13 votes

Sweden has seen a 4% drop in the number of people flying via its airports, as flight-shaming takes off

10 comments

  1. [3]
    cwagner
    Link
    Do people really choose to take a train to far away places? Or did they really take short plane rides before? Both of those seem strange to me (not as in "I can’t believe it", but as in "I’d never...

    Do people really choose to take a train to far away places? Or did they really take short plane rides before? Both of those seem strange to me (not as in "I can’t believe it", but as in "I’d never do either").

    Between the security theater and comparatively infrequent flights, I’d never choose a plane unless I’d arrive several hours early. My shortest flight has been to Warsaw, that was a 2h flight (+1-2h at the airports) vs an 8-9h train ride. A minimum of 4h difference is huge for me and makes flying worth it.

    My normal flights are to South Africa which obviously isn’t reachable by train from Germany, but if I were to go to Munich (2h flight, 6h train) it’s already something were the flexibility, ease and comfort (maybe this would change a little if I were flying 1st? Who knows ;)) of travel of the train ride would outweigh the 4h (travel time, so excluding airport annoyances) difference.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      Spel
      Link Parent
      As it's international flights that's down 4% (domestic are down 9%), it wouldn't generally have been really short flights I think that it's a relatively small number of flights where people...

      Do people really choose to take a train to far away places? Or did they really take short plane rides before?

      As it's international flights that's down 4% (domestic are down 9%), it wouldn't generally have been really short flights I think that it's a relatively small number of flights where people directly replace flights with the train, and more often either entirely skipping travel (in particular for businesses) or choosing a different destination (i.e. not travelling as far, for example for vacations).

      (On a less good note, I would also speculate that some part of the decrease would be flights moving to Copenhagen due to the new aviation tax making it a more attractive option for more people in southern Sweden. I don't have any data to back that up though.)

      5 votes
      1. cwagner
        Link Parent
        Thanks, that line of thought makes a lot more sense than mine.

        Thanks, that line of thought makes a lot more sense than mine.

        1 vote
  2. [7]
    Mandelmannen
    Link
    I don't think the people who feel flight shamed and the people who choose to take the train instead of flying are the same people.

    I don't think the people who feel flight shamed and the people who choose to take the train instead of flying are the same people.

    2 votes
    1. [6]
      archevel
      Link Parent
      Why do you think that? I do feel bad when I have to fly. I also chose to utilise the train system last summer when travelling through Europe. Therefore the two sets of people in your statement has...

      Why do you think that? I do feel bad when I have to fly. I also chose to utilise the train system last summer when travelling through Europe. Therefore the two sets of people in your statement has at least some overlap (me). Are you arguing that most people who feel flight shamed do not choose to use the train and flies regardless or that they cancel their trip plans all together?

      6 votes
      1. [5]
        Mandelmannen
        Link Parent
        Have you been flight shamed?

        Have you been flight shamed?

        1. [4]
          archevel
          Link Parent
          Unless I misinterpret the meaning of those words then yes. Shame is the reason I feel bad when I make a choice to fly somewhere.

          Unless I misinterpret the meaning of those words then yes. Shame is the reason I feel bad when I make a choice to fly somewhere.

          5 votes
          1. [3]
            Mandelmannen
            Link Parent
            I assume flight-shaming is the same as fat-shaming. Like if I eat a doughnut and feel shame because I try to eat healthy that isn't fat-shaming or if a nutritionist goes on television informing...

            I assume flight-shaming is the same as fat-shaming. Like if I eat a doughnut and feel shame because I try to eat healthy that isn't fat-shaming or if a nutritionist goes on television informing people that doughnuts aren't healthy that's also not fat-shaming. In the same way being informed about the consequences on the climate when flying isn't being flight-shamed. I guess if someone like told me something like "Really you are going to fly, with your climate footprint" that would be flight-shaming. I've never seen anyone using flying to belittle someone else IRL or online. So my assumption is that the people who use the term flight-shaming are the people who feel that the climate debate is a personal attack on them and that the people who fly less are the people who are interested in the climate debate. I might be totally wrong or we might have different ideas about what flight-shaming is.

            1. [2]
              Greg
              Link Parent
              I read that as feeling shame over flying, and perhaps more broadly as being shamed by the more responsible actions of others. I think adding -ing to the headline translation probably made for a...

              Flygskam or "flight shame" originated in Sweden in 2017, when Swedish singer Staffan Lingberg pledged to give up flying.

              I read that as feeling shame over flying, and perhaps more broadly as being shamed by the more responsible actions of others. I think adding -ing to the headline translation probably made for a better hook but in the process changed the implication.

              3 votes
              1. Mandelmannen
                Link Parent
                Yeah most likely, I only read the headline at first and now that I've actually read the thing it doesn't mention flight-shaming or flygskamma which I guess would be the Swedish conjugation of...

                Yeah most likely, I only read the headline at first and now that I've actually read the thing it doesn't mention flight-shaming or flygskamma which I guess would be the Swedish conjugation of flight-shame to flight-shaming.
                I made the original comment mostly as a joke or a snide, I would probably have read the article if I thought it would lead to a discussion. It's a reminder to always read the article even when I feel the source probably don't use click bait. A bit off topic but I wonder how much a title should be considered a part of an article. If I make a comment based on BBC stating flight-shaming is a real thing in their title, is my comment still relevant if the article then is about flight-shame? I don't think my comment is relevant to be honest but are titles relevant?

                2 votes