While it's not entirely related to the subject matter; speaking as someone who is (somewhat) in that community, I want to comment on a few things in the "GNU Community." First thing's first: It's...
While it's not entirely related to the subject matter; speaking as someone who is (somewhat) in that community, I want to comment on a few things in the "GNU Community."
First thing's first:
It's not a real community. There's very little communication between projects, even ones tied fairly close together.
Second thing:
If you're thinking that the GNU project would have mailing lists down to a T after three decades of using them, you're so, so, so infinitely wrong.
Third thing, and probably the most confusing:
The closer the project you're working on is to rms, the less likely communication around the project will be open.
The final thing:
The biggest thing everyone needs to understand about the GNU community is just that it's behind. It's antiquated. It hasn't - and probably never will have - gotten fully up-to-date. It's a sight to see, really. Minus a few things, the antiquatedness is fairly charming. A bit like a time capsule, really. Stuck to '80s tech a surprising amount of the time, and morally/socially/tech-knowledge-wise it's fairly frozen.
I'm not incredibly familiar with Linux-* mailing lists, but from what I've seen they're [Linux-based] miles more organized generally speaking, especially versus Savannah-based (GNU's...
I'm not incredibly familiar with Linux-* mailing lists, but from what I've seen they're [Linux-based] miles more organized generally speaking, especially versus Savannah-based (GNU's Github-equivalent) projects.
Ever thought making the only way to see commits easily on a CVS repo would be a mailing list that you're subscribed to by default that spams every single commit on a project in a way that's not easily filterable? GNU has!
Ever thought that the most effective way of communicating about important things in a project is through a mailing list where whatever it is you're saying/suggesting will most likely be ignored, even though there's less than a message a day because most of the people in your project seemingly handle email like rms does? GNU has!
(There're a dozen more problems I have with them, but those are the ones that have really been grating on me.)
This is an annoying and completely unproductive thing to do and besides - I know many women who refer to their friends as dudes or guys regardless of gender.
In these days I observe the Guix mantainers correcting people in the IRC channel when they write "dudes" or "guys" and they correct them suggesting "folks" or "people" instead.
This is an annoying and completely unproductive thing to do and besides - I know many women who refer to their friends as dudes or guys regardless of gender.
It seems to a value that the IRC channel holds dear. A couple of people have quit the project over being embarrassed by being called out publically for saying hi guys. I suggested that they write...
It seems to a value that the IRC channel holds dear.
A couple of people have quit the project over being embarrassed by being called out publically for saying hi guys.
I suggested that they write down this social norm in the code of conduct but for some reason they don't want to make it explicit.. unclear why to me. In my opinion putting these things explicitly is a real help to some of the hacker types that are a little higher on the autistic spectrum than others.
It's neither spectrum nor autistic to not play the insane eggshell dance of the modern left.
In my opinion putting these things explicitly is a real help to some of the hacker types that are a little higher on the autistic spectrum than others.
It's neither spectrum nor autistic to not play the insane eggshell dance of the modern left.
The problem seems to be more with their attitude than their politics, but I can probably see how they became that way from repeated online arguments about the same topics.
The problem seems to be more with their attitude than their politics, but I can probably see how they became that way from repeated online arguments about the same topics.
I think this raises some important points, GNU represents the old world of open source and while it deserves a lot of respect, it cannot be immune from cricism. That said, I don't think Weaver...
I think this raises some important points, GNU represents the old world of open source and while it deserves a lot of respect, it cannot be immune from cricism.
That said, I don't think Weaver acted out of line here. His responses were a little curt, but that's forgivable given the limited time that people in open source have to devote to their work. They certainly didn't justify a blog post about how rude he was. Besides, I feel that the author was themselves quite confrontational in their attitude:
Aren' t Racket macros higienyc ?
This is a fairly aggressive style of discourse. It's directly and pointedly trying to expose a flaw in the other party's argument for the sake of proving a point. Yes, that's a valid way to debate and discuss, but if you intend on being that pointed with your language, then you can expect equally frank responses.
As a sidenote, did anyone else find this blogpost extremely hard to read? Paragraphs and sentences with more than six words in were invented for a reason. The author is obviously smart - so I wish they had invested a little more time into making their post lucid and digestible.
I think the time capsule is important for political reasons; but I hope you newcomers (I am not a programmer) persevere. RMS is only one man, with plenty of flaws. (For me, his classical liberal...
I think the time capsule is important for political reasons; but I hope you newcomers (I am not a programmer) persevere. RMS is only one man, with plenty of flaws. (For me, his classical liberal politics are totally at odds with the modulated anarchism of free software).
Too few people realize how high the stakes are, or how easy it is for those in power to manipulate people (regardless of education level/ background).
That's my two cents, as a greenhorn in free software.
I would love to hear you elaborate more about your thoughts on these issues. I certainly see a lot of danger in the way social media algorithms can be given disproportionate power and bias people...
I would love to hear you elaborate more about your thoughts on these issues. I certainly see a lot of danger in the way social media algorithms can be given disproportionate power and bias people but I think you have something else in mind?
While it's not entirely related to the subject matter; speaking as someone who is (somewhat) in that community, I want to comment on a few things in the "GNU Community."
First thing's first:
It's not a real community. There's very little communication between projects, even ones tied fairly close together.
Second thing:
If you're thinking that the GNU project would have mailing lists down to a T after three decades of using them, you're so, so, so infinitely wrong.
Third thing, and probably the most confusing:
The closer the project you're working on is to rms, the less likely communication around the project will be open.
The final thing:
The biggest thing everyone needs to understand about the GNU community is just that it's behind. It's antiquated. It hasn't - and probably never will have - gotten fully up-to-date. It's a sight to see, really. Minus a few things, the antiquatedness is fairly charming. A bit like a time capsule, really. Stuck to '80s tech a surprising amount of the time, and morally/socially/tech-knowledge-wise it's fairly frozen.
Mind elaborating on that? How do they compare to linux-* mailing lists?
I'm not incredibly familiar with Linux-* mailing lists, but from what I've seen they're [Linux-based] miles more organized generally speaking, especially versus Savannah-based (GNU's Github-equivalent) projects.
Ever thought making the only way to see commits easily on a CVS repo would be a mailing list that you're subscribed to by default that spams every single commit on a project in a way that's not easily filterable? GNU has!
Ever thought that the most effective way of communicating about important things in a project is through a mailing list where whatever it is you're saying/suggesting will most likely be ignored, even though there's less than a message a day because most of the people in your project seemingly handle email like rms does? GNU has!
(There're a dozen more problems I have with them, but those are the ones that have really been grating on me.)
This is an annoying and completely unproductive thing to do and besides - I know many women who refer to their friends as dudes or guys regardless of gender.
It seems to a value that the IRC channel holds dear.
A couple of people have quit the project over being embarrassed by being called out publically for saying hi guys.
I suggested that they write down this social norm in the code of conduct but for some reason they don't want to make it explicit.. unclear why to me. In my opinion putting these things explicitly is a real help to some of the hacker types that are a little higher on the autistic spectrum than others.
It's neither spectrum nor autistic to not play the insane eggshell dance of the modern left.
The problem seems to be more with their attitude than their politics, but I can probably see how they became that way from repeated online arguments about the same topics.
There’s nothing that would make me quit a project faster than overly-righteous maintainers.
I think this raises some important points, GNU represents the old world of open source and while it deserves a lot of respect, it cannot be immune from cricism.
That said, I don't think Weaver acted out of line here. His responses were a little curt, but that's forgivable given the limited time that people in open source have to devote to their work. They certainly didn't justify a blog post about how rude he was. Besides, I feel that the author was themselves quite confrontational in their attitude:
This is a fairly aggressive style of discourse. It's directly and pointedly trying to expose a flaw in the other party's argument for the sake of proving a point. Yes, that's a valid way to debate and discuss, but if you intend on being that pointed with your language, then you can expect equally frank responses.
As a sidenote, did anyone else find this blogpost extremely hard to read? Paragraphs and sentences with more than six words in were invented for a reason. The author is obviously smart - so I wish they had invested a little more time into making their post lucid and digestible.
I think the time capsule is important for political reasons; but I hope you newcomers (I am not a programmer) persevere. RMS is only one man, with plenty of flaws. (For me, his classical liberal politics are totally at odds with the modulated anarchism of free software).
Too few people realize how high the stakes are, or how easy it is for those in power to manipulate people (regardless of education level/ background).
That's my two cents, as a greenhorn in free software.
I would love to hear you elaborate more about your thoughts on these issues. I certainly see a lot of danger in the way social media algorithms can be given disproportionate power and bias people but I think you have something else in mind?