14 votes

Fox News violates Poland's holocaust law with reference to "Polish death camp"

12 comments

  1. [8]
    Zeph
    Link
    Though I understand it was not a Polish decision, some citizens were involved in these death camps and the extermination of Jewish people. For instance:...

    Though I understand it was not a Polish decision, some citizens were involved in these death camps and the extermination of Jewish people.

    For instance:
    https://theconversation.com/amp/poland-is-trying-to-rewrite-history-with-this-controversial-new-holocaust-law-91774

    With the help of testimonies from Holocaust survivors, Gross revealed in 2000 that Polish citizens took part in a 1941 massacre in the small town of Jedwabne, helping German occupiers to murder their Jewish neighbours.

    I think it's a shame the article here didn't bring this up.

    7 votes
    1. najodleglejszy
      Link Parent
      I mean, some Jews were kapos in concentration camps, but it still would be foolish to call them "Jewish death camps".

      I mean, some Jews were kapos in concentration camps, but it still would be foolish to call them "Jewish death camps".

      6 votes
    2. [5]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [4]
        Neverland
        Link Parent
        Do you have any sources to support that?

        But, it's important to remember that a huge number of Poles were fairly enthusiastic for the Holocaust to happen.

        Do you have any sources to support that?

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. Neverland
            Link Parent
            Wow, that's really rough. Thanks, I need to read up on all that.

            Wow, that's really rough. Thanks, I need to read up on all that.

            6 votes
          2. [2]
            najodleglejszy
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            the article is behind the paywall, but the title makes me think of szmalcowniks, who were generally held in contempt as far as I know. edit: fun fact, remember Snatchers from Harry Potter? the...

            the article is behind the paywall, but the title makes me think of szmalcowniks, who were generally held in contempt as far as I know.

            edit: fun fact, remember Snatchers from Harry Potter? the name was translated as "szmalcowniks" in the Polish version.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment removed by site admin
              Link Parent
              1. najodleglejszy
                Link Parent
                I hit the paywall yet again. thanks for the quotes, I'm now intrigued about how widespread it was. the last quote you pasted makes me wonder how much it was a matter of those upstanding citizens...

                I hit the paywall yet again. thanks for the quotes, I'm now intrigued about how widespread it was.

                the last quote you pasted makes me wonder how much it was a matter of those upstanding citizens not being reproached because of not being caught, and not because of their behaviour being accepted. as far as I know, Poland's underground government punished any kind of collaboration with the occupants pretty heavily (and I assume contributing to their goals would count as such)... but then again, I'm a Pole, have no idea if and how much the education I've received has been biased, and I've slept through most of my history classes anyway (:

                2 votes
    3. [3]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        Neverland
        Link Parent
        I am a very liberal Polak, currently live in Poland, and hate the current government. However, the core of this law actually makes sense to me. That is a very radical statement that is not at all...

        I am a very liberal Polak, currently live in Poland, and hate the current government. However, the core of this law actually makes sense to me.

        The Polish law is essentially Poland's right-wing government legislating Holocaust denialism.

        That is a very radical statement that is not at all supported by your quotes, or by the thrust of the law. Holocaust denial is the denial that the holocaust never happened, correct? Poland is not denying that the holocaust happened.

        Here is a much more nuanced and understanding look at the law from the left-leaning Israeli paper Haaretz. It is written by a previous Israeli minister of education.

        8 votes
        1. [2]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. Neverland
            Link Parent
            Tbh, I have not read the law myself, but as I understand it, it only refers to the “Polish Deathcamp” aspect, not the remainder of any atrocities committed, which I’m sure there are plenty of.

            Tbh, I have not read the law myself, but as I understand it, it only refers to the “Polish Deathcamp” aspect, not the remainder of any atrocities committed, which I’m sure there are plenty of.

            5 votes
  2. [2]
    Zeerph
    Link
    While the sentiment is understandable (Poland doesn't want to be associated with Nazi death camps), how does the Polish government intend to expand its jurisdiction beyond Poland? They aren't like...

    Poland revised its anti-defamation law twice this year to ban the use of the phrase “Polish death camp,” by anyone in any country, in an effort to shield Poles from blame for crimes against humanity committed during the Nazi occupation.

    While the sentiment is understandable (Poland doesn't want to be associated with Nazi death camps), how does the Polish government intend to expand its jurisdiction beyond Poland?

    They aren't like the US, who can just bully people into compliance, or wait for for the accused to travel there.

    5 votes
    1. Zeph
      Link Parent
      It's just diplomacy. Its really no different to talking about Korean comfort women in Japan, or calling a country Taiwan instead of its actual name. These are diplomatic hot topics that will...

      It's just diplomacy. Its really no different to talking about Korean comfort women in Japan, or calling a country Taiwan instead of its actual name. These are diplomatic hot topics that will result in offended nations, citizens, and ambassadors which will only serve to harm international diplomacy.

      The fine is likely nonsense, but if they do fine a person or organisation and it's not resolved then that becomes a diplomatic black mark for the host country, and not only in Polands eyes. Lots of countries can relate to Poland, if Polish claims are ignored then it further illegitimizes their own.

      5 votes
  3. nsz
    Link
    Ah just figured out that the phrase refers to camps owned by Polish people not camps for Polish people. Why not call it a Nazi Concentration Camp? is there a difference?

    Ah just figured out that the phrase refers to camps owned by Polish people not camps for Polish people.

    Why not call it a Nazi Concentration Camp? is there a difference?

    2 votes