Discussion for Malazan Book of the Fallen
I recently finished The Crippled God and loved the book and the entire series. I'm already looking forward to a reread through the series to notice new things and see how events play out from the perspective gained after finishing the series.
I'm still trying to get my thoughts in order for this whole series, but I had some questions that I thought would be interesting to hear from people here after talking about it a bit with my coworker.
What were some of your favorite characters?
Favorite moments?
What did you not see coming?
How did you feel about the perspective shift on the Crippled God as the series progressed?
Have you reread the series, and did you enjoy it more during an additional read?
Anything else fun you'd like to talk about for these books
Please note, this is a discussion of the 10 Malazan Book of the Fallen novels. I've yet to delve in to the rest of the Malazan series, and I am taking a break before I start on the Novels of the Malazan Empire series.
Wow, these took a lot more thought than I expected!
Toc the Younger, Seren Pedac, Heboric, Stormy & Gesler (& Roach & Bent), Picker & Blend
Itkovian giving his all as Shield Anvil
Tavore becoming the linchpin of the main story
I caught on slowly, and when it hit me, I could barely believe it. It was so moving and satisfying.
I've read all of these, plus Novels, plus Path to Ascendancy, plus Kharkanas, plus the two Witness books three times. I've enjoyed it more and more each time. You catch what obscure or throwaway lines mean, get less confused about characters and back stories. I personally most enjoyed getting to know the geography and peoples much better. They are so well thought out, Erikson being an archaeologist.
Perhaps not fun, but uplifting: I was at a dead stall on my dissertation, with two babies at home, when I took a chance on Gardens of the Moon. I was hooked and moved on to Deadhouse Gates. It was the relentless Chain of Dogs story that got me to push through the dissertation, on a whole new topic, in just a couple of months. It was a reminder to me that you just aren't going to know how things will turn out, but if it's what you have to do, you do it, no matter how hard.
Some lines are so overt I facepalmed when I read them again. Shadowthrone's identity isn't just foreshadowed, it's very close to being outright confirmed early in the books. I didn't pick up on that the first time but so many things are so much clearer that I could focus more on the what than the why and it made them all a better read.
True! Similarly, I thought the Crippled God and the Dying God were the same thing for an entire book.
I'll be honest, that entire sequence in the abyss with Bellurdan's soul becoming a god and fashioning himself a stick and twine body because he saw Hairlock show up for a sec was exceptionally confusing. It barely registered the first time around what even happened. It definitely didn't help I was thoroughly disinterested in the navel gazing Tiste Andii party and Nimander's indecision throughout the book so I got overwhelmed by the changing perspectives of these inhuman creatures.
Eriksen can make the perspective of an otherworldly creature so complex and alien it's hard to grasp without flipping back a page or two to read it again.
If I recall correctly, I think the book sort of alludes to the possibility the Crippled God is behind the corruption until the reveal (but I'm not one hundo on that).
Ha, me neither. I did think Nimander's party was boring and Clip was irritating. Definitely not the strongest thread in the series.
I can't remember if I had to look up that it was the part of Bellurdan's soul that created the Dying God or if I realized it during the confrontation. I did like that it happened as a plot thread though, since Silver Fox basically combining three souls and there being some unintended devastating consequences of that felt so interesting and also made me question what must have happened with putting Quick Ben together.
I think that the Tiste Andii being more naval gazing as a people can make some sense considering how long most of them have lived, and I know I would probably be a lot more introspective if I had lived that long and also had so a good memory. That being said, there sections could be slower than others and I wasn't always looking forward to getting through them.
I agree with all of your points. I mostly like the Tiste Andii, but Nimander and Clip were just particularly slow burns. When a nigh immortal being ponders indecision it just means very little happens for a long time.
You're right about the implications of Quick Ben too! The idea that Bellurdan's soul corrupts, although part of it was the Abyss' doing, makes it so that Ben is uniquely singular in how he's put together.
I just felt that these parts of the book didn't hit quite as much on the first read. The showdown at Bastion because it was confusing, the Nimander story because it took a while to get going.
I wonder if Quick Ben's merging was cleaner since it was with the consent of the other mages that their souls were merged in to his body vs Silver Foxes "creation" by forced merging those pieces of the three souls.
I think that the Nimander story may be better on a reread, but we'll see how that holds up for me in the future. I don't plan on rereading these for at least another 10 years or so.
Long after their violent deaths too. Bellurdan, Nightchill and Tattersail were all ripped apart by magic and/or magical beings and then unintentionally soulshifted into the remains of Nightchill.
While Quick Ben's souls' owners were exhausted, likely malnourished and very near death... They were alive.
It's also implied the souls were in contention within Silverfox. They were desperately trying to get Tattersail as the dominant soul. It left Bellurdan's soul a fragment when it ended up in the Abyss. It likely corrupted him.
Tattersail remarks how rare Quick Ben's soulshifting magic on Hairlock is early on in the series. I surmise it must be difficult to get right.
Rereads of this series makes one much more in tune with the here and now. The books can be confusing if you don't know where it's going or sometimes even who they're talking about. That's much less of a concern the second go and you'll pick up quite a few more details while also being a much more relaxed reading experience.
I'm curious how Seran Pedac's storyline continues in the Witness trilogy, as I felt like there was going to be more going on there in the conclusion, but it was nice seeing her still be relevant finding a place for the Imass.
I also didn't realize just how important Tavore would be, especially when we're introduced to her early on in the books.
I thought Gardens of the Moon was good, but the Chain of Dogs made me realize that these books were so highly praised for a reason.
I'm so curious about that. Do we know whether it will continue? I figured her son would be a good storyline, but I'd rather see her as well.
Yeah, that happened for me too. But I really like the zero prior exposition style, so as pieces started to fall into place, it was really rewarding revising my thoughts about what might be going on. But I was a big Kierkegaard guy in college, so it feels similar that way.
I feel like Icarium was always there as a potential wildcard in all the plans/schemes for the different gods/ascendants since he functions as almost like a walking tactical nuke.
His story was also just tragic. I'm curious if he'll encounter Karsa Orlong in the Witness series for their long await encounter.
I agree with you on those favorite characters. Fiddler is fantastic, and I'm curious what Quick Ben is up to after all of this ended.
I'm only scanning this topic as I'm in the middle of the Bone Hunters but man, what a series. Academic turned author is my favorite origin story for good fantasy.
EriksonDoesWhatRoberJordanDon'T
Cyberpunk velociraptors in floating fortresses?! Yes please!
YESSSSS
Oh forgot to mention … with swords for arms! Lololol
This Sunbutt for definitely has a shaved knuckle in the hole... 🤌🤌
I hope you enjoy the series! I wish I had read it sooner, but I also thoroughly enjoyed working through the series as adult with kids.
I'm excited to dive in to the rest of Malazan soon, there's so much great lore and they are so prolific.
Very different from its contemporaries. My wife and I did the audiobooks for the first go around, and while it was good, I'm eager to read it on the next run.
Oh gosh, these books.
I read the main series years ago, and then also read everything of Esslemont. (I enjoyed the latter way less, though strangely, specific scenes of his books did leave a more lasting impact. The characters, however, did not.) About a year ago I decided to give the whole series another try, so I could jump into Kharkanas and the others with everything fresh in mind. I've currently finished my second read through, read the two Kharkanas books so far, and will probably start the witness next.
It goes without saying that I've enjoyed this series immensely. A second read definitely adds to the richness of the story and helps with puzzling it all together. However, I also feel that the praise Erikson gets for his labyrinthine plots is only partly justified. Sometimes it's truly a worthwhile ride and adds to the overall experience. Sometimes it's just a meandering mess that tries to hide it's random plotline-stitchwork behind verbose philosophising and 'actually a god planned it' shenanigans.
Same for his characters. After a reread, it's obvious to me that Erikson knows how to write a gripping character with a full arc, flaws triumphs and a rich inner world. But then half of the rest of the cast just serves as a mouthpiece for the Erikson himself. It bothers me to no end, especially in Kharkanas, but then again I keep reading so I suppose it's not that bad.
As for favourite characters:
Fiddler for being larger then life in his small humaneness.
Mappo Runt and Trull Sengar because I'm a sucker for tragedy.
T'ool used to be a favourite the first time I read it, and back then I never quite understood the Paran family. This time though, T'ool was a bit too much (Trull does it better), and I adored Tavore and Paran.
Lastly, any Jaghut. They're all just so fun in their rare appearances, especially Hood and Gothos.
The perspective shift you mentioned truly is what elevates these books for me. Brilliantly done, a slow burn that you barely notice until suddenly you realize: why yes, it appears I have switched sides.
What I didn't see coming was basically everything Heboric does. I truly don't like the character, and feel like he's just a walking plot device for no good reason.
A better twist was (first time reading ofc) the true identity of Bugg. And recently, I'm really digging the revelations on the elder warrens in the Kharkanas trilogy. (Won't spoil that)
One more thing: I love, love, LOVE the magic system in these books. It is just the right mixture of systematic and mysterious. I do hope that one day we get a fully fledged malazan tabletop system.