This stuck out as an important thing to recognize: I've already seen several people in other places (like facebook) talking about how things like this mean that anything she says about Weinstein...
This stuck out as an important thing to recognize:
Bennett’s allegations against Argento are especially disturbing since Argento has emerged as one of the most visible representatives of the #MeToo movement. But the actor’s report does not invalidate that movement, or Argento’s own experience. If Argento committed sexual assault, she cannot be an effective advocate for survivors — but that doesn’t mean she is not, herself, a survivor. As the #MeToo movement matures, it is uncovering uncomfortable truths about power and abuse, and among them is the fact that those who have been harmed sometimes go on to inflict that harm on others.
I've already seen several people in other places (like facebook) talking about how things like this mean that anything she says about Weinstein should be thrown out. I just can't even understand that point of view, so I hope that this sentiment gets spread quickly and spread far.
It's tribalism of validating your side and discounting the other side. Just like opponents of the #MeToo movement want sexual assault allegations to be proven guilty in court before anyone passes...
It's tribalism of validating your side and discounting the other side.
Just like opponents of the #MeToo movement want sexual assault allegations to be proven guilty in court before anyone passes judgement are fine with immediately condemning Argento on the basis of an allegation and an out-of-court settlement.
I'm sure that's true for some people, but I've seen others specifically say that her issues no longer matter because of her actions. It's not about credibility; it's specifically about the idea...
I'm sure that's true for some people, but I've seen others specifically say that her issues no longer matter because of her actions. It's not about credibility; it's specifically about the idea that even though what she says is true, it doesn't matter because of her actions.
I feel like this is the fallback thing that I bring up in every conversation, but I think it's because all issues seem like they must be polarized to the point of absurdity. You can't have reasonable middle grounds put forth anymore because you'll get attacked by both sides.
While I do not completely share this sentiment, her story was already weird anyways. What she describes as rape is vaguely so (it is exploitative behaviour as explained in her account, sure, but...
I've already seen several people in other places (like facebook) talking about how things like this mean that anything she says about Weinstein should be thrown out. I just can't even understand that point of view, so I hope that this sentiment gets spread quickly and spread far.
While I do not completely share this sentiment, her story was already weird anyways. What she describes as rape is vaguely so (it is exploitative behaviour as explained in her account, sure, but it is not a forced physical confinement; and a man forcibly applying cunnilingus sounds a bit improbable, given it is supposed to be pleasing to the woman, not to the man giving it), and she was not a "f*cking fool" (edit: weak -> f*cking, add quotes to mark that it's her own words) trying to make a dent in the film industry: she is the daughter of a famous and successful Italian film director, critic and producer, whose father also was a film producer. Furthermore, she maintains close personal ties to Weinstein for many years after the event.
I am not very supportive of the #MeToo because it encourages a culture of public outcry and violations of the human right of the presumption of innocence, but I am supportive of people like Weinstein facing the consequences of their behaviour in courts, and of victims coming out and telling their stories. In Ms. Argento's case though, I was not quite convinced by her story, and am less so now; she's apparently a hypocrite. That though does not harm, in my view, the rest of the victims of Weinstein.
I am trying to balance two things in my mind. One is that I believe the MeToo movement is a net good and is bringing a lot of light to dark places. And the more light we can bring to dark places...
I am trying to balance two things in my mind. One is that I believe the MeToo movement is a net good and is bringing a lot of light to dark places. And the more light we can bring to dark places the better. Be it Hollywood, the Catholic church, Politics. etc.
Just because this person perpetrated this act on this vulnerable young man does not invalidate the MeToo movement, nor does she get a free pass and she should face much of the same criticism that others faced.
With that said, the MeToo movement should never have been about division and exclusion is should have been about shining light into dark places and society being accountable for what the light exposed.
Why would it not matter? If she is guilty, is her sexual assault somehow less bad than other sexual assaults? Also, why is this a distraction from other issues? It should starkly highlight a lot...
Why would it not matter?
If she is guilty, is her sexual assault somehow less bad than other sexual assaults?
Also, why is this a distraction from other issues? It should starkly highlight a lot of problems, if true:
assaults happen, and there's no one "this is what assault looks like" situation
assaults beget assaults
powerful people sometimes make their problems go away with money
Sexual exploitation and gender problems are among the top problems of almost all societies which can afford food. What's more important? Politics, economy, technology? I don't think so.
Sexual exploitation and gender problems are among the top problems of almost all societies which can afford food. What's more important? Politics, economy, technology? I don't think so.
This stuck out as an important thing to recognize:
I've already seen several people in other places (like facebook) talking about how things like this mean that anything she says about Weinstein should be thrown out. I just can't even understand that point of view, so I hope that this sentiment gets spread quickly and spread far.
It's tribalism of validating your side and discounting the other side.
Just like opponents of the #MeToo movement want sexual assault allegations to be proven guilty in court before anyone passes judgement are fine with immediately condemning Argento on the basis of an allegation and an out-of-court settlement.
They are saying it is an issue of credibility. That's how they specifically see it.
I'm sure that's true for some people, but I've seen others specifically say that her issues no longer matter because of her actions. It's not about credibility; it's specifically about the idea that even though what she says is true, it doesn't matter because of her actions.
I feel like this is the fallback thing that I bring up in every conversation, but I think it's because all issues seem like they must be polarized to the point of absurdity. You can't have reasonable middle grounds put forth anymore because you'll get attacked by both sides.
While I do not completely share this sentiment, her story was already weird anyways. What she describes as rape is vaguely so (it is exploitative behaviour as explained in her account, sure, but it is not a forced physical confinement; and a man forcibly applying cunnilingus sounds a bit improbable, given it is supposed to be pleasing to the woman, not to the man giving it), and she was not a "f*cking fool" (edit: weak -> f*cking, add quotes to mark that it's her own words) trying to make a dent in the film industry: she is the daughter of a famous and successful Italian film director, critic and producer, whose father also was a film producer. Furthermore, she maintains close personal ties to Weinstein for many years after the event.
I am not very supportive of the #MeToo because it encourages a culture of public outcry and violations of the human right of the presumption of innocence, but I am supportive of people like Weinstein facing the consequences of their behaviour in courts, and of victims coming out and telling their stories. In Ms. Argento's case though, I was not quite convinced by her story, and am less so now; she's apparently a hypocrite. That though does not harm, in my view, the rest of the victims of Weinstein.
I am trying to balance two things in my mind. One is that I believe the MeToo movement is a net good and is bringing a lot of light to dark places. And the more light we can bring to dark places the better. Be it Hollywood, the Catholic church, Politics. etc.
Just because this person perpetrated this act on this vulnerable young man does not invalidate the MeToo movement, nor does she get a free pass and she should face much of the same criticism that others faced.
With that said, the MeToo movement should never have been about division and exclusion is should have been about shining light into dark places and society being accountable for what the light exposed.
I just can't imagine why this matters. It's literally tabloid nonsense gone mainstream. Distraction from actually important problems.
Why would it not matter?
If she is guilty, is her sexual assault somehow less bad than other sexual assaults?
Also, why is this a distraction from other issues? It should starkly highlight a lot of problems, if true:
There's a lot of things of interest here.
Sexual exploitation and gender problems are among the top problems of almost all societies which can afford food. What's more important? Politics, economy, technology? I don't think so.