Firefly: Cultural representation or appropriation
If you haven't watched Firefly, this should still be safe to read. No spoilers.
Let me start by saying I'm a huge fan of Firefly. If someone could somehow combined the core cast, the favour of the universe, the ship, the adventures and everything into one awesome person, that person would be my BFF. However, as an Asian, I probably would not be theirs.
Background
The series is a space cowboy western drama. It takes place in the year 2517 in assumed to be distant solar system from our Earth (Earth-that-was). From the comics, there's a brief comment that mentions Earth-that-was sent generation ships to colonize this new solar system. The ships were sent by the two main superpowers at the time - USA and China. This explains the general western feel mixed with, I'm going to call it - generic Asia.
Core characters
- Malcolm "Mal" Reynolds
- Zoe Alleyne Washburne
- Hoban "Wash" Washburne
- Inara Serra
- Jayne Cobb
- Kaywinnet Lee "Kaylee" Frye
- Dr. Simon Tam
- River Tam
- Derrial Book
- (The ship, Serenity)
And yes, though Kaylee, and the Tam's stand out as Asian-ish names, they are not Asian. In fact no one in the core cast is. There was mention that Kaylee was suppose to be, but they just fell in love with Jewel Staite. I honestly can't imagine another Kaylee, but still can't help but wonder. And to be honest, I'm not sure how I feel with the idea of the only Asian walking around as the only person wearing Chinese clothes.
Non-core characters
Too many to list, but feel free to scroll down the list on IMDb.
You'll find "Jim Lau" - Narrator. I also believe I saw an Asian woman in "Heart of Gold" but can't find her name, so I'm guessing it's an uncredited part.
That's right, in a universe settled by the Americans and Chinese, you'll see maybe one unnamed Asian.
Asia without Asians
But not seeing Asian people doesn't mean there's no Asian influence.
- Kaylee wears "Chinese" clothes a fair bit and even has a paper umbrella. Of course, if any of you have recently visited pretty much anywhere in China, you'll notice no Chinese people wear clothing like that walking their dog.
- Chinese food, like "bao" is also mentioned.
- Quirky Chinese things like "washing feet" and "hundreds of fat children" are woven in.
- The Chinese language in both written and spoken form are littered through-out. The ship, Serenity is named in Chinese (painted on her), but no one actually refers to her by it. Bits of Chinese are tossed around everywhere and obviously every person in this universe is expected to be fluent. There was Asian consultation on this part, so a lot of the language is "correct". They went out of their way to string together crazy sentences, so it's not anything most people would say, but honestly adds to the show. And for their part, you can tell the actors do put an effort in speaking it right, with varying levels of success.
Final thoughts
I still love the show, but do feel disappointed that someone can obviously love my culture so much to see its influence everywhere in this series, but not enough to actually include us.
Edit: formatting
When I think of appropriation, I think: people have been marginalized and criticized/ridiculed for a certain part of their culture (geisha, dreadlocks, cornrows, afros, dark skin, "slanted" eyes). "Light-skinned people are better." "Cut your hair; it's 'unprofessional.'" "You know how all Japanese women wear white makeup and are prostitutes?" Then when the people doing the marginalization, the criticizing, the ridiculing decide to take parts of that culture to make fun of it, make light of it, decorate their homes, incorporate it in their fashion?? Yeah. I'd be pissed off too!
I try to think about it from an early Native American's point of view. These white people came in, murdered, raped, pillaged, and burned our villages, and now they're bastardizing our sacred dances, wearing our sacred garments. It could be crushingly insulting and even devastating.
As far as I understand it: "Cross Cultural Engagement" is learning about a culture, respecting it, and taking parts of it into your culture. It may become muddled over the years. "Cultural Appropriation" is taking something from someone else's culture, especially a marginalized one, without regard for its meaning or significance. Or really learning about it at all.
So I think I get OP's point. OP has identified themselves as "Asian." They've gone on to point out that the "Generic Asian" stuff sprinkled throughout the show is supposedly Chinese, but it isn't at all representative of what actual Chinese people do, wear, decorate with. So I assume a bunch of western (probably white) set designers/directors/whatever thought "hmm....what is China like? Probably this. And if it's not, who cares, it looks like China to me!" And that could probably feel shitty to a Chinese person.
I strongly disagree that cultural appropriation is "one of the dumbest accusation" ever assigned to anything. But I do believe that it is often misattributed to events which could have been more correctly defined as something else.
Thanks for comments. You've helped me better put my thoughts into words. I think the keywords are respect and marginalized. I do identify as Chinese, and there's literally a billion of us, so there's a certain fear of loss that I don't experience. I can be marginalized here, but I am otherwise well represented, which I believe does add to why I might eye-roll at "zen" shampoo, but am otherwise not offended. However, I do believe there's a certain level of respect that should be granted when one uses something that is identifiable as someone else's. And that "use", maybe it's influence, and maybe it's appropriation.
I was watching some old horror movie were a Satanist lair had three giant Buddha statues in it. Granted the movie was ancient, but I had very much a, "Oh, so that's how they saw it," feeling about it.
Fair enough, you make some very valid points about it potentially being seen as ridiculing and a bastardization by adopting the cultural affectations without an attempt at also understanding their meaning, which as you rightly pointed out is distinct from cross cultural engagement. And I was probably far more invective than I should have been calling it "one of the dumbest accusations" but in a great many cases where I have seen the accusation levied against someone, it is (not that this is one such).
To be honest, I chose the word because of the current social context it has. Generally speaking, I agree with you. I have yet to see one example of it in the media where I agreed with it. I'm of the opinion, you can't own clothes, foods, architecture, and really anything as a "culture". Though some influences are more obviously than others. You want to wear a cheongsam to prom, you look fierce, don't apologize.
Perhaps, fetishization is a better word?
Personally I would appreciate an apology from society as a whole for all the racist shit I caught doing Chinese things while Chinese when I was a kid. I guess that's my gripe in general. It's now hip and cool and open minded to absorb other cultures, and that's great and all. I just hope that openness extends to the people who carried that culture close enough to be absorbed.
Edit: I guess my hurt stems from seeing aspects of my culture being embraced while I also remember a time when that openness was not extended to my friends, family, and me.
The Edit is the sum up that I can understand... in a smaller fashion. Growing up liking geeky things like comics and superheros and fantasy and scifi and computers and being ridiculed for these things that I saw as part of my identity and then having the types of people that used to torment me about it now claim to love it... it's difficult.
BUT ... these aren't the same people who actually tormented me - these are new kids and I'm glad the geeks and nerds don't have to be shoved into lockers in the hallway anymore just because they have a batman tshirt on... Kids (and adults) can still be little shits, but in general, it's much less common to be picked on just for being different and that's a good thing.
AND... not nearly as much suffering as others being judged because their skin was different...
Lol. As also a nerd, yeah, it’s kinda like that.
I think this is a cop out. For any piece of fiction, your world has to make sense for the universe you defined. Whedon said it was settled by USA and China specifically. If he had left that out, we can assume that cultures blended organically on Earth, though like you mentioned, still wouldn't excuse the whitewashing though.
Is it really though? IMO the show's fetishization, caricaturization and shallow depiction of "American" (particularly with regards to the old West) culture is just as bad as that of its depiction of Chinese culture and yet we're giving it a pass there because it's science fiction. Why is the same leeway afforded to one but not the other?
That's a good point.
I'm not sure, and it might be because minorities can be poorly represented in other places, but that's of course not to say they are in Firefly (which is the scope of this topic).
If I had to defined my point, which is not to say I feel strongly about this, it would be that the Western theme is fairly well established, so seeing it in Firefly, though an caricature of The West, doesn't feel out of place. The Chinese themes however, feel like they're from Home Sense.
That makes sense, and I can definitely see the power dynamic aspect of the argument for one being rightly criticized for being an inaccurate depiction of a minority (at least to Western audiences) culture, whereas the other is ignored since it's an already established (albeit inaccurate) depiction of the much more prevalent/dominant culture. In a way it's almost like the comedy rule of "punching up" being acceptable and "punching down" being abhorrent.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. It's all about power and, quite honestly, privilege. White people, being the historical oppressors (in the "western world") have been able to live without their customs being used against them or taken from them. So we, I think, tend to often feel less offended when someone makes fun of our culture, or tries to take it from us. If we had been pressured to assimilate to a different culture (explicitly or implicitly) over generations, perhaps we would be the ones feeling hurt or at least eye-rolling at others' attempts to copy us. I feel that is one of my privileges. I have the privilege to not be offended (to whatever degree) when someone makes fun of my heritage.
I read an article once that talked about a white chef who said "Pho is the new ramen... and if you're not doing pho this way, you're doing it wrong." But that chef didn't take into account that since pho is largely Vietnamese and ramen is largely japanese, he was (slightly) contributing to the "Generic Asian-- all asian cultures are the same" misconception. And by saying his (iirc, quite different) preparation of pho was "the only right way to do it," I can understand why a person of Vietnamese origin might feel annoyed or even upset. Like... "this thing is ours, feel free to experiment, but don't try to take it over." Other people could express this much better than me, but it's almost like "it feels bad when a white person gets fame and glory for doing something that a person of my race/culture could never achieve. Even if the way I do it is the same or better." This is my conjecture as a white person. Take it with a thousand grains of salt. I definitely give more weight to the opinions of people of color than I do to my own.
Just gonna lay my two cents beside yours.
As a Chinese person, what has sensitized me to this is the entirety of my youth having been spent trying to fit into my American world. I can think of dozens of little ways that I felt ostracized for doing things that would have been perfectly normal had my parents never immigrated. I know the little behaviors that I consciously abandoned to more easily be accepted in my largely white school, my largely white friends, and their largely white families. When I visit family abroad, I see all the little quirks I no longer do because I wanted to fit in better with my white peers. I had to rub away at those edges of my identity so I wouldn't get teased or bullied about it. I've talked to friends who are Viet and Korean and Indian growing up in America, and we've all had experiences growing up of eschewing parts of our heritage to fit in better.
So when I read about that chef talking about "the only right way" to make Pho, my knee jerk reaction is. 'How dare you.' The world I grew up in made me (and the people who shared some analog of my experience) give this up so I could be accepted -- and then here comes this guy claiming to be the absolute authority on something an army of Viet chefs could have told you.
Or when that girl in Utah wore a Chinese dress to prom, my knee jerk reaction was the same kind of, 'What the heck?' (I won't touch the weird prom photo of the folded hands curtsy with their dates throwing hand signs because I don't even know where to start.)
And when people try to shield themselves by asking women in China if it's cool that she wears the dress; or women in India; or ask chefs in Vietnam if it's cool and they almost universally get the okay -- I hear that and personally don't care what they think about it. They didn't have to consciously surrender that part of themselves just to watch the people who pressured them into giving that up then pick it up for themselves.
I dunno. I'm rambling now. It's all so complicated. I'm glad that chef likes making Pho. I'm glad that girl liked a Chinese dress. I'm glad people are sharing each other's cultures even if it's just in this cosmetic way. I hope it lays the groundwork for a stronger appreciation of multiculturalism in future generations that weren't enjoyed by mine -- but I can't help but feel all this prodding at old scars.
Though I personally didn't mind the girl wearing a Chinese dress to prom, I do get what you're saying.
And though I've never thought of it as rubbing away my (ethnic) edges to fit in, I know I did. I use to have clothes that I knew were a little too "Asian" to wear to school. If I choose to wear something more Asian (and I'm not speaking of just traditional clothes), it was as a statement. In high school, I went out of my way to not wear anything too "fob". It's only relatively recently that I started wearing a cheongsam to weddings and Christmas parties.
I try to imagine a decade from now in a world where someone in Anytown, USA decided to wear a hijab to prom just because they thought it was beautiful.
A part of me would be happy that we’d gotten to a point that that aspect of another culture was being embraced in this country, but another part would remember the time when wearing that in public put all kinds of targets on your back, and I would hurt for the people who would have wanted to embody that part of their heritage but decided that they could not.
Edit: I hope this hasn’t come off as me trying to police how anyone feels about this. I’m still trying to understand how and why I feel the things I do on the odd day a story or topic like this comes up.
That was honestly beautiful (in a very tragic way). I feel so sad that you have had to do these things. I'm grateful that you chose to share your experience even though you didn't have to.
Thank you for saying what I never could have. I feel like it broadened my horizons, even though I know it wasn't for me.
Thanks for letting me know my words reached you. I always wonder if sharing things like this ever reaches anyone, especially if it’s an experience that may be totally aliens to the listener.
I’m glad I could share that with you :)
Just seconding thanks for your post. :)
Honestly, I’m really touched that internet strangers are connecting with my experience.
Maybe it’s toxic masculinity and/or too much time on 4chan or reddit, but I think I’ve really let it get to my head, the idea that nobody cares how anyone else feels.
Sorry though for derailing from the topic of Firefly so much 😅
Not at all. I really appreciate your perspective.
And I think I'm definitely guilty of derailing the convos too lol
The "Asian influence in the future" is actually a pretty common scifi trope and I think Firefly handled it pretty well - particularly for it's time 16 years ago.
As you said, Earth-that-was became hemispheres of influence between China and USA but the generation ships were usually one or the other so... USA ships had USA population and China had China population and thus "old west" as we follow the exploits of these descendants of USA generation ships for an "in show" explanation and with a US market target audience as the production explanation. If the same show was made in China, I would certainly expect an "old east" theme with a smattering of iconic USA culture for the Chinese based audience.
So... to me, it was less about representing China's present day culture on the show but more about China's influence on USA's culture as the opposing superpower in the story and that would be more about iconic imagery and language and less about the fact that people in China today don't wear traditional clothes in regular day to day. We don't wear cowboy hats and dusters on our way into work in the USA either ... but those are iconic to that period being represented. In that "Old East" version of Firefly there might be a bunch of english smattered about with things like football helmets or eating hot dogs or US bomber style ship name decoration and saying things like "darn it" or "bloody hell" (assuming generic "Caucasian" representation).
Based on the behind the scenes stuff they had a lot of advisors for the Chinese culture and language aspects to make sure things were handled well and that the language use was accurate (even going to far as enjoying slipping in some nasty street slang swears).
I think it's less about appropriation and more about cultural influence and in your question you've mixed "in story" representation of cultural influence with production considerations and whitewashing concerns together while forgetting how iconic imagery is what influences and is recognizable as that culture and made this a bit messy of a case to discuss clearly.
I can buy that there might be some Chinatowns in another half of the system, and maybe with a couple more seasons that would come up. I can also see an "Old East" alongside and "Old West". Though, I'm not sure how much really is supported in the show itself.
Did they though? I've only ever heard of the one Chinese translator. I know she talked about calling her friends in China, but I'm not sure if there really were an actually team.
Cultural influence when not done respectfully is when we start slipping into appropriation/fetishization. I think the whitewashing is not independent of this issue, but contributes to it.
This, I would say, is the part I'm drawing direct issue with in Firefly. These generic Asian bits are not iconic, but stereotypes at best.
I haven't looked too deep into the expanded universe stuff, the graphic novels, or DVD commentary, but it does appear that was the case.
From wikipedia:
"Throughout the series, the Alliance is shown to govern the star system through an organization of "core" planets, following its success in forcibly unifying all the colonies under a single government. DVD commentary suggests that the Alliance is composed of two primary "core" systems, one predominantly Western in culture, the other pan-Asian, justifying the mixed linguistic and visual themes of the series."
I think the "Old West" setting has more to do with the fact Firefly's plot is specifically about US history. It's about the US Civil War, and what would happen if the north lost the Battle of Gettysburg. Union soldeirs would have been forced to flee the cities (core planets) and move to remote locations outside Confederate control (the wild west).
As far as I can gather, the Chinese colonists stayed mostly in the inner core planets, and made up a big part of the government as well as industry (Blue Sun corp). The inner core planets are a lot more high-tech, with more resources, not the wild west, so they probably wouldn't have gotten an "Old East" treatment.
I really wish we got more than one season of it. There's so much room for storytelling in the universe they set up. Perhaps then we would have gotten a better picture of the Chinese influence in the 'verse.
Thanks for pointing me to wiki. I honestly don't remember where this might have been mentioned, but I do have the DVD set and the comics - time for a binge!
I'm thinking, in regards to the mix of USA and China settlements, that they were entire galaxies apart... like USA went NORTH and China went SOUTH and never the twain shall meet unless another generation ship comes through. Not setup in such a way as having current trade or interaction. That was my impression anyways from the limited background provided by alternative media outside of the show.
If we stick strictly with the information available in the show then maybe there are more China centric settlements and maybe if we actually got more show we might have seen more of that ... I would say, because Joss tends to flesh things out later, it's possible some of the cultural aspects of the show could have been provided additional context.
As far as the team vs translator - it's been awhile - but I think the translator was talking about calling friends to get interesting street slang not that she needed help with knowing what was or wasn't culturally respectful - there were others in the documentaries, but again, it's been awhile since I've seen them. The fact that they even hired one person to keep an eye on it though instead of just making up their own stuff says this show did better than many others about considering the culture - particularly for the time period.
I think whitewashing and cultural appropriation could be linked but are not the same things and in this case I think that's why this is a bit muddled. The show had a pretty good mix of ethnic representation, particularly for it's time. If you think it was wrong for there not to be more Chinese actors in a TV show that had Chinese iconography ... I can agree that it would have been better but I don't know that I'd call Firefly a show that was "whitewashed".
As far as iconic imagery and stereo types ... that's kinda the same thing in a way but different on implementation. Would you say a guy in a suit on his way to work is more to be attributed to a Chinese man going to work or an American man going to work? Neither... about the same right? If I say "guy is carrying a sword down an old dirt path" do you think East or West? If I say "guy is carrying a revolver down an old dirt path" do you think East or West? If I mention Hockey, do you think of England or Canada? Are you stereotyping because you recognize these visual representations of culture and history or are you just acknowledging they are often associated with a particular culture?
Most of Firefly used clothing, art and language to represent Chinese cultural influences - these are three extremely influential aspects of a culture and really hard to call "stereotypical" by simply being used in a way that is identifiable. You are taking issue with Firefly using generic Asian bits as stereotypes - a thing that indicates a mocking or denigrating use of cultural icons... but I don't see it. I'm gonna need more than you've presented to see it that way. Maybe if you can provide specific things that you take issue with and how you would have represented them better - thematically, not just specific incidents.
I will grant that in most cases it would be better to not lump different Asian cultures together in representation of a culture - often Chinese and Japanese cultures get represented in mass media as being pretty much the same... "generic Asian". Shows could do better with this with lots of cultures... Hispanic, European, African... the nuances could be used - but again, it's a balance to tell stories with icons\references people understand in broad strokes so I don't think it's malicious as much as lazy (which is more ignorance than anything), particularly in a show that is mixing it in as part of everyday accepted life, not trying to vilify or put any connotation on it.
I could argue in this specific case with Firefly though... USA and China are the two powers of the Earth. That would mean they incorporated many of the other cultures ... did it split down geographic lines or cultural lines? Wouldn't that mean that the China power really became "generic east" and USA became "generic west" in basic form? Just a thought...
You're comments are swinging a bit back and forth on your stance - this started with consideration that Firefly might have handled cultural use better to now they were disrespectful and whitewashing and stereotyping... not sure how to address this with things so muddled. It is a TV show from 2002 remember so some historical context might be required for consideration - I mean China was the bad guy in most movies during that time and here's a show that represented it with just being a natural part of a white guy's knowledge and lexicon.
Thanks for the thorough reply.
Yeah, I do admit the show should get credit for hiring a translator. It did come out during a time when actors just spoke gibberish instead. And in my honest opinion, I liked the language mix.
Agreed. I actually picked Firefly as my example because it was a bit greyer than other shows I had in mind. Might have bit off a bit more than I intended though :p
I think when as an ethnic group we bring up things like cultural appropriation, fetishization, or out right racism, we're asking to be recognized as a whole, but accepted as an individual. This is where, a show like Firefly, obviously loves the whole (the tea sets, textiles, and foods) but not an individual person (the casting). And this is out of scope of Firefly, but this is an attitude that has existed since colonial Britain. Also see it in some parts if anime culture.
My position has not changed, but perhaps I can explain it better. For me, Firefly is that person that asks "if you have computers and movie theatres in China" or "how do you honour your parents". For them, these are honest questions and they don't come from a place of hate, and likely the opposite. They want to know more, they just don't know how or what. They weren't meaning to be disrespectful, but it doesn't change that their questions were. Like you've mentioned, Firefly is old, and I watched it when Lucy Luu was the only Asian actor, so back then, I didn't thinking twice about the casting. In fact, things like seeing a Japanese tea set was cool. Now, it feels dated.
I still love the show, but also know, if it came out last year, it would be considered unwatchable. Which for me is sort of a cool thought.
I hope this clarifies my stance a bit. This has been really good discussion.
Seems to me that firefly simply ended too soon to have the opportunity to explore more characters, since the vast majority of the story is about the hillbillies who refuse to assimilate into the status quo government. Given more seasons I think we would have seen many more characters. In Firefly the Chinese ended up winning the culture wars. It's a given that the characters adopt chinese motifs, names, words, and even attitudes. because in show that's the culture of the characters. It would make very little sense for there not to be racially chinese characters as the show goes on and explores more of the universe.
So no, I don't think it's cultural appropriation. It may be whitewashing, but I'm circumspect about that given that the show simply didn't get to cover the vast majority of life in the show's universe. If it had more ... show it would be easier to say.
We should kickstart another season so we can test this hypothesis!
Is it culturally offensive? I don't think it is, so I don't care.
The 'culture wars' are the latest distraction tactic from real important issues and I find that offensive.