This probably isn't a popular opinion, but here goes. These horses are breeding faster than the land will sustain. Eventually there will be mass die out (starvation) after major land degradation....
This probably isn't a popular opinion, but here goes. These horses are breeding faster than the land will sustain. Eventually there will be mass die out (starvation) after major land degradation. They are not part of the North America ecosystem, they do not have natural predators, Americans won't eat them, and we have no way to slow down their reproduction. It's ridiculous that we don't cull them or ship them south. Yes, they are wild and free and beautiful, yada yada, but they need to go.
Maybe not anymore, but interestingly enough the Equus genus (which includes horses) is actually believed to have originated in North America, migrated to the other continents potentially via land...
They are not part of the North America ecosystem
Maybe not anymore, but interestingly enough the Equus genus (which includes horses) is actually believed to have originated in North America, migrated to the other continents potentially via land bridges, then later died out in North America. Though that fact aside, your other points still stand, and I entirely agree with them. Culling and population control is a vital part of conservation IMO, especially when it comes to invasive species and even native or reintroduced species that no longer have any natural predators.
I am not an expert by any means, merely a fan of history, so take everything I say with a healthy dose of salt... but I don't think we know much about the specific causes of their extinction from...
I am not an expert by any means, merely a fan of history, so take everything I say with a healthy dose of salt... but I don't think we know much about the specific causes of their extinction from NA, or really any of the other megafauna that disappeared around the same time. There are a bunch of hypotheses though; See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_extinction_event
Did another species out compete them?
Possibly us, according to one of the prominent hypotheses of the extinction event. ;)
In NZ killing for conservation felt pretty mainstream. Now this was mainly done to evil-dirty-ferral possums and rats not good-majestic-freespirited horses, so I guess that image might play part...
In NZ killing for conservation felt pretty mainstream. Now this was mainly done to evil-dirty-ferral possums and rats not good-majestic-freespirited horses, so I guess that image might play part in if it gets considered as justified. This article goes into some details about it. Searching for that I ran into this critique of the concept which I have yet to listen too: https://admin.nzgeo.com/audio/killing-for-conservation-unnecessary/
On the surface it seems closer to the issue with the horses since it talks about donkeys in Australia.
I tried listening to that program in the link you provided... but after 15+min of pedantic semantic debate, the guest strongly trying to imply the host's question (which was clearly asked in...
I tried listening to that program in the link you provided... but after 15+min of pedantic semantic debate, the guest strongly trying to imply the host's question (which was clearly asked in earnest and in good faith) was "chauvinistic", and then proceeding to disparage other conservationists who do support population control as "unscientific", and yet not providing any scientific evidence that supports her own position of no-kill, “compassionate conservation”, I gave up on it. :/
From what little of substance I could actually gather in that time, it seems an interesting idea; Rather than culling invasive species and utilizing population control, instead trying to find a way to help them incorporate themselves into the new ecosystem they have invaded... but sadly that program didn't do much to convince me the idea is a good one, or realistically achievable.
Do you happen to know any other good sources for this idea that stay on track and have a bit more substance to them?
Sadly no, I just stumbled on it when looking for some info on the NZ conservation efforts and thought it might be of interest. The compassionate conservation website seems a bit light on info :/
Sadly no, I just stumbled on it when looking for some info on the NZ conservation efforts and thought it might be of interest. The compassionate conservation website seems a bit light on info :/
Yeah, I noticed that as well. There are a handful of publications listed on their Resources page, but sadly none of them are available to actually read there. And all the listed studies I could...
Yeah, I noticed that as well. There are a handful of publications listed on their Resources page, but sadly none of them are available to actually read there. And all the listed studies I could find the abstracts for seem to be focused almost exclusively on the ethical debate, but none of which are invasive species environmental/biodiversity impact studies, viability studies of alternatives to culling/population control, etc... which seems a bit of a flimsy base to be supporting the idea on, IMO. :/
This probably isn't a popular opinion, but here goes. These horses are breeding faster than the land will sustain. Eventually there will be mass die out (starvation) after major land degradation. They are not part of the North America ecosystem, they do not have natural predators, Americans won't eat them, and we have no way to slow down their reproduction. It's ridiculous that we don't cull them or ship them south. Yes, they are wild and free and beautiful, yada yada, but they need to go.
Maybe not anymore, but interestingly enough the Equus genus (which includes horses) is actually believed to have originated in North America, migrated to the other continents potentially via land bridges, then later died out in North America. Though that fact aside, your other points still stand, and I entirely agree with them. Culling and population control is a vital part of conservation IMO, especially when it comes to invasive species and even native or reintroduced species that no longer have any natural predators.
Do we know why they became extinct 10,000 years ago? Did another species out compete them?
I am not an expert by any means, merely a fan of history, so take everything I say with a healthy dose of salt... but I don't think we know much about the specific causes of their extinction from NA, or really any of the other megafauna that disappeared around the same time. There are a bunch of hypotheses though; See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_extinction_event
Possibly us, according to one of the prominent hypotheses of the extinction event. ;)
In NZ killing for conservation felt pretty mainstream. Now this was mainly done to evil-dirty-ferral possums and rats not good-majestic-freespirited horses, so I guess that image might play part in if it gets considered as justified. This article goes into some details about it. Searching for that I ran into this critique of the concept which I have yet to listen too:
https://admin.nzgeo.com/audio/killing-for-conservation-unnecessary/
On the surface it seems closer to the issue with the horses since it talks about donkeys in Australia.
I tried listening to that program in the link you provided... but after 15+min of pedantic semantic debate, the guest strongly trying to imply the host's question (which was clearly asked in earnest and in good faith) was "chauvinistic", and then proceeding to disparage other conservationists who do support population control as "unscientific", and yet not providing any scientific evidence that supports her own position of no-kill, “compassionate conservation”, I gave up on it. :/
From what little of substance I could actually gather in that time, it seems an interesting idea; Rather than culling invasive species and utilizing population control, instead trying to find a way to help them incorporate themselves into the new ecosystem they have invaded... but sadly that program didn't do much to convince me the idea is a good one, or realistically achievable.
Do you happen to know any other good sources for this idea that stay on track and have a bit more substance to them?
Sadly no, I just stumbled on it when looking for some info on the NZ conservation efforts and thought it might be of interest. The compassionate conservation website seems a bit light on info :/
Yeah, I noticed that as well. There are a handful of publications listed on their Resources page, but sadly none of them are available to actually read there. And all the listed studies I could find the abstracts for seem to be focused almost exclusively on the ethical debate, but none of which are invasive species environmental/biodiversity impact studies, viability studies of alternatives to culling/population control, etc... which seems a bit of a flimsy base to be supporting the idea on, IMO. :/