Behold, a rant on the state of Warbringer. I saw Warbringer live around the time when they released Severed Reality and it was fucking amazing. Despite the fact that they were supposed to play on...
Behold, a rant on the state of Warbringer.
I saw Warbringer live around the time when they released Severed Reality and it was fucking amazing. Despite the fact that they were supposed to play on the big stage before Sepultura, but they arrived too drunk to play on time, so they were shifted to a tiny stage for the local bands, haha.
I still think that the album where Severed Reality comes from, Waking Into Nightmares, is their best, even though musically A Better World is a pretty good song.
But lyrically... The lyrics to Severed Reality are kind of silly, if you think about them without accepting that these semi-abstract brutal demonic topics are just a part of the genre. Just like warpaint in blackmetal and other weird extreme metal things. But I think it's kind of like having to suspend your disbelief when watching a sci-fi show - if you're able to accept it as it is and ignore the inherent silliness, you're going to enjoy it.
But when you start to get serious and write lyrics about real and current issues, this suspension of disbelief disappears and you better be sure that you're a really good lyricist. To me, the lyrics to A Better World feel juvenile, like something i'd expect at the beginning of their career, not now. The other two singles from the album weren't that much better.
And I'm not saying people can't write about real things. Slayer had songs about Mengele or anti-chistian/anti-authority songs, but they never left the over the top extreme style Slayer is known for. so there was no visible shift towards "now we're getting serious". Or on the other end of the spectrum, Fear of a Blank Planet by Porcupine Tree, which has very similar topics to A Better World and as opposed to Slayer takes itself very seriously, but it still works because Steven Wilson is a brilliant lyricist. But this is in the weird middle area where it feels kind of like an attempt at being serious but one that's not very well done.
Alright, so I'm a Warbringer fanboy. I first encountered them ages ago, when they were on tour with, I think, Nachtmystium, probably around 2007? The only thing they had to out at that time was...
Alright, so I'm a Warbringer fanboy. I first encountered them ages ago, when they were on tour with, I think, Nachtmystium, probably around 2007? The only thing they had to out at that time was the Born of the Ruins EP, bought it, loved it and then War Without End came out and I felt very whelmed with it...Waking Into Nightmares is where they really started to come into their own and I have purchased and loved every single album since and seen them, as time permits, half a dozen times in the intervening 20 years (the most recent being about 2 months ago).
All that said, yeah, this album and this song is pretty weak for a Warbringer song/album. I do like it, I think it's fun, listenable and I generally understand what they're trying to get across, but I 100% agree that it sounds amateur as hell as far as the lyrics go.
However, this isn't Warbringer first foray into more serious lyrics. You can look all the way back to War Without End to find stuff like Combat Shock and Beneath the Waves to find nascent steps into more real topics; but I feel like they really hit their stride with stuff off Empires Collapse with stuff like One Dimension and later with Remain Violent (though, while I love this song, I think the entire "Remain Violent" idea is a little... adolescent? But I get what they're going for.), and then you have so many songs based on history, which offer their own sort of social critique, thinking specifically of something like Glorious End, which as someone also interested in WW1, I found pretty accurate. Not to mention songs like Hunter-Seeker about being trained to kill and coming back from war broken. I feel that they know how to do Thrash and social critique pretty well.
But all that said, I agree with your thesis. I think this album as a whole is a 6/10 for me, where I'd actually call Weapons of Tomorrow a 10/10. None of the songs hit particularly hard and they do often seem pretty... Uninspired? If I'm looking for a word. That said, I'm still listening to it, because I love the band as a whole and still think it's a fun listen, but I've also gone back to my favorite album of last year, which was It Beckons Us All from Darkthrone.
Sidenote: are you by chance European? You mention playing on a big stage, but every time I've seen them, they're still at hella small venues. The last time I saw them here in April, they were at a tiny bar. Which is par for the course, given I've seen huge names like Vader and Destruction in little bars here in the last 15 years.
I have to admit that I am not a Warbringer fanboy - I love Waking Into Nightmares, but then over the years they kind of morphed into various substyles that I don't enjoy as much. Nothing wrong...
I have to admit that I am not a Warbringer fanboy - I love Waking Into Nightmares, but then over the years they kind of morphed into various substyles that I don't enjoy as much. Nothing wrong with them, but I mostly enjoy the fast and brutal side of thrash like Slayer, 80s Sepultura, some thrash-death-grind crossovers etc. So the obvious hole in my thesis is that I don't actually know many songs from a large part of their career.
One Dimension is pretty great! Remain Violent sounds great as well, and the lyrics are not exactly sophisticated, but I feel like they're not trying to either and this kind of punk simplicity I don't mind.
and then you have so many songs based on history, which offer their own sort of social critique, thinking specifically of something like Glorious End, which as someone also interested in WW1, I found pretty accurate.
I hate Sabaton and I find Manowar to be too silly to enjoy, and these two bands kind of ruined historical songs and songs about manly brotherhood for me. :D
But yeah, the songs you mention are pretty good, I'm going to have to go back and listen to some of the stuff I glossed over.
Sidenote: are you by chance European? You mention playing on a big stage, but every time I've seen them, they're still at hella small venues. The last time I saw them here in April, they were at a tiny bar. Which is par for the course, given I've seen huge names like Vader and Destruction in little bars here in the last 15 years.
Haha, yeah. This festival they played was weird overall. A metal festival with a not exactly cool name in a czech town of 15k with not much of a metal scene, it just seemed like a strange decision. But it turned out pretty good, enough people came for it to pay for itself. The big stage was a socialist amphitheatre. The headliners were Sepultura and Cro-Mags, and Warbringer was basically supposed to be the opening act for them. Sepultura just released A-Lex and it was fucking amazing, that night I realized it was a brilliant band even after the departure of both Cavalera brothers.
Oh, you're 100% correct in that opinion. I can listen to maybe one or two Sabaton songs when they're foisted upon me, but that's about it. And Power Metal, while a great intro to extreme metal...
I hate Sabaton and I find Manowar to be too silly to enjoy, and these two bands kind of ruined historical songs and songs about manly brotherhood for me. :D
Oh, you're 100% correct in that opinion. I can listen to maybe one or two Sabaton songs when they're foisted upon me, but that's about it. And Power Metal, while a great intro to extreme metal when I was a fledging, has lost all its flavor for me.
The thing that I like about Warbringer war songs is that they usually have a vein of anti-war or "war is hell" to them, take Crushed Beneath the Tracks and Shellfire as examples or if you're up for a long one Glorious End. I appreciate that they don't do the tacky stuff.
Haha, yeah. This festival they played was weird overall. A metal festival with a not exactly cool name in a czech town of 15k with not much of a metal scene, it just seemed like a strange decision. But it turned out pretty good, enough people came for it to pay for itself. The big stage was a socialist amphitheatre. The headliners were Sepultura and Cro-Mags, and Warbringer was basically supposed to be the opening act for them. Sepultura just released A-Lex and it was fucking amazing, that night I realized it was a brilliant band even after the departure of both Cavalera brothers.
That's definitely the stuff we don't get here in the US! Not that I think I'd be down for a festival in my old age; I was so happy Warbringer wasn't the headliner at the last show I went to and I was able to leave at like 9:30pm!
I've actually not really listened to Sepultura. I recall finally checking them out in their Nu Metal era and ended up just not going back to look into them any further, even though I'm well aware they're a staple.
I think it's worth it to try Chaos A.D. and Arise, those are classics and are different in style from Roots. Chaos A.D. is probably their best album overall, unique in style but still more...
I've actually not really listened to Sepultura. I recall finally checking them out in their Nu Metal era and ended up just not going back to look into them any further, even though I'm well aware they're a staple.
I think it's worth it to try Chaos A.D. and Arise, those are classics and are different in style from Roots. Chaos A.D. is probably their best album overall, unique in style but still more oldschool than Roots which some people dislike. Arise is basically thrash/death, though already leaning into the more groovy Sepultura style, and it's great as well.
Edit: Shellfire especially is great, and the speed reminded me of my favorite war-themed album: Panzer Division Marduk
Compared to a lot of thrash (a metal subgenre with IMO a quite generous share of mediocre or bad bands), Warbringer as they are today are.. fine?. They easily clear a bar that a lot of bands...
Compared to a lot of thrash (a metal subgenre with IMO a quite generous share of mediocre or bad bands), Warbringer as they are today are.. fine?. They easily clear a bar that a lot of bands don't. I don't mind the few tracks I've heard, but it sorta does feel like... eh, kinda like a 5/10 or 6/10 overall, it's kinda fun but I don't know if it's something I'd go back to much, and while I don't really go to live music these days, I could see them being great to listen to as a live band.
Thrash is kinda well-known for not being subtle in its lyrics, and even A Better World I don't find particularly bad for the genre, though I do find it more clunky than something like Severed Reality. But thrash lyrics can be so much worse, that I don't really see Warbringer as sticking out like a sore thumb or anything. Other bands I enjoy, that I feel like write better, like Enforced, often fall into a lot of the same tropes of the "extremely simple A-B rhymes" and so on and really I guess something about the aesthetic or some small choices change my perception between the two
I've recently enjoyed Inhuman Nature as well, and I wouldn't particularly call their lyrics that "poetic" or whatever either. Same with Stress Test, etc. Especially with a lot of these acts being punk/hardcore-adjacent the lack of subtlety sometimes even works in its favor.
Overall I find myself leaning far more death/speed/etc-adjacent thrash these days so my thrash radar is probably not the best
Haven't heard of your mentions there, I'll have to check them out. Thrash is definitely a mainstay for me, but you're absolutely right that it's hard as hell to find something good in the genre. I...
Haven't heard of your mentions there, I'll have to check them out.
Thrash is definitely a mainstay for me, but you're absolutely right that it's hard as hell to find something good in the genre. I generally bounce around with what I listen to and can't say I've landed on anything consistent lately. I used to listen to mostly Black Metal, but in recent months have mostly just been listening to the most recent Darkthrone albums; not sure why, but they're just hitting right these days.
Nice, yeah I listen to a LOT of stuff, all sorts of subgenres of metal, and of course plenty of non-metal too. Finding new stuff pretty much every week (which I take a record of- check the blog...
Nice, yeah I listen to a LOT of stuff, all sorts of subgenres of metal, and of course plenty of non-metal too. Finding new stuff pretty much every week (which I take a record of- check the blog link in bio if interested) so I've gained a lot of favorites along the way. Thrash has been noticeably "thin" on finding good bands in, though, over the years. I don't mind some of the big names, especially their earlier stuff (Metallica, Slayer, Testament). Sodom is a band that still kicks ass decades later, so them too. Early Kreator too. Gale-era Power Trip. And of course, tons of death/thrash
For metal, I can find something to enjoy in almost any subgenre, but some more than others. I tend to lean black / death / speed / death/doom / grind / trad / heavy etc
I pretty much avoid any modern Euro-inspired symphonic stuff (Nightwish and its thousand annoying clones) like the plague (unless it's something like early Dimmu Borgir) and similarly, most mega-cheese bright overdone power metal (especially EUPM with some exceptions- USPM sometimes leans more heavy/speed/trad which I prefer), and most tech death (with a few exceptions) and avoid deathcore too.
Behold, a rant on the state of Warbringer.
I saw Warbringer live around the time when they released Severed Reality and it was fucking amazing. Despite the fact that they were supposed to play on the big stage before Sepultura, but they arrived too drunk to play on time, so they were shifted to a tiny stage for the local bands, haha.
I still think that the album where Severed Reality comes from, Waking Into Nightmares, is their best, even though musically A Better World is a pretty good song.
But lyrically... The lyrics to Severed Reality are kind of silly, if you think about them without accepting that these semi-abstract brutal demonic topics are just a part of the genre. Just like warpaint in blackmetal and other weird extreme metal things. But I think it's kind of like having to suspend your disbelief when watching a sci-fi show - if you're able to accept it as it is and ignore the inherent silliness, you're going to enjoy it.
But when you start to get serious and write lyrics about real and current issues, this suspension of disbelief disappears and you better be sure that you're a really good lyricist. To me, the lyrics to A Better World feel juvenile, like something i'd expect at the beginning of their career, not now. The other two singles from the album weren't that much better.
And I'm not saying people can't write about real things. Slayer had songs about Mengele or anti-chistian/anti-authority songs, but they never left the over the top extreme style Slayer is known for. so there was no visible shift towards "now we're getting serious". Or on the other end of the spectrum, Fear of a Blank Planet by Porcupine Tree, which has very similar topics to A Better World and as opposed to Slayer takes itself very seriously, but it still works because Steven Wilson is a brilliant lyricist. But this is in the weird middle area where it feels kind of like an attempt at being serious but one that's not very well done.
Still, I could listen to this.
Alright, so I'm a Warbringer fanboy. I first encountered them ages ago, when they were on tour with, I think, Nachtmystium, probably around 2007? The only thing they had to out at that time was the Born of the Ruins EP, bought it, loved it and then War Without End came out and I felt very whelmed with it...Waking Into Nightmares is where they really started to come into their own and I have purchased and loved every single album since and seen them, as time permits, half a dozen times in the intervening 20 years (the most recent being about 2 months ago).
All that said, yeah, this album and this song is pretty weak for a Warbringer song/album. I do like it, I think it's fun, listenable and I generally understand what they're trying to get across, but I 100% agree that it sounds amateur as hell as far as the lyrics go.
However, this isn't Warbringer first foray into more serious lyrics. You can look all the way back to War Without End to find stuff like Combat Shock and Beneath the Waves to find nascent steps into more real topics; but I feel like they really hit their stride with stuff off Empires Collapse with stuff like One Dimension and later with Remain Violent (though, while I love this song, I think the entire "Remain Violent" idea is a little... adolescent? But I get what they're going for.), and then you have so many songs based on history, which offer their own sort of social critique, thinking specifically of something like Glorious End, which as someone also interested in WW1, I found pretty accurate. Not to mention songs like Hunter-Seeker about being trained to kill and coming back from war broken. I feel that they know how to do Thrash and social critique pretty well.
But all that said, I agree with your thesis. I think this album as a whole is a 6/10 for me, where I'd actually call Weapons of Tomorrow a 10/10. None of the songs hit particularly hard and they do often seem pretty... Uninspired? If I'm looking for a word. That said, I'm still listening to it, because I love the band as a whole and still think it's a fun listen, but I've also gone back to my favorite album of last year, which was It Beckons Us All from Darkthrone.
Sidenote: are you by chance European? You mention playing on a big stage, but every time I've seen them, they're still at hella small venues. The last time I saw them here in April, they were at a tiny bar. Which is par for the course, given I've seen huge names like Vader and Destruction in little bars here in the last 15 years.
I have to admit that I am not a Warbringer fanboy - I love Waking Into Nightmares, but then over the years they kind of morphed into various substyles that I don't enjoy as much. Nothing wrong with them, but I mostly enjoy the fast and brutal side of thrash like Slayer, 80s Sepultura, some thrash-death-grind crossovers etc. So the obvious hole in my thesis is that I don't actually know many songs from a large part of their career.
One Dimension is pretty great! Remain Violent sounds great as well, and the lyrics are not exactly sophisticated, but I feel like they're not trying to either and this kind of punk simplicity I don't mind.
I hate Sabaton and I find Manowar to be too silly to enjoy, and these two bands kind of ruined historical songs and songs about manly brotherhood for me. :D
But yeah, the songs you mention are pretty good, I'm going to have to go back and listen to some of the stuff I glossed over.
Haha, yeah. This festival they played was weird overall. A metal festival with a not exactly cool name in a czech town of 15k with not much of a metal scene, it just seemed like a strange decision. But it turned out pretty good, enough people came for it to pay for itself. The big stage was a socialist amphitheatre. The headliners were Sepultura and Cro-Mags, and Warbringer was basically supposed to be the opening act for them. Sepultura just released A-Lex and it was fucking amazing, that night I realized it was a brilliant band even after the departure of both Cavalera brothers.
Oh, you're 100% correct in that opinion. I can listen to maybe one or two Sabaton songs when they're foisted upon me, but that's about it. And Power Metal, while a great intro to extreme metal when I was a fledging, has lost all its flavor for me.
The thing that I like about Warbringer war songs is that they usually have a vein of anti-war or "war is hell" to them, take Crushed Beneath the Tracks and Shellfire as examples or if you're up for a long one Glorious End. I appreciate that they don't do the tacky stuff.
That's definitely the stuff we don't get here in the US! Not that I think I'd be down for a festival in my old age; I was so happy Warbringer wasn't the headliner at the last show I went to and I was able to leave at like 9:30pm!
I've actually not really listened to Sepultura. I recall finally checking them out in their Nu Metal era and ended up just not going back to look into them any further, even though I'm well aware they're a staple.
I think it's worth it to try Chaos A.D. and Arise, those are classics and are different in style from Roots. Chaos A.D. is probably their best album overall, unique in style but still more oldschool than Roots which some people dislike. Arise is basically thrash/death, though already leaning into the more groovy Sepultura style, and it's great as well.
Edit: Shellfire especially is great, and the speed reminded me of my favorite war-themed album: Panzer Division Marduk
I similarly just absolutely cannot do Sabaton and Manowar
Compared to a lot of thrash (a metal subgenre with IMO a quite generous share of mediocre or bad bands), Warbringer as they are today are.. fine?. They easily clear a bar that a lot of bands don't. I don't mind the few tracks I've heard, but it sorta does feel like... eh, kinda like a 5/10 or 6/10 overall, it's kinda fun but I don't know if it's something I'd go back to much, and while I don't really go to live music these days, I could see them being great to listen to as a live band.
Thrash is kinda well-known for not being subtle in its lyrics, and even A Better World I don't find particularly bad for the genre, though I do find it more clunky than something like Severed Reality. But thrash lyrics can be so much worse, that I don't really see Warbringer as sticking out like a sore thumb or anything. Other bands I enjoy, that I feel like write better, like Enforced, often fall into a lot of the same tropes of the "extremely simple A-B rhymes" and so on and really I guess something about the aesthetic or some small choices change my perception between the two
I've recently enjoyed Inhuman Nature as well, and I wouldn't particularly call their lyrics that "poetic" or whatever either. Same with Stress Test, etc. Especially with a lot of these acts being punk/hardcore-adjacent the lack of subtlety sometimes even works in its favor.
Overall I find myself leaning far more death/speed/etc-adjacent thrash these days so my thrash radar is probably not the best
Haven't heard of your mentions there, I'll have to check them out.
Thrash is definitely a mainstay for me, but you're absolutely right that it's hard as hell to find something good in the genre. I generally bounce around with what I listen to and can't say I've landed on anything consistent lately. I used to listen to mostly Black Metal, but in recent months have mostly just been listening to the most recent Darkthrone albums; not sure why, but they're just hitting right these days.
Nice, yeah I listen to a LOT of stuff, all sorts of subgenres of metal, and of course plenty of non-metal too. Finding new stuff pretty much every week (which I take a record of- check the blog link in bio if interested) so I've gained a lot of favorites along the way. Thrash has been noticeably "thin" on finding good bands in, though, over the years. I don't mind some of the big names, especially their earlier stuff (Metallica, Slayer, Testament). Sodom is a band that still kicks ass decades later, so them too. Early Kreator too. Gale-era Power Trip. And of course, tons of death/thrash
For metal, I can find something to enjoy in almost any subgenre, but some more than others. I tend to lean black / death / speed / death/doom / grind / trad / heavy etc
I pretty much avoid any modern Euro-inspired symphonic stuff (Nightwish and its thousand annoying clones) like the plague (unless it's something like early Dimmu Borgir) and similarly, most mega-cheese bright overdone power metal (especially EUPM with some exceptions- USPM sometimes leans more heavy/speed/trad which I prefer), and most tech death (with a few exceptions) and avoid deathcore too.