I was looking for NASA's annual budget. I was going to create a topic asking about it, but then I found this news that makes for a better post. In any case, $24.8 billion is not a lot, right?...
I was looking for NASA's annual budget. I was going to create a topic asking about it, but then I found this news that makes for a better post.
In any case, $24.8 billion is not a lot, right? Feels tremendously insufficient for space exploration. In my very rough calculation, that is less than what the US military spends every 10 days.
It is, very roughly, what NASA has been receiving consistently, ever since They shut down the Apollo program. So IDK if it's too much or too little or what, but it's the amount the US govt has...
It is, very roughly, what NASA has been receiving consistently, ever since They shut down the Apollo program. So IDK if it's too much or too little or what, but it's the amount the US govt has been willing to invest in space exploration, basically, forever. Until Trump just now decided it's too much.
There's some guy out there with some physics chops, who made a website advocating for building an actual, full-sized, fully-functional, actually-fly-it-around-the-solar-system, current-technology-only, Star Trek USS Enterprise ... using the NASA budget ... and then building a new-and-improved one every 33 years.
I wouldn't want to throw every penny NASA gets at such a project, but I think it did illustrate just how much they can do with a paltry $25B/year.
( sigh ) ... Aaaand I just discovered that that website no longer exists. Presumably/Hopefully, you can still find snapshots of it in the InternetArchive ... you know ... until they tear that site down.
Edit: Found this reddit thread talking about the original site that no longer exists.
I'm glad that Congress is at least in this small way asserting it's status as a co-equal branch of government, but this is disappointing: I have not seen any sort of justification for the SLS and...
I'm glad that Congress is at least in this small way asserting it's status as a co-equal branch of government, but this is disappointing:
Congress also rejects the White House's desire to restructure the Artemis Moon program, getting rid of the Lunar Gateway and ending the space agency's use of the costly Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft after two more flights.
I have not seen any sort of justification for the SLS and Lunar Gateway except as pork. They just don't make sense.
Respectfully, if you claim you have not seen any justification for SLS and Lunar Gateway, then you either haven't been looking very hard, or are instead conflating "rejecting arguments" with "no...
Exemplary
Respectfully, if you claim you have not seen any justification for SLS and Lunar Gateway, then you either haven't been looking very hard, or are instead conflating "rejecting arguments" with "no justification".
While neither the SLS or Lunar Gateway are the most efficient path to achieving a permanent Lunar Presence on the Moon, they certainly both fulfill a number of objectives:
First, SLS. Yes, it's not efficient, yes it's billions over budget, but there are a number of reasons it's absolutely imperative it remains funded until at least Artemis 4:
Crucially, SLS is the fastest way to get crews to the Moon. Starship is exploding more than ever and we have no idea when it will actually be ready. SpaceX has missed all it's projected timelines already. New Glenn has launched once and then delayed massively test launch 2. SLS has continued to have problems but they appear to be solved (for now), and so there's nothing even close to SLS for getting us to the Moon.
Running a staged approach where we utilize the technology and budget we have now to start doing Lunar work and therefore have more accurate data to inform future technology (like starship) is a much more reliable path towards consistent Lunar access than cutting every arguably inefficient program and hoping one of our hail-mary technologies pays off. Especially when there are serious geopolitical concerns that China will be able to get to the Moon first, dominate the location, and set all the geopolitical rules there.
For Gateway:
We have the ISS, but we have not deployed a space station anywhere else - especially not somewhere outside of Earth orbit. This will be a massive science and logistics learning opportunity to get it running.
Likewise, learning about human habitation in deep space (depending on your definition of Deep Space - we'll be much further outside of the Earth's magnetosphere and thus exposed to much more radiation) will be a massive science and technology boon from Gateway.
Although its orbit doesn't result in consistent access to the South Pole, it still will be a reliable back-up station for managing the unavoidable problems that will arise on the Lunar surface. Having multiple failure points in your chain back to Earth can only help.
For both:
Even if you discount all of the above, developing both programs as "pork" are massive training and technology opportunities for a global group of friendly space agencies and companies. We are having to train a new generation of scientists and engineers to re-learn how to do what the Apollo generation did. This is no small feat as that entire generation has either passed or retired. The institutional knowledge is gone. Moreover, many of these technologies can be re-applied on Earth. For instance, the NASA Technology Transfer Program explicitly licenses NASA patents for commercial use on Earth.
Globally, these cancellations represent yet another Trump Admin self-inflicted wound to the standing of USA. The Artemis missions involve billions invested from allied nations - ESA has already built the damn Orion capsule to sit on top of SLS, Canada has spent billions on Canadarm-3 + other support systems for Gateway. Cancelling these programs outright is going to piss off these partners and make them much much more unlikely to commit to supporting the Artemis programs.
I could go on, but I think I've more than made my point for a Tildes comment. In my view as someone who works on Lunar stuff, maintaining this funding is an unequivocal win for the Lunar community. We are well past the time when cancelling either program would be helpful.
They just better stay away from Dragonfly; that's all I've got to say. Okay, I've got more. I think you're best argument is just the "it's ready to go now, probably" one. For a minute there, it...
They just better stay away from Dragonfly; that's all I've got to say.
Okay, I've got more. I think you're best argument is just the "it's ready to go now, probably" one. For a minute there, it looked like the Starship program was gonna fly right past the SLS schedule, but that hope died this past year.
The "it'll piss off our partners" is just Part 2 of "it's ready now".
The "train the future with pork" argument applies to whatever pork-laden program they settle on, and might even work better if they developed something more modern than a recycled Shuttle engine program.
And we really don't need that lunar space station. Nice to have? Sure. But it's just added complexity to an already complicated agenda.
Just my dos centavos. Ultimately, it's all academic, cuz Trump is gonna destroy NASA same as every other govt agency that doesn't help with exiling people he doesn't like.
Maybe if NASA developed a suborbital transport to Sudan program...
It blows my mind that Republican Congress has been happy to abdicate all authority for everything to Trump ... except NASA is where they suddenly get a spine (?!!?). Also, Hell has frozen over as...
It blows my mind that Republican Congress has been happy to abdicate all authority for everything to Trump ... except NASA is where they suddenly get a spine (?!!?).
Also, Hell has frozen over as I find myself cheering for Ted Cruz.
I was looking for NASA's annual budget. I was going to create a topic asking about it, but then I found this news that makes for a better post.
In any case, $24.8 billion is not a lot, right? Feels tremendously insufficient for space exploration. In my very rough calculation, that is less than what the US military spends every 10 days.
It is, very roughly, what NASA has been receiving consistently, ever since They shut down the Apollo program. So IDK if it's too much or too little or what, but it's the amount the US govt has been willing to invest in space exploration, basically, forever. Until Trump just now decided it's too much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA#/media/File:NASA-Budget-Federal.svg
There's some guy out there with some physics chops, who made a website advocating for building an actual, full-sized, fully-functional, actually-fly-it-around-the-solar-system, current-technology-only, Star Trek USS Enterprise ... using the NASA budget ... and then building a new-and-improved one every 33 years.
I wouldn't want to throw every penny NASA gets at such a project, but I think it did illustrate just how much they can do with a paltry $25B/year.
( sigh ) ... Aaaand I just discovered that that website no longer exists. Presumably/Hopefully, you can still find snapshots of it in the InternetArchive ... you know ... until they tear that site down.
Edit: Found this reddit thread talking about the original site that no longer exists.
Here: https://web.archive.org/web/20201129174658/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_the_Enterprise
https://web.archive.org/web/20221225052441/https://www.buildtheenterprise.org/
I'm glad that Congress is at least in this small way asserting it's status as a co-equal branch of government, but this is disappointing:
I have not seen any sort of justification for the SLS and Lunar Gateway except as pork. They just don't make sense.
Respectfully, if you claim you have not seen any justification for SLS and Lunar Gateway, then you either haven't been looking very hard, or are instead conflating "rejecting arguments" with "no justification".
While neither the SLS or Lunar Gateway are the most efficient path to achieving a permanent Lunar Presence on the Moon, they certainly both fulfill a number of objectives:
First, SLS. Yes, it's not efficient, yes it's billions over budget, but there are a number of reasons it's absolutely imperative it remains funded until at least Artemis 4:
For Gateway:
For both:
I could go on, but I think I've more than made my point for a Tildes comment. In my view as someone who works on Lunar stuff, maintaining this funding is an unequivocal win for the Lunar community. We are well past the time when cancelling either program would be helpful.
They just better stay away from Dragonfly; that's all I've got to say.
Okay, I've got more. I think you're best argument is just the "it's ready to go now, probably" one. For a minute there, it looked like the Starship program was gonna fly right past the SLS schedule, but that hope died this past year.
The "it'll piss off our partners" is just Part 2 of "it's ready now".
The "train the future with pork" argument applies to whatever pork-laden program they settle on, and might even work better if they developed something more modern than a recycled Shuttle engine program.
And we really don't need that lunar space station. Nice to have? Sure. But it's just added complexity to an already complicated agenda.
Just my dos centavos. Ultimately, it's all academic, cuz Trump is gonna destroy NASA same as every other govt agency that doesn't help with exiling people he doesn't like.
Maybe if NASA developed a suborbital transport to Sudan program...
It blows my mind that Republican Congress has been happy to abdicate all authority for everything to Trump ... except NASA is where they suddenly get a spine (?!!?).
Also, Hell has frozen over as I find myself cheering for Ted Cruz.