hitherandthither's recent activity
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentI think that's right - but I feel that "just misogynists" cuts the analysis short of the true root cause. Not that I've necessarily figured these men out completely.I think that's right - but I feel that "just misogynists" cuts the analysis short of the true root cause. Not that I've necessarily figured these men out completely.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither (edited )Link ParentThank you for your thoughts, really. I've added a sort of summary to the OP. I'll call this thread closed for now. I'll see what kind of progress I can make on actually re-organizing my thoughts...Thank you for your thoughts, really.
I've added a sort of summary to the OP. I'll call this thread closed for now. I'll see what kind of progress I can make on actually re-organizing my thoughts before my next date. Just a set of instructions wouldn't be enough to measure any success.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentOkay. I do think I can read the vibe enough to know when not to do that. But I also don't think it's wrong to offer more than people normally would. Shortly after meeting my current best friend he...Okay. I do think I can read the vibe enough to know when not to do that. But I also don't think it's wrong to offer more than people normally would.
Shortly after meeting my current best friend he started opening up to me that he was not enjoying his job and was feeling uncomfortable about quitting. I didn't quite know what he needed but figured it couldn't hurt to have more of a financial safety net. I was in the position to gift him $5,000 - no strings attached - if it would make him happier at a new job. He let me know that it wasn't a matter of money and politely declined, but I think that was the turning point for when he decided to lean into the friendship more.
Again - I get it that being uncommonly generous, with money or time, can get suspicious. So I'm not always that way. But it still seems to be a virtue.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentI'm just going to guess. I think some people love the idea of predefined gender roles. Outside of these antiquated systems there aren't any popular gender role memes (to use meme in the original...I'm just going to guess. I think some people love the idea of predefined gender roles. Outside of these antiquated systems there aren't any popular gender role memes (to use meme in the original sense of the word). Adopting an existing gender/gender role system might be comforting to those that aren't able to build a gender identity from the ground up.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentWant to follow up because I realized there may have been a difference in definition here. When I say "giving love" I don't mean "experience a rush of oxytocin when I think about you". I mean...But re-read what you wrote: you're already at "giving someone my love" which is like step twelve.
Want to follow up because I realized there may have been a difference in definition here. When I say "giving love" I don't mean "experience a rush of oxytocin when I think about you". I mean taking care of someone. Putting effort into them. Finding things they need help with and offering them my time. That's something you can do from day one.
But it takes a while before people open up enough to see the things they need help with.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentThank you! For me the best things in any kind of relationship come with time. I'm learning through this thread that online dating is not a one-size-fits-all solution to dating and my process...Thank you!
For me the best things in any kind of relationship come with time. I'm learning through this thread that online dating is not a one-size-fits-all solution to dating and my process doesn't seem to match it. Knowing how I've come to know my friends, I am more than comfortable with a first date being luke-warm, a second and third being more comfortable, and subsequent dates just starting to get into the good stuff.
Online dating could still work with enough attempts made. But I'm already thinking of good ways I can expand my social group using the connections I've made in the last year.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentIt's hard for me to get someone on a deep enough level to where I understand why they feel how they do about different things. Equally, I don't think people usually understand where I'm coming...It's hard for me to get someone on a deep enough level to where I understand why they feel how they do about different things. Equally, I don't think people usually understand where I'm coming from for quite a while. My sense of humor can be a turn off for some women - I like to tease my friends and naturally extend to doing that with women I'm dating. Sometimes I worry they perceive this as negging but it's really affection.
Some of my strongest virtues are things that aren't immediately obvious. Some people are so outwardly friendly and that's a great trait that gets demonstrated within seconds. My best friend, who is great at telling people what they're good at, says I am "the person he knows with by far the most integrity" - and he knows a lot of people. He's also said I'm very "even keeled", which is a great trait to have when under pressure. But these aren't the kinds of things that you'd appreciate within a few hours of knowing me. What you might instead see is:
- "Hmm he's not very emotionally engaged most of the time"
- "Hmm he's very focused on setting his own rules and following them"
and not:
- "He told me he'd be here today 8 months ago and even though it was a burden to follow through he did it"
- "He worries about people in need and donates blood as often as they'll let him just to make sure that he has a positive impact on the world"
- "His car broken down in the middle of nowhere, tow company refused to come but he managed to fix everything and make it to a hotel"
I often wish that humans lived as we did thousands of years ago, in small villages where people live in close proximity for years. I can acknowledge that initially a lot of people will see me and not see many reasons to get closer. But my female and male friends that spend a lot of time around me are always trying to match-make and wingman/wingwoman for me. The people that know me best consistently understand who I am, the life I'm living, and that many women would love that. But I think trying to actively sell myself on these traits is impossible, like trying to tell someone "oh you'll love me I'm soooo humble".
So I don't know how to sell people on me. I'm currently not the "fun guy" you just can't have a bad time with. That's not a bad thing to become and if I can move towards it - that's awesome! My friends and I have good times but they're usually pretty low key and involve a lot of pure conversation.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentI don't think I'm viewing a female partner as a marker of success. More so acknowledging I would enjoy having a spouse, want to have biological children, and if I can find someone that's also a...I don't think I'm viewing a female partner as a marker of success. More so acknowledging I would enjoy having a spouse, want to have biological children, and if I can find someone that's also a good friend and we like taking care of each other that's clearly an additive thing in my life.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentI'm sorry dude. I was bullied at times as well.I'm sorry dude. I was bullied at times as well.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentWell it's not necessarily one thing or another. I think this thread has been helpful. As time has gone on I've narrowed my search, increased the intensity of my intentions, and sort of blindly...Well it's not necessarily one thing or another. I think this thread has been helpful. As time has gone on I've narrowed my search, increased the intensity of my intentions, and sort of blindly hoped that would lead me to success by filtering people early on. But I've actually had worse success as I've done that. Back when I started I knew what I was looking for but did have more of an attitude of "just go out there and meet some people". I knew I had no idea what I was doing and expected a lot of failure to start.
So I'll try to shift back to how I started, but now with more experience.
And I'll continue going to therapy :P
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentLast one was more interesting. We biked around town and visited a couple of pretty gardens. Usually it's coffee and a walk through a park (ideally a dog park). I've been very open here and may...Last one was more interesting. We biked around town and visited a couple of pretty gardens. Usually it's coffee and a walk through a park (ideally a dog park).
I've been very open here and may have given the impression that I run a date by going through a checklist - freaking the poor girl out. I think the issue is more a bit of nervous talking and not enough active listening. I do get some second, third, fourth dates.
Of the people I've gone on more than 3 dates with:
- I didn't quite find her attractive, but she was very pleasant and smart and I was hoping to see if time would make her more attractive to me. After 4 dates I didn't feel any more attracted and didn't want to break her heart so I cut things off.
- She was a couple years younger than me and was a bit immature. Honestly I should have had a conversation with her to figure things out - discuss how I felt. She was very into me and I definitely thought she had some nice traits.
- We dated for a month until she said she was going to see someone else exclusively. Then a couple weeks later she said she'd lied and there never was anyone and she was just scared. So I kept seeing her for 3 months total. I had her over a couple of times - we didn't have sex but did kiss a few times, get comfy on the couch, and cooked a little bit for each other. But she was always very sensitive about me coming to her place. There was always a reason I couldn't be there and she was very bad about answering her phone. I got incredibly anxious and suspected I was a side piece. We stopped seeing each other with the intention of reconnecting later when she said she'd have more time for a relationship. When I reached out she said she was with someone else.
For girls #2 and #3 they were both some of the most attractive of the women I've dated. I suspect this isn't just chance and that part of the lack of interest from the women I'm dating is they're confused I'm not more attracted to them.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentWay ahead of you. I'm not thinking about sex at all on a first date.Don't spend an hour looking for 'the hint' because it's not coming
Way ahead of you. I'm not thinking about sex at all on a first date.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentThanks for your input. It's definitely appreciated. I think it's rare that I have any kind of "in the moment" purely social enjoyment with a stranger. With people that I've been friends with for...Thanks for your input. It's definitely appreciated.
I think it's rare that I have any kind of "in the moment" purely social enjoyment with a stranger. With people that I've been friends with for years or decades, sure. With my brothers, absolutely. But on a first date just "making her laugh over coffee" isn't easy.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentAs a child I was evaluated by a psychologist. I remember her saying "nothing hits the radar screen". But I was also the kind of child to lie to a psychologist to avoid any special attention. So I...As a child I was evaluated by a psychologist. I remember her saying "nothing hits the radar screen". But I was also the kind of child to lie to a psychologist to avoid any special attention. So I don't necessarily take that clean report on face value.
I definitely suspect I have some kind of neurodivergence.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentYeah. I've been working trying to figure out why I feel that way. I don't think I have any trauma... I have varying degrees of that state of mind. I don't think anything that intense comes across....Yeah. I've been working trying to figure out why I feel that way. I don't think I have any trauma...
I have varying degrees of that state of mind. I don't think anything that intense comes across. But it's always in there - even if a few layers down.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentI don't know. Even thinking about "just having fun" with dating seems frightening to me. What does that even mean? Why would I find monogamy insufficient? If I'm giving someone my love it means...There's a lot of desire to just have fun or do certain things in life before 'settling down'.
I don't know. Even thinking about "just having fun" with dating seems frightening to me. What does that even mean? Why would I find monogamy insufficient? If I'm giving someone my love it means too much to spread around. Just having sex with someone doesn't seem interesting.
I'm in my late 20s. But I've never thought of non-monogamy as appealing.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentIt's basically 1-2 hours of trying to figure out what's happening as it's happening. Which written out sounds real shitty.It's basically 1-2 hours of trying to figure out what's happening as it's happening. Which written out sounds real shitty.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentYeah I... wasn't expecting that to be a winning approach.Yeah I... wasn't expecting that to be a winning approach.
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Comment on I'm generally confused about dating women in ~life.men
hitherandthither Link ParentAgreed that psychedelics are helpful. I took a small dose recently and made some progress.Agreed that psychedelics are helpful. I took a small dose recently and made some progress.
Thank you! I was raised with a strong ethical foundation and I use that tool constantly. That makes me feel safe from criticism as I don't believe I've done anything wrong (I define "wrong" as hurting people, most wrong being intentionally hurting people).
There have been a small number of assumptions about me made here by various commenters that aren't true. Like that I could be just using people to fix loneliness, just trying to seek out sex under a false premise, merely viewing women as a status object. Were they true then maybe I'd feel more guilty. I think it's more that I'm very good at delayed gratification and goal seeking, perhaps to a fault. I also generally reject collective knowledge and try to build an understanding on my own, from the ground up, with the Socratic method. And that works fine for a one-person system, but not as much for an intimate multi-person system.
I think part of the relationship development process will need to be walking together with someone through the mental framework I've built and aligning with the other person as we do that together - rather than trying to fit that person into the mold and rejecting them once they don't match. Selecting an appropriate starting point and limiting the speed here are hopefully enough to keep it from being too intense or inappropriate.