imnotgoats's recent activity
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentRight, but Deimos is directly looking at being a bit more like reddit in other ways. Absolutely not opposed to this - I think it makes sense. I think there being a lot of reddit refugees here...To me, this approach feels like a gut reaction to try and adapt Tildes to the void left by reddit, rather than consider what has made Tildes successful and give yourself time to get used to absorbing content via the Tildes philosophy.
Right, but Deimos is directly looking at being a bit more like reddit in other ways.
I think we need to give time for the reddit exodus to calm down and tackle this problem at a more stable time. But I value the discussion on this now regardless.
Absolutely not opposed to this - I think it makes sense. I think there being a lot of reddit refugees here means this post, and the responses are really useful for people to get more of a feeling of this site. The spirit of my post was absolutely "what are people's views", rather than "I want Tildes to change for me".
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentA specific place where it feels appropriate to post it. The potential ability for people that don't want to see it to avoid it (potentially covered by Deimos' post in my edit above). Where people...- A specific place where it feels appropriate to post it.
- The potential ability for people that don't want to see it to avoid it (potentially covered by Deimos' post in my edit above).
Where people are talking about creative subjects in ~creative, it feels like it could be somewhat annoying and self-focused to just pop up with "I made this thing, here's why I made it and here's how!". If I were browsing ~creative and more people were doing that, browsing creative would get more annoying for both types of users. At that point, there's a possibility the two intents would be separated anyway. So why not wait until then, when more people are posting that stuff? Because I believe there is a chilling effect that makes people feel unwelcome in doing that (which I don't even think is a bad thing).
If there were a place specifically for people to post that (like ~creative.gallery), it would be more welcoming an inviting to people who want to share such things and those who subscribe know what they are getting.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentYep, I'm behind this approach. I mentioned in other comments, and my main post edit that I'm super in favour of having minimum text required with your post. The main thing is really having a...Yep, I'm behind this approach. I mentioned in other comments, and my main post edit that I'm super in favour of having minimum text required with your post.
The main thing is really having a subgroup so people can say "I am posting my artwork in the right place, and people are expecting there to be artwork here". At the moment, there is a chilling effect in that regard, because there's no place where you don't feel like you're getting in the way of other conversations. It's worth noting that I also am thinking about Deimos' 'independent group' post, which will possibly answer the 'but I don't want to see it in my feed' issue.
I do feel like a few people have got the wrong idea about my post, and I've really tried to clarify. What I'm not suggesting is hosting images or allowing them all over the site - as we both mentioned, you can already post links. I do think it would be good to have areas that specifically encourage high quality posts with images for discussion.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI understand your angle. I am talking, though, about specific groups for posting creative content, not just pulling a switch and allowing images site-wide.I understand your angle. I am talking, though, about specific groups for posting creative content, not just pulling a switch and allowing images site-wide.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentYeah, I don't like the idea of full images in feeds either. My suggestion was more based around having a place to share creative content, potentially with thumbs, but essentially still link posts...Yeah, I don't like the idea of full images in feeds either. My suggestion was more based around having a place to share creative content, potentially with thumbs, but essentially still link posts (with added text).
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI think some people have glossed over some of my post (or I might not have been as clear as I intended) - I absolutely agree about this. Nuance is the key. My thoughts really were about doing...I think some people have glossed over some of my post (or I might not have been as clear as I intended) - I absolutely agree about this. Nuance is the key. My thoughts really were about doing things in a very limited and controlled way that do not damage the current community approach.
I was even thinking, based on @Deimos post about independent communities, that they could keep the whole of Tildes as it is at group level (default subscribed), then have the sub-groups be the user moderated ones, and only allow images at that level (and it could still have certain extra restrictions). That way, people subscribed to the main (current) groups still get the same, text-based experience they know and love, and those who want to actively subscribe to subgroups see only the content they've asked for.
That may not be the spirit of the site currently, but 'subreddit-style' groups are being considered, so this could surely fit relatively comfortably with that.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI think this is completely reasonable. The reason I posted it was because I wanted to understand people's views more, especially on the back of Deimos asking the userbase for opinions on how the...As a new refugee myself, I think all of us new users need to step back and 'absorb the culture' for a few months before suggesting any changes on Tildes.
I think this is completely reasonable. The reason I posted it was because I wanted to understand people's views more, especially on the back of Deimos asking the userbase for opinions on how the site should change regarding independent communities and default subscriptions.
I hope it came across in my post, but this was intended to be a conversation about what people think, rather than "I want this thing, can we have this thing?".
Thanks for the repsonse!
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentThank you for your response. I agree with the majority of this but do want to point out I'm talking specifically about groups where linked images are encouraged, rather than any images being seen...Thank you for your response. I agree with the majority of this but do want to point out I'm talking specifically about groups where linked images are encouraged, rather than any images being seen as negative to community engagement. My thought is really that it's not the format, but how the site and the community handle it.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentYeah I can definitely sense a few sighs coming through in some people's comments. I didn't want to be that person coming in all wet behind the ears and making noise - sometimes it's hard to...In part, it's because a lot of recent reddit refugees have asked about it, and the long-time Tildes users want to ensure that the Tildes culture doesn't get washed away in that. So I don't think anyone will really be open to the idea untill long after the exodus dies down and the question hasn't been asked for quite a while.
Yeah I can definitely sense a few sighs coming through in some people's comments. I didn't want to be that person coming in all wet behind the ears and making noise - sometimes it's hard to recognise if you're part of an annoying trend, so I hope I haven't put too many noses out of joint.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI mean, that's completely reasonable, and why I was interested in getting people's takes. I read an interesting post (which I may try and find and credit later), likening Tildes to a pub or some...I'm not even saying there isn't a way it could be done to preserve quality- just that it's a dangerous road to go down, and I'd prefer Tildes err on the side of preserving the quality we already have.
I mean, that's completely reasonable, and why I was interested in getting people's takes. I read an interesting post (which I may try and find and credit later), likening Tildes to a pub or some such establishment, rather than a government (like lots of wide-net social communities seem to be aiming for). The differentiation being that one is governed by house rules rather than some notion of individual rights. I don't think the road has to be dangerous, as long as there is thought and care put in to each step, with the ability to roll things back. Caution is important, I just don't think images have to create a quality drop - it's more about how they fit into the existing culture and sitet experience.
I do completely accept your reservations though, and appreciate your responding.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI was actually thinking about this after reading Deimos' own suggestions about increasing the moderation team and potentially allowing some kind of independent moderating in groups.Post-level moderation is 100% manual, and currently dependent on only one person: Deimos. He is the only person who can moderate topics, such as by removing them. That model doesn't scale up very well.
I was actually thinking about this after reading Deimos' own suggestions about increasing the moderation team and potentially allowing some kind of independent moderating in groups.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentThank you for the response. Absolutely, that's a massive concern - but one which I think would be covered if and when Deimos makes changes involving default subscriptions and independent...Thank you for the response.
If I wanted to see a feed full of photos and other images, then I would be on Instagram or Facebook right now. I also didn't subscribe to any image-based subreddits on Reddit, because that's not what I want to see.
Absolutely, that's a massive concern - but one which I think would be covered if and when Deimos makes changes involving default subscriptions and independent sub-communities, as they suggest in the recent post.
The only circumstance under which I would be even slightly favourable toward Tildes hosting image posts would be if all images had to be embedded in a text topic, with a minimum word count (50 words?), so that people would be required to explain something about why they've posted the image here for discussion.
I've actually suggested this myself earlier in the thread. I'm definitely behind an approach like this. Even linking off the site like a normal link post (rather than showing the full image inline). Also, restricted to certain groups - not just anywhere.
My main point is the nuance of this situation. Rather than images being the problem, there's a chance it's other sites' implementation of images that would pose more of a threat to this community. Tildes could potentially do it in a Tildes way - which I thought was at least worth talking about.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentAh, I see. So, my suggestion wasn't intended to be for inline images, just that there were groups that encouraged the posting of OC image links (possibly with thumbs). I also don't think there's...Ah, I see. So, my suggestion wasn't intended to be for inline images, just that there were groups that encouraged the posting of OC image links (possibly with thumbs).
Image content should be hosted on image content sites - image boards. And text and links should be on it's own.
I also don't think there's much wrong with this approach.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentWhat if they were limited to specific groups that had specific intent? If there were a subgroup that encouraged them they wouldn't be competing with other content (and I know default...But even there, there's a large danger that posts with images become more popular than others just because of the images.
What if they were limited to specific groups that had specific intent? If there were a subgroup that encouraged them they wouldn't be competing with other content (and I know default subscriptions/opt-in/opt-out stuff is being considered by Deimos). In the case you mentioned, with image links in text posts, can't people already do that anyway?
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentThanks for the response. One of my suggestions to another comment was that image posts could also require a minimum character explanation (which is similar to your intermediate self post...Thanks for the response. One of my suggestions to another comment was that image posts could also require a minimum character explanation (which is similar to your intermediate self post approach). I'm only really going a tiny step further and suggesting that there would be a group saying 'this is the place to do that on Tildes', and the potential of a thumbnail before the link is clicked (not a scrolling feed of full pictures or anything).
I'm also not saying I think you're wrong - you have some experience here. I just feel it is a really nice thing if it can be done right (and not damage the community). If it can't, it can't - but I think Tildes might actually be able to get it right considering the communtiy size, philosophy-first approach and invite-only status.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentThank you for responding - I appreciate your angle. I think there might be some assumptions in terms of what I'm suggesting. Let me quickly point out that I am absolutely not talking about image...Thank you for responding - I appreciate your angle. I think there might be some assumptions in terms of what I'm suggesting.
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Let me quickly point out that I am absolutely not talking about image hosting. It would still be a link to an external place, but possibly a new type of post with a thumbnail. The key is there would be one or more groups for saying 'post your drawing here' etc. It's the encouragement and fostering of that culture that would be a good thing in my opinion - but it would have to be handled with thought and care to get it right.
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Why not have a required explanation character count for each pic in something like ~creative.gallery?
"just built mah first pc 11!!!" with ZERO CONTEXT and nobody talking.
Why aren't people making low-effort text based posts like this now? If we're talking about bad actors and rulebreaking, why is this a post format conversation?
- I'm not talking about allowing image posts everywhere, nor having things turn into a scrollable feed. Just because other sites handle images in a certain way, doesn't mean Tildes would have to follow.
Thanks!
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI think this is an interesting take. This is definitely a key point. "Don't start a forum because people may troll or break the rules - it happens elsewhere." could be another concern that people...I think this is an interesting take.
if the existing Tildes culture is collectively against low-effort posts/jokes/comments, I am not sure that this would be a given, here.
This is definitely a key point. "Don't start a forum because people may troll or break the rules - it happens elsewhere." could be another concern that people might raise about text posts - but it's not about the post format alone.
This is Tildes - I think with its existing philosophy-first, depth-first approach, it is uniquely placed to do attempt this in a way that exactly doesn't devolve into 4chan.
On the partitioning point, I would be interested to see the outcome of Deimos' post about independent communities and default groups. That might already offer a solution when it's all figured out.
On a side point, I also answered elsewhere in this thread that a minimum-character text explanation of your image could also dissuade low-quality posters.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI agree. I think the beauty of this site is it's a clean slate in that regard. It can learn from what other sites did and didn't do, to find a happy medium. I think the point is as things get...I agree. I think the beauty of this site is it's a clean slate in that regard. It can learn from what other sites did and didn't do, to find a happy medium. I think the point is as things get gently busier around here, why not allow different community-minded personality types to feel at home, by giving them a place to share and discuss their creativity.
What this does not mean is that is has to be done indescriminantly or allow low effort meme content - I don't think it has to be either 'no image-based groups' or 'meme wonderland' - I think there are many stops in between. I absolutly get your concerns, though.
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Comment on Considering image posts on Tildes in ~tildes
imnotgoats Link ParentI do see your angle, but I think the key is that it would not be an indescriminate 'post any image wherever you want!', I'm talking about having specific subgroups that are 'post your original...I do see your angle, but I think the key is that it would not be an indescriminate 'post any image wherever you want!', I'm talking about having specific subgroups that are 'post your original artwork here', etc.
There is already moderation for if someone wanted to post something offensive, low quality or nonsensical for the other post types (and this may well expand, based on recent posts) - so, why not for images too? If there were a group for posting your artwork, that also required a text explanation, why couldn't that be moderated like the other areas?
I don't want to 'change Tildes', I mostly want to understand the culture, what people think, and thought it would be reasonable to raise a conversation about something I've been thinking about with the community.
I attempted to start a discussion about it because I came here and really liked what I saw, but realised there wasn't much in the way of creative sharing that was easy to access:
I don't think having a group specifically for people to post their creative work is necessarily a central change to Tildes.
I am on Tildes because I really liked the philosophy behind it so I requested an invite. I found that most people were very nice. I don't know another site that currently ticks the boxes Tildes does for me. I've obviously mistaken the appropriateness of certain types of discussion (but I also assumed that a site based on an open source project designed for community interaction would welcome conversations about functionality and user preference).
I did indeed, because I initially tried to be clear about the spirit of my post, but I felt some people perhaps misread some of it, or certainly took it in a way that it wasn't intended, so I felt it right to clarify.
I feel like this is a little combative and misrepresents my post - I haven't expressed any such expectation, just an exploration of some thoughts and an invitation for opinions.
I'm sorry if you consider this a faux pas and this kind of post is not welcome here. I thought I was pretty clear in my original post that I just wanted to talk with people about some thoughts - I thought that's one of the things this group was for.
What I would say is I expected more conversation about the nature of quality & depth in posts, suggestions for how this might intersect with images and more open discussion of the site philosophy. While some people did respond in those terms, there were also a lot of "images == bad reddit instagram" comments (some of which felt like they had only read the post title).
Either way, I will think twice before posting next time.