could be crowned. Thus Aegon V’s first act as king was banishing Bloodraven to the Wall to restore the good name of the Realm.)
Bloodraven held many titles during his life and wielded enormous power, but he’s perhaps most famous for his role as Master of Whisperers, using his warging ability to spy on everyone in Westeros using animals, especially ravens. Thus the old riddle: How many eyes does Bloodraven have? A thousand (the ravens) and one (his one surviving eye after he lost the other in battle.)
And after Bloodraven went to the Wall, rising to the rank of Lord Commander, ranging far into the True North and eventually undergoing the process we saw Bran go through in the series, becoming the Three-Eyed Raven—what did he do? Continue to spy on all of Westeros, only now in the past as well. Whether human or supernatural, Bloodraven has always had the same MO: espionage and manipulation.
But he could not wield power from under a tree. And so he lures Bran Stark to him with the false promise that he can help him walk again, he manipulates the dreams of Jojen Reed and lets him die all to serve that end—so that he can possess a new young body, thereby cheating death yet again so he can go south and set in motion a chain of events that ends with him ruling Westeros—but not from the shadows this time, not as a Small Council member pulling strings, but out in the open, as king himself. It’s been his ambition for years before the series proper even began.
Everything that happens in S8 is the product of Bloodraven’s manipulations. He needed various claimants to the Throne to take themselves out, and he pushed them, working on their insecurities, their character flaws which he’s studied in detail, lying beneath that tree all those years, plotting, so he knew exactly which secrets to reveal, which ideas to plant, which buttons to push, to make all his rivals fall apart.
Because Bran Stark has no credible claim to anything, except Lord of Winterfell, which Bloodraven explicitly rejects! His ambitions are far loftier. I can’t be the lord of anything, he says. But he becomes Lord of the Six Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm—because everyone was exactly where they needed to be, like pieces carefully arranged on a cyvasse board.
The only way Bloodraven is seating his crippled ass on that Throne is via another Great Council ruling, much like the one he manipulated decades ago to crown Aegon V king and wipe out the last of the Blackfyres.
This is what he does, he is the ultimate schemer, putting all the others we’ve watched during the series to shame—Baelish, Varys, Pycelle? No, Brynden was the original magnificent bastard, the grandaddy of them all.
Viewing S8 through this lens, we see why Jon had to be informed of his true parentage, why Dany reacted with such paranoia and fear, why Jon then turned to his sisters for support and guidance, why Sansa’s doubts about Dany’s stability were thus confirmed, and so why she offered Tyrion her brother as a better alternative. Why Tyrion then shared the secret with one of his few remaining friends, looking for advice, and why Varys then turned around and used that information as he always has done, trying to secure the best outcome for the Realm.
It’s a domino effect, one step leading to the other, but it’s all instigated by Bran insisting that Sam tell Jon the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna. Without that revelation, much of the plot of S8 does not happen.
And if we accept Bloodraven at his word when he tells Jon he was exactly where he was supposed to be, then Bloodraven foresaw the Fall of King’s Landing.
That is to say, he knew Dany’s mental breakdown would inevitably result in the genocide of half a million people, and he carried his plan out anyway. That was an acceptable loss, so long as the net result was his election as king.
In other words, GoT ends with the bad guy winning after all, which is very much in line with the series as a whole, where the most ambitious schemers profit while the good and noble are cut down long before their time.
The ending isn’t completely nihilistic—Sansa still rules an independent North, in theory free from Bran’s nefarious influence—but as Bran’s actor himself put it, the rest of Westeros is now effectively a surveillance state. Bloodraven has become Big Brother.
Are you George Martin or either of the show runners?? Because I don’t think anyone else got that from the show. I certainly didn’t. I couldn’t believe Bran ended up being King - I hated that more than any other part of season 8. This though, is a good reason for it to be him! I wish they’d made this a little more explicit
Haha, that’s like the ultimate compliment followed by the ultimate insult!
Well, much like the show, it’s best to focus on the first half and blissfully forget the second, so thanks. 😉
And that’s not your fault. It’s impossible to discern unless you’ve read the books, or at least have some familiarity with the lore.
I’m not sure that Bloodraven’s name is even mentioned on the show. We got precious little backstory from the Three-Eyed Raven himself—I remember he said something like, I was a man, too, once. There was a brother I loved, a brother I hated, a woman I lost.
But that’s it. If you’ve only seen the show, how could you know he was referring to Daemon Blackfyre (the brother he loved) Bittersteel (the brother he hated) Shiera Seastar (the woman he lost)?
Were the Blackfyre Rebellions even mentioned on the show? Or the Great Council and the dishonor of Brynden’s last act as Hand? No.
Even Aegon V isn’t mentioned directly. At most Joffrey references him obliquely as he’s flipping through the pages of the White Book, where all the deeds of the Kingsguard are recorded. (We see it again in the finale, with Brienne writing down Jaime’s legacy.) Joffrey pauses on Dunk’s page, his adventures as Dunk and Egg (Egg would grow up to become Aegon V.)
And I’m sure somewhere in S1 someone mentioned Robert’s claim to the throne, by conquest, obviously, but also via his descent from Aegon V: through his daughter Princess Rhaelle, her son Steffon, then Robert and his brothers.
And that’s it. I think that’s all you get of Bloodraven and his whole time period. It’s just not enough to piece it all together, and that’s firmly on D&D, not the viewers.
Hopefully if GRRM ever finishes his series (a big if, I know) Bran’s status as a vessel for Bloodraven will be made more clear.
When Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran’s actor) received that script, he honestly thought it was a joke.
I feel the same. That final Great Council scene was the absolute worst of the whole show, imo.
Sure, the Long Night was a huge disappointment. But at its heart I firmly believe that this series is about people. Politics and the endless struggle for power, yes, but also what motivates people, or as GRRM puts it: the human heart at war with itself.
The supernatural stuff? It’s window dressing to move the plot forward. Even Bran’s training to become the Three-Eyed Raven is just an excuse to include lots of flashbacks to the past, filling out the lore and character backstories.
I know that’s a controversial opinion. Even in this thread someone voiced the majority view that the politics were a distraction and the real fight was between the living and the dead, etc.
But I see it exactly opposite.
Did you know that in the original draft of ASOIAF there weren’t even dragons? (More like A Song of Ice, hold the fire, amirite?) GRRM had to be convinced by a friend to include them. He mentions it in one of his dedications.
So Daenerys’ whole arc? An afterthought. And with it you can probably throw in all of House Targaryen, which is ironic since that family has pretty much taken over the whole fandom, House of the Dragon is the successor series, etc.
But in its original form, the story was all about the Starks. Jon at the Wall; widowed Cat fleeing a fallen Winterfell with Arya and Bran; Jon being honor bound to refuse them sanctuary because the Night’s Watch does not take part in the wars of the Realm. So Arya having to fight to protect her family instead. In the end it was she who defeats the Big Bad.
And of course because this is GRRM, when they reunite Jon realizes he has fallen in love with Arya, and she returns his love. ಠ_ಠ
Tyrion is also there, and is romantically involved with Arya as well. I believe it was a forced political marriage. That’s all I remember, it’s been a while since I read the synopsis…
Anyway you can see where the other characters developed to flesh things out. Arya was effectively split into Arya and Sansa, with Sansa given the forced marriage to Tyrion and all the political intrigue down in King’s Landing.
(There’s even a meta speech by Ned commenting on this fact—Sansa and Arya may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through their hearts and they need each other, just like he needs both his daughters. It’s touching and maybe my favorite quote from the whole series—but it also describes the literal creation of Arya and Sansa, a character split in two.)
Arya as the savior was kept, and her romance with Jon was thankfully transferred to Gendry, who is very much the Southron version of Jon (bastard son of a highborn—a king this time, even higher than Ned Stark’s assumed parentage of Jon Snow; a good person who rises through his own hard work and strength of character.)
Gendry represents everything his father might have been, had Robert not been indulged and spoiled his whole life. He is the very best of House Baratheon, with Stannis’ discipline, Renly’s kindness, and Robert’s strength, courage and magnanimity.
And just as Robert’s whole life was dominated by his hopeless infatuation with Lyanna Stark, and his all-consuming hatred for Rhaegar and by extension, all Targaryens—the love triangle is reconstituted in Gendry’s quiet love for Arya. As her social inferior he can never reveal it or act on it, and in the books there is another obstacle in Ned Dayne, who bares some resemblance to Rhaegar Targaryen. Arya and Gendry themselves are uncannily identical to Lyanna and Robert, a fact which is noted by several POV characters, so the whole drama becomes like a refrain of a song, only this time the relationship is grounded in friendship and solidarity, surviving terrible hardships together, unlike the superficiality of her aunt and his father’s political betrothal.
Dune Digression
It also reminds me of the gholas from Dune, where characters like Duncan Idaho are resurrected and pursue the love interests they were denied in previous lives. GRRM is a Frank Herbert fan, and there are more than a few allusions in Dorne to the Dune universe, so I don’t think that’s totally off-base. Maybe an unconscious influence?
For that matter you could even argue that, in the end, Bloodraven has made himself God Emperor of Westeros, ushering in a new age of peace and prosperity through oppressive stagnation and totalitarian rule.
In the books Arya is drawn to Gendry because he reminds her of her brothers. She’s homesick, missing Jon terribly most of all, and Gendry comforts her. She starts to build a new family, a new pack in the South with Gendry, Hot Pie, Lommy Greenhands and Weasel; only for them all to be taken from her, one by one, just like she lost her father, sister, Syrio, Jory and all their household in King’s Landing; and Mycah and Nymeria before that; which repeats again when she loses her mother and Robb at the Red Wedding, narrowly escaping with the Hound. Only to lose him later, her captor turned protector and ultimately, her surrogate father and last known tie to Westeros.
Arya’s arc is all about love and family, how it’s ripped from her again and again, how she copes by first trying to rebuild and then losing hope, shedding her identity and giving herself over to her quest for vengeance. In the final season I wanted to see her complete her arc, realize that it was home and family she always wanted, that vengeance is self-destructive, and to recover from her loss of self as a Faceless Man and resume her identity as Arya Stark and all that entails. Become her father’s daughter once again, the honorable savior, the true knight she was in her original inception.
The problem with the later seasons is, while they deliver on some of these points, it’s such a rushed jumble that none of the beats are given any time to breathe. The significance is lost.
Yes, Arya does defeat the Waif and reclaims her identity as she leaves Braavos, but these are merely words. When she returns to Westeros, her first act is Frey Pie, which was Lord Manderly’s revenge in the books, not Arya’s.
Similarly it is Lady Stoneheart, the resurrected Catelyn Stark who, with the help of the corrupted Brotherhood Without Banners, hangs every Frey and Lannister she can lay hands on—culminating in her near execution of Brienne and Pod. (For failing in her mission to trade Jaime Lannister for Arya and Sansa.)
In the show Lady Stoneheart was completely eliminated, and the Brotherhood Without Banners was repurposed for the Wight Hunt, possibly the dumbest idea Tyrion ever had, and that’s saying something. So much for the clever lion, huh? The only in-universe explanation is brain damage after decades of alcoholism.
Arya came home to Winterfell physically, but mentally she still had the mindset of a Faceless Man. She fulfills her destiny as the Hero of Winterfell, but pushes everyone who loves her away, running back South to kill Cersei. Sandor finally persuades her that life is more important than vengeance, she tries to save as many people as she can, culminating with that heartbreaking death of mother and child—but in the end she mounts a pale horse and rides off… to nowhere. She puts in a perfunctory appearance at the Great Council then announces she’s sailing West of Westeros, running away again. She’s never stopped running. It’s not triumphant or exciting as D&D suggest with the soundtrack, it’s just sad. Run, Weasel, run as far as you can, run and hide and never come back.
I could probably do this with each of the major characters, by the way. Of the whole lot, only Sansa got the ending she deserved. And I have objections to that one, too. (Harry the Heir, with Sweetrobin’s glow-up taking his place, however the impossibility of cementing her Vale + Riverlands alliances now that she’s placed herself and all the North outside of the Six Kingdoms. Also the precarious position of the North regarding their winter food stores, the tremendous loss of life they sustained during the Long Night, renewed enmity with Yara and the Ironborn, with no navy or army to speak of to fend them off, not until their numbers recover, which won’t be for another generation, at least. And then there’s the question of the succession. The girls are House Stark’s only shot at producing legitimate heirs. Sansa has experienced unspeakable sexual trauma and is unlikely to ever marry again, and Arya has just run off to drown herself in the Sunset Sea. If they both die heirless, doesn’t the North pass on to their younger brother, i.e., revert to Southron rule?)
And so on and so forth. With every major character, with every major plot point, you get the impression that D&D simply didn’t think it through.
Well I wish you were one of the show runners because you obviously have a lot of knowledge and a very strong ability to explain it to others! This was another great write up. You’re like an ASOIAF scholar.
I actually have read the books, but a long time ago so by the time the show ran I had forgotten most of what happened in them!
I much prefer your idea for Aryas arc (and I’m so glad Martin abandoned his original plan for her. Yikes); it makes a lot more sense from her backstory than her show arc. Actually I prefer your ideas for everyone.
This feels like an inadequate response compared to your long and detailed one! I loved reading your insights, thank you.
Well, thank you. You’re very kind. :)
Lol, yeah. I don’t know why incest is such a recurring theme in his work. I guess he does it for the shock value.
Arya was spared that thankfully, but Jon wasn’t. Yet another failing of S7 and S8 was the Jonerys relationship. Both the actors were really not into it. They’d known each other for years, I believe Emilia even attended Kit’s wedding, they thought of each other as family, and you could really tell. The lack of chemistry translated on the screen.
You contrast that with Jon and Ygritte, for example, where the actors were genuinely falling in love with each other to the extent that they’re now married with kids—it’s like night and day.
Of course real life shouldn’t affect the performance, but how can it not? Actors are human, too.
I don’t want to be too much of a Debbie Downer, though. There is one part of the series I thought was a massive improvement on the books, and that’s Arya’s time at Harrenhal serving as Tywin’s cupbearer. I loved every scene they had together, definitely the highlight of that season.
I also much preferred the show version of Sandor’s fatherly love for Arya, which is more developed onscreen than it was in the books. And the climax during the Long Night, when Sandor is routing like he did at the Blackwater because of the fire—but then he sees Arya is in trouble and goes back to save his little girl!
Just wonderful. He overcomes his most primal fear for love of her. It’s perfect.
Not at all! Your response was lovely.
I enjoy going on a GOT / ASOIAF rant every now and then, so thank you for indulging me.
Arya and the hound’s relationship was absolutely a strong point for me too, it was beautifully shown. In fact, I think the show did friendship quite well, overall - much better than it did romantic relationships anyway! And from memory better than the books, though as I said it was a long time ago. The friendship between Brienne and Jamie was also great (and I think would have been stronger without the unrequited love element).
YES.
As buddies, that relationship really worked.
As a drunken one night stand, it was exploitative and cheap.
For Brienne, I really did prefer Tormund for her. I know it’s shownly and for comic relief more than anything, but I think Tormund genuinely admired and loved her.
Free Folk culture values strength above all, in women and men. So from Tormund’s perspective, Brienne really was the most beautiful woman he’d ever seen.
Perhaps it was one-sided, but that’s because Brienne barely knew him. She never gave him a chance, she was so hung up on Jaime. 🙄
That’s Brienne’s pattern. She falls for guys who are emotionally unavailable. Renly or Jaime, they’re both in love with other people.
Also this is probably the hottest of my hot takes, lol, but the only incest ship I enjoy in ASOIAF is Jaime and Cersei. I see it as GRRM’s take on Lancelot and Guinevere, and in that light it really works for me. The chivalric ideal of a knight’s hopeless love for his unavailable queen, the angst, the betrayal. This is classic genre stuff for a medieval fantasy setting. It’s just… 👌
I suppose Robert is King Arthur in that analogy, which is laughable I know, but I have a soft spot for Bobby B. To paraphrase what I said earlier, I see him as a failed version of Gendry. He has his moments where you see the greatness he might have been, if only he’d had a firmer hand in his upbringing, if only he had learned self control.
Specifically, I’m thinking of his generosity, his willingness to forgive and forget, his eagerness to make friends where others (e.g., his brother Stannis) would hold grudges and make enemies. Robert forgave the Storm Lords who rose against him at the beginning of his Rebellion and won them over to his side. (Stannis urged Robert to execute them, but Robert ignored him.) Those lords fought bravely for Robert after he converted them, I think most of them died fighting for him. He inspired real love and devotion.
When Balon Greyjoy rose against him, again he could have executed him for treason. But he didn’t, because he admired Balon’s stubborn courage, how fiercely he fought. He forced him to bend the knee, surrender and give his last remaining son to Ned Stark to raise as his ward and implicit hostage—but he let Balon and his wife and daughter live. He showed mercy.
He was always generous to the smallfolk. He loved tourneys and feasts, literally spreading his wealth around to make the common people fat and happy. They truly loved Robert, he brought the good times, he made the economy boom. It was all financed through horrible deficit spending, he ran the kingdom into enormous debt—but he just loved making people happy. And you know what? He actually spent less money than the Lannisters. Wars swallow gold like a pit in the earth. All his silly entertainments stimulated the economy, whereas the Lannisters’ wars brought only death, suffering and famine.
The average person in Westeros would mourn Baratheon rule, I think. It’s the closest to Camelot they’d had in many years, maybe not since Aegon V.
The worst thing about him was his blind hatred, his insatiable rage for anyone Targaryen. But we know that’s motivated by losing the love of his life, and I find that tragic and beautiful in its way. His love for Lyanna was deluded and unrequited, but it was real for him. Decades later, he never fails to honor her memory.
And in dying he tried to rescind his death warrant on Daenerys. Let the girl live.
Bobby B was so close to being a good king. He just let his personal demons get the best of him.
As for Jaime, what a fabulous character he was. In his heart he was like Arya—he aspired to be a true knight like his idol Arthur Dayne (changed to Barristan Selmy for the show.)
He was put in an impossible position when the Mad King ordered him to bring him his own father’s head, and in breaking his Kingsguard oath and slaying Aerys, he also saved the entire population of King’s Landing from dying in wildfire, postponing the apocalypse until the Mad King’s daughter finished what her father started…
Robert pardoned Jaime, too, and Barristan Selmy, and allowed them to keep their positions on the Kingsguard.
Jaime became a dirty cloak, the Kingslayer, and outwardly he pretended not to care, but we saw with Brienne how distraught he was for his lost honor. How he wanted to be remembered not as an oathbreaker, but as an Oathkeeper, the name he gives the sword he entrusts to Brienne to keep Catelyn’s daughters safe, and keep her promise, as he had hoped to keep his.
The way he grew to recognize Brienne’s virtues, how she embodied the chivalric ideals that had once been his, how he encouraged her to be the knight he wished he could have been—that was all great.
Their relationship evolved from meanspirited ridicule to mutual respect and genuine admiration. It was another variation on the teacher-student dynamic that ASOIAF also does very well.
Usually it’s wholesome, like Jaime and Brienne grew to be, and Brienne and Pod were from the beginning. Or Arya and her many, many mentors.
But even when it’s not (Cersei and Sansa, Littlefinger and Sansa) it’s still quality drama.
With Jamie and Cersei it made sense - it was like the ultimate act of narcissism, at least on Cerseis part. It seemed that way for Jamie too at first but after learning more of his backstory I come to agree with your assessment that it was a type of blind devotion to someone he saw as above him, that her manipulation lead astray.
Great point about the mentor/mentee relationships too. I also like the familial relationships… really I think he just writes poor “romantic” relationships (in quotes because so much of it was non-consensual) - the other types of relationship work very well
More than any other character I think Cersei changed the most from books to show.
For the Cersei of the books, yes, I agree with you. It was the ultimate act of narcissism. Book Cersei really only cares about herself. Everything and everyone she values are just extensions of herself—Jaime, her children, her approval-seeking from daddy, wanting to preserve and expand the Lannister legacy to please him—it’s all just me, me, me.
Show Cersei I find way more complex than that. She’s one of my favorite characters for that reason. On one level, yes, she is also narcissistic and selfish.
But I believe her love for her children and Jaime are genuine. And not just her children with Jaime, either.
Book Cersei aborted Robert’s children and took every precaution not to give him a trueborn heir. After arranging his death, she ruthlessly had all his bastards murdered. And even when he was alive, she threatened to kill his eldest daughter, Mya Stone, should he bring her to the capital like he wanted.
Show Cersei could not be more different. One of my favorite scenes from S1 is when she visits Catelyn at Bran’s bedside, and tells her the story of how she lost the black-haired beauty. Her grief is genuine. She wanted that child, the bird without feathers, and she raged when they took the lifeless body from her. Robert pounded his fists bloody against the walls, but when she needed him, he held her and they mourned their son together.
Totally night and day from her book incarnation, right? Not only does she not abort Robert’s baby, losing that child is one of the most traumatic events of her life.
Years later she and Robert drink together, and she asks him if he could have ever loved her. And she confesses that she felt something for him, even after they’d lost their son, for quite a while actually.
Book Cersei always loathed Robert. It was Rhaegar she wanted to marry, never him. The night before her wedding she fucks Jaime just to deny Robert his rights even before the marriage was consummated. She’s motivated by pure hateful spite—even though she’s also power-seeking, desperate to be queen.
It’s self-destructive and stupid. Cersei’s power comes from her marriage to Robert, and yet in the books she undermines her own marriage from the outset.
Meanwhile Show Cersei honestly tries to make her marriage work. Even after Robert drunkenly whispers Lyanna in her ear when he’s inside her for the first time, she still tries to do her duty by her husband, still tries to give him a son.
And most consequentially—Show Cersei never murders the bastards. In her conversation with Tyrion, the show establishes that that was fully Joffrey’s act, Cersei just assumed the blame for it.
I love this change.
Not only is it more in line with Joffrey’s sadism to commit such a heinous act, ripping babies from their mother’s arms and killing them in front of them (Barra at Littlefinger’s brothel) it also shows the lengths Cersei is ready to go to in order to protect her offspring.
She knows Joffrey is evil. She’s known that since he cut the kittens out of the kitchen cat when he was barely a toddler. But she will do anything to hide his evil from the world, if that will secure his rule. Even if that means she takes on the role of the villain, dirtying her own reputation so her son can keep his secrets a little while longer.
Meanwhile Robert abdicates all responsibility for his children’s upbringing. In the books, this is because Cersei forbids him from disciplining his own children, which is beyond stupid. When Joffrey brings Robert the dead kittens with a smile on his face, Robert slaps him so hard he knocks his baby teeth out. And Cersei threatens to kill him in his sleep if he ever does it again.
But that’s exactly what that little psychopath needed. Brutal discipline. A stern father figure to put the fear of the gods into him. Book Cersei’s coddling just made Joffrey even more of a monster than he already was.
In the show Robert just doesn’t give a damn, which is on him.
And Jaime is no help, either. He never tries to discipline his kids, either, book or show. He never tries to be a father to any of them, except Myrcella just before her death.
So I have sympathy for Cersei as a de facto single mom—in her show incarnation, that is. There she would have welcomed the help, whereas in the books she deliberately pushed it away.
In Cersei’s drunken confessions to Sansa at the Blackwater, and in Tywin’s scenes with Arya at Harrenhal, we learn what Cersei was like as a girl. Willful and adventurous, she wanted to do everything Jaime would do, learning how to wield sword and lance, learning to fight instead of learning to please. She’s an Arya forced to live like a Sansa, and the repression poisoned her character, made her bitter and twisted.
Tywin even states this boldly: he tells Arya she reminds him of his daughter.
It’s a totally different take on the queen that’s missing from the books, and so much more interesting psychologically. No wonder she’s so warped. She’s been forced to live a lie her whole life.
Once again, in the later seasons, the distinction blurs. Lena Headey was basically given nothing to do in S8, though her character degradation began long before that. Such a waste of a talented actress and an intriguing character.
MLP: FiM. However, such an improved ending would require rewriting the final three (or four) seasons so the episodes have any overall continuity instead of occasional continuity dumps. As written, it works better as a Harry Potter epilogue: a tribute to the writers and VAs who spent a decade on the show that it best ignored by the fans.
I'm stumped by this one!
I’m going to guess My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Oh ok, the Harry Potter reference completely threw me. Thanks!
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
As the others said, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
I don't have a recommended ending but I would have liked to see endings for Duckman and My Name is Earl. They deserved it
The showrunner for My Name is Earl talked about how he would have liked for it to end.
Duckman was an amazing show. I don't know why it's mostly forgotten.
How I Met Your Mother.
Ted Mosby should have ended up alone.
Ted is an idealistic, neurotic, completely disfunctional romantic. In a way, he is worst than Barney because at least Barney is honest with himself. He's an asshole, and he's okay with it. Ted? Well, he is also an asshole, but he thinks he's just a fool in love.
Ted Mosby never loved a woman. Women, to him, are only vessels through which he stages his fascination with the idea and the emotions of being in love. They're immaterial to him.
If Ted Mosby found the perfect woman, he would be so miserable, he would find a way to fuck it up. No one will ever be enough for him.
Maybe there's someone out there that Ted Mosby deserves, but no one deserves Ted Mosby.
So, here's my rewrite: Ted Mosby fucks up with the umbrella girl. Maybe he says her name wrong at the wedding (like Ross). Maybe Victoria the Baker shows up and he cheats on umbrella girl with her. And then Victoria runs away again, he loses both, and tries his luck with Robin, who rejects him. They remain great friends, no one knows him more than her. In the final scene, they're older, and Ted tries to convince her that this new "senior" girl is really the one and this time is different. Robin breaks the fourth wall and smiles at the camera. We all know what she's thinking. THE END.
Edit: Oops, forgot it was tv show and I posted movie. Sorry. I'll leave what I said anyway if ok.
Not a rewrite as such but the ending of The Shawshank Redemption.
Spoiler
I would have been perfectly happy with it ending with Red on that bus as a free man.
I’m potentially the only person heavily invested in this show, but I was deeply disappointed by the ending of Castle.
I loved everything about Kate (Stana Katic). She was a compelling and complex character, her backstory story was incredibly tragic and interesting, and the romantic tension they built up with Richard (Nathan Fillion) over four seasons is the best I’ve ever seen.
Once they broke that romantic tension though, the show understandably struggled to maintain the same level of intrigue. That’s not its biggest failing though, as I think there was enough momentum behind the characters and plot to carry it. But the final seasons became a nonsensical train wreck.
Behind the scenes, there was apparently conflict amongst the cast and crew, which I can confidently say bled into the narrative. The final episode, due to cancellation, is so unsatisfying and contrived that I’ve only watched it the one time. Those first four seasons were pure magic though, particularly season four, and I’ll continue to rewatch them for years to come. I think the story could’ve more or less ended there, though there’s a few loose ends that would need to be tied up.
I don’t know if movie-turned-tv-saga counts, but it was really disappointing to me that Vegeta did not kill Freeza at the end of the Dragon Ball Super Resurrection F movie/saga.
You have (I’m guessing) the most popular character and he’s never been the final hero, and bringing back the villain for him that wiped out his entire race is the perfect time to do that and show the his character growth in that time…and it just winds up being a Goku win again. Really the whole ending of it was just weird and let downy
I give the later dragon ball stuff a lot of leeway, and basically just go in with a “shut off the brain and let 10 year old you cheer on Goku and the gang” kind of thing, but ending of that one was just suuuuuuper meh
Would have much rather it ended with Freeze being an actual threat that Vegeta is able to defeat, but would have even been fine if he was still a pushover and gave time to Vegeta’s character growth instead before defeating him. Instead it all just falls so flat
In the spirit of the-editing-room.com:
SHE-HULK S01E09 - PROPER ENDING
ELONGATED MUSKRAT injects the serum and JESSICA HULK turns to the camera.
JESSICA HULK
Are you feeling this? 'Cause I'm not.
JESSICA then looks back at ELONGATED just in time to see him DIE HORRIBLY.
ELONGATED MUSKRAT
I-I can feel it working!
(dies)
CROWD OF RETREAT ATTENDEES
(panics and flees into the night)
JESSICA HULK
Wait! Come back! I need deets so I can sue you all!
BLONSKI
Oh that's not a problem, I've got credit card receipts for all of them.
JESSICA works with MATT DAREDEVIL to SUE the CROWD of antags BEYOND RECOGNITION.
END.