trucute's recent activity
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Comment on Tackling violence against women: the elusive concept of consent in ~life.women
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Comment on Tackling violence against women: the elusive concept of consent in ~life.women
trucute Link ParentI have been accused of being overly-charitable before, so it's possible I'm too far in that direction, lol. This is kind of the embedded toxic masculinity I was talking about. What if they're too...I have been accused of being overly-charitable before, so it's possible I'm too far in that direction, lol.
I believe there are also men (at the risk of being uncharitable) who’ve not put in any effort yet expect a positive result (“I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas”)
This is kind of the embedded toxic masculinity I was talking about. What if they're too depressed to try? What if they have a neurodivergence that makes it difficult for them to plan and execute self-improvement? The assumption is that they have some kind of moral failing, and that they don't deserve any help because they need to "man up".
but if they’ve become bitter and entitled following a negative experience (e.g. rejection) that’s another
Being rejected can be extremely painful. And some people, especially if they're used to unwanted advances, can be callous with how they reject someone, especially if that person expressing interest is socially awkward.
I don't think someone who's given up after being rejected is irredeemable. They probably need therapy. But also probably feel like they're drowning in the ocean. And because self-help for men is shunned by the left, many of the ones that do seek support reach for the nearest thing: a lifeboat filled with misogyny and figures like Andrew Tate.
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Comment on Tackling violence against women: the elusive concept of consent in ~life.women
trucute Link ParentWhen I said rape I was implicitly including attempted rape, which as you quoted, the CDC groups together the for statistics. I more-so wanted to highlight the difference as it affects our...When I said rape I was implicitly including attempted rape, which as you quoted, the CDC groups together the for statistics. I more-so wanted to highlight the difference as it affects our worldview, and living in a world where 1/3 isn't great for one's mental health. The 1/4 figure, according to the CDC, for rape and attempted rape is still way too high and not much better, but little wins, right?
Power and sense of entitlement of women's bodies absolutely plays into it. I believe other types of sexual violence can arise from misreading signals, or some men believing they're makings someone's day when catcalling, etc. And that doesn't diminish the harm those types of sexual violence inflict, but I believe recognizing the cause of those crimes as being different helps to diagnose how to fix things. Some of those lesser (I hate using that word in this context) crimes could be better eradicated via education and social/cultural changes, as opposed to whatever mechanisms we can use to help eradicate rape.
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Comment on Tackling violence against women: the elusive concept of consent in ~life.women
trucute (edited )Link ParentI'm not sure you should immediately discard your friends' feelings about this statement. Yes, you're saying that it's almost always men who rape women, which is true. But they probably feel like...Even close friends will get easily agitated when I mentioned that almost always it is men who rape women but they felt attacked and wanted to point out that not all men are like that (;but somehow always men, as the saying goes).
I'm not sure you should immediately discard your friends' feelings about this statement. Yes, you're saying that it's almost always men who rape women, which is true. But they probably feel like you're saying most men are rapists, which is why they're pushing back.
I feel something that wasn't mentioned yet is the rise of the incel and subsequent hustle bros who captivate their audience
I feel like a lot of this emerges from two main things:
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The propensity for the left (admittedly a bit US centric) to distance themselves from figures that fulfill that stereotypical macho man aesthetic. If you do that, is it any wonder that most of those figures end up alt-right adjacent? One example I have is Andrew Huberman. I've seen him as being described as alt-right adjacent. I used to listen to his podcasts early on and never noticed any political leanings or tendencies. And you can definitely argue that he's a bit of a quack and a charlatan, but I don't think that substantiates linking him with alt-right.
This kind of plays into another thing you said
This is very much a counter-movement towards more equality and this makes the progress slow.
I think this kind of thinking is damaging, and it's a vicious cycle. Any self-help for men gets shunned out of leftist circles from a zero-sum game mentality that improving men's lives must be a net-negative to women's rights. And yes, there's a lot of misogyny in these circles, but I would argue that's by and large a byproduct of reinforcement by pushing these kinds of figures out of leftist circles. And the concept of self-improvement for men doesn't necessarily need to be tied to misogyny, but few on the left are catering to or sympathizing for lonely men, so they are being pushed towards the alt-right. In my head, it's similar to how disenfranchised kids are pushed towards gangs.
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The other is the toxic masculinity that sneakily pervades in feminist circles. I'll quote @ButteredToast as an example, who also replied to you. (This is not an attack! We all have our blindspots, and if I have any please point them out to me)
It’s more comfortable and convenient for these men to see the root of this problem as lying in womens’ choice rather than in their own (very fixable) inadequacies
In my eyes, this is essentially telling struggling men to man up and improve themselves, which can be much easier to do than asking why these men are struggling, and what we can do to help them. And it's easy to reduce people to statistics: These men are struggling when men have so many advantages over women, so it must be their fault. I don't think that's a kind, productive, or healthy sentiment. As it can be easy to victim blame women (she was asking for it /s), turns out it can also be easy to victim blame men.
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Comment on Tackling violence against women: the elusive concept of consent in ~life.women
trucute (edited )Link ParentI just want to take the time to highlight how we interpret, and sometimes inadvertently transform language. I assume your line of 1/3 is referencing the EU statistic on physical and sexual...- Exemplary
I just want to take the time to highlight how we interpret, and sometimes inadvertently transform language.
I think it's important to call attention to some of the data. One third of women are being raped. [1]
and one in three (33%) have endured physical and/or sexual violence. (emphasis added)
I assume your line of 1/3 is referencing the EU statistic on physical and sexual violence. While sexual violence includes rape (and mind you, the definition of sexual violence may differ depending on the reporting body), but can also potentially include things such as groping or public verbal harassment. And not that either of those are OK, but they are different from rape. And even rape, as evidenced in the article, can have different definitions like depending on how you define consent or non-consent.
And that 1/3 statistic also includes physical violence which is a different category altogether that might have some overlap with sexual violence.
In the bigger picture, be mindful of any infographics or distillation-style content you consume, or anything word-of-mouth really. The author may not be trying to mislead you, but may have inadvertently changed a key word or phrase that distorts the original reports/data.
I wanted to put out another take on how we reduce sexual violence. I think a lot of it comes down to how men and women interact in the dating world, and that is the expectation that men pursue women and do the leading when it comes to dating. Of course there are exceptions to this and attempts to subvert this have been attempted(see Bumble), but I think it still holds true and isn't something that has truly been challenged. I think in order to tackle this it needs to be codified in our education system.
We need to revamp our sexual education to be holistic and include dating skills (with hands on lessons). Teaching boys and girls how to ask someone out, read social cues around dating and consent (both physical and verbal), that it's ok to be rejected, and also how to politely turn someone down. I think if everyone were taught hands on knowledge and skills around these, it would reduce the unrealistic beauty standards imposed upon women, decrease the loneliness epidemic (a lot of these skills apply to making and maintaining friendships as an adult), and reduce sexual violence.
Even with the assumption that they’re “rejecting the basic self-responsibility expected of participants in society,” how do we stop the problem from getting worse? What we’re currently doing doesn’t seem to be working.