So, I'm absolutely not familiar with speedrun lingo, could you please translate that in plain English? Edit: thanks for all the explanations! @pseudolobster youtube links are really well made and...
So, I'm absolutely not familiar with speedrun lingo, could you please translate that in plain English?
A frame is the smallest unit of time in a game, similar to movies or other animated images. There's many of them per second, but it's valuable to measure it this way because they're the smallest...
A frame is the smallest unit of time in a game, similar to movies or other animated images. There's many of them per second, but it's valuable to measure it this way because they're the smallest discrete unit. There's no half-frames.
A TAS is a tool assisted speedrun, where someone creates a program to engage in optimal play.
So this speedrunner is only 4 increments of time behind the currently known optimal maximum.
TAS stands for tool-assisted speedrun, which is a speedrun where a computer is utilized to actually perform the inputs when the game is running, which means that everything can happen with...
TAS stands for tool-assisted speedrun, which is a speedrun where a computer is utilized to actually perform the inputs when the game is running, which means that everything can happen with frame-perfect accuracy. This speedrunner matched a computer for speed and accuracy up until world 8, level 4, and beat the game only four frames (~a tenth of a second) after the computer did. This speedrun was very, very close to literally perfect.
Not OP but to explain everything: TAS stands for Tool Assisted Speedrun. It means that someone programmed a series of inputs to play a game perfectly. Só when someone refers to a TAS of a game,...
Not OP but to explain everything:
TAS stands for Tool Assisted Speedrun. It means that someone programmed a series of inputs to play a game perfectly. Só when someone refers to a TAS of a game, they're referring to this computer generate perfect Speedrun.
What Niftski (the speed runner in the video) did here was they perfectly matched the TAS all the way up to world 8 level 4 (the last level in the game). That means they played perfectly up until then. There is literally no more time to save in the run all the way up until the very last level.
And if that wasn't enough, Super Mario Bros runs at 60 FPS (frames per second), and the TAS is only a mere 4 frames ahead of the record you see Niftski achieve in this video, which is absolutely monumental for a human.
Usually a TAS is a theoretical perfect run and in most games no player ever achieves a run even close to it, but Niftski here is getting close to the actual physical limit of the game's record.
For a little more clarity, 8-4 has been the only difference in time between top players and the TAS for a while due to something called "frame rules" in the community. Basically, the game only...
For a little more clarity, 8-4 has been the only difference in time between top players and the TAS for a while due to something called "frame rules" in the community.
Basically, the game only checks to see if a level is complete and load the next level every 21 frames, so if a human is behind the TAS but within the same 21-frame window as the TAS at the end of a level, you catch up because the TAS has a longer load between levels than the human.
Keep in mind, the framerule window may be tighter than 21-frames depending on where in the sequence the TAS completed the level.
But in 8-4 there isn't another level to be loaded, so the human is competing 1:1 against the TAS.
The new human record is within the same frame rule as the TAS up until the last level, and 1/15th of a second behind the TAS in the final level.
People in the video comments are saying 22 frames, where's 4 coming from? Edit: The runner himself also says 22 frames behind in the video description.
only a mere 4 frames ahead
People in the video comments are saying 22 frames, where's 4 coming from?
Edit: The runner himself also says 22 frames behind in the video description.
What happens now? I know this question gets asked and immediately becomes pointless in speedrunning communities thanks to new discoveries and exploits, but now that humans have managed to tie with...
What happens now? I know this question gets asked and immediately becomes pointless in speedrunning communities thanks to new discoveries and exploits, but now that humans have managed to tie with the current optimal TAS run, what actually comes next?
Well... he is still some frames behind a TAS, so the next logical step would be actually tying with it, which means a frame-perfect run. At this point, the game is so optimized that this could...
Well... he is still some frames behind a TAS, so the next logical step would be actually tying with it, which means a frame-perfect run. At this point, the game is so optimized that this could take years. Once I thought it could never be achieved, but damn, a run that is just four frames behind TAS? Now I'm starting to think that we might get to see it something like that.
Once that point is reached, I think the game is pretty much dead though. The only way to get a better time would be if some new exploit is discovered. TAS are fabricated with the knowledge of the game mechanic and exploits current to the date when they were made, so its not the definitive possible best time... just the best that can be reached with all of our knowledge of the game at that point in time.
The thing is, Super Mario Bros is pretty much the most researched and optimized games for speed runs, so at this point I think it is pretty difficult to a new exploit to come up.
TAS = Tool Assisted Speedrun Means that they used various tools to make the run as close to perfect as possible. Save states, slowing the game down, programming inputs, etc. Basically anything...
TAS = Tool Assisted Speedrun
Means that they used various tools to make the run as close to perfect as possible. Save states, slowing the game down, programming inputs, etc. Basically anything goes. TAS runs are often impossible for humans to compare to since they can put out more inputs than a human can, and more precisely.
This is one of those rare occasions where someone has tied, and is now just 4 frames behind, what is considered "the perfect run" for the category.
Wow! This is the first time I've seen this new 4-2 strat where he increases his X position for the wrong-warp by doing a backwards walljump on the pipe. That's incredible! For anyone who wants a...
Wow! This is the first time I've seen this new 4-2 strat where he increases his X position for the wrong-warp by doing a backwards walljump on the pipe. That's incredible!
For anyone who wants a bit of context, this is a world record speedrun for Super Mario Bros, which is often considered one of the most optimized runs in all of speedrunning. Incredibly skilled players have been playing this game constantly, like thousands of hours times hundreds of people, for decades trying to shave off a third of a second. Time after time, hundreds of new tricks have been discovered that shave fractions of seconds off the run's time — if perfectly executed. To perfectly execute these runs some button presses need to be timed to the sixtieth of a second, and there's several of them in this run.
This is an absolutely ridiculous run. There are a couple of "TAS-matching" runs out there, but most of them are really silly things like the Clue game where you just mash "accuse" as fast as you...
This is an absolutely ridiculous run. There are a couple of "TAS-matching" runs out there, but most of them are really silly things like the Clue game where you just mash "accuse" as fast as you can until the RNG gives you an instant win. This is a "real" run that people have been working on for years, and it's now borderline-perfect.
Tied with the TAS until 8-4, according to YouTube commenters. Ends four frames behind TAS. That's insane.
So, I'm absolutely not familiar with speedrun lingo, could you please translate that in plain English?
Edit: thanks for all the explanations!
@pseudolobster youtube links are really well made and gave me the best understanding, see https://tildes.net/~games/1a8f/super_mario_bros_any_speedrun_in_4_54_631#comment-aini
A frame is the smallest unit of time in a game, similar to movies or other animated images. There's many of them per second, but it's valuable to measure it this way because they're the smallest discrete unit. There's no half-frames.
A TAS is a tool assisted speedrun, where someone creates a program to engage in optimal play.
So this speedrunner is only 4 increments of time behind the currently known optimal maximum.
TAS stands for tool-assisted speedrun, which is a speedrun where a computer is utilized to actually perform the inputs when the game is running, which means that everything can happen with frame-perfect accuracy. This speedrunner matched a computer for speed and accuracy up until world 8, level 4, and beat the game only four frames (~a tenth of a second) after the computer did. This speedrun was very, very close to literally perfect.
Not OP but to explain everything:
TAS stands for Tool Assisted Speedrun. It means that someone programmed a series of inputs to play a game perfectly. Só when someone refers to a TAS of a game, they're referring to this computer generate perfect Speedrun.
What Niftski (the speed runner in the video) did here was they perfectly matched the TAS all the way up to world 8 level 4 (the last level in the game). That means they played perfectly up until then. There is literally no more time to save in the run all the way up until the very last level.
And if that wasn't enough, Super Mario Bros runs at 60 FPS (frames per second), and the TAS is only a mere 4 frames ahead of the record you see Niftski achieve in this video, which is absolutely monumental for a human.
Usually a TAS is a theoretical perfect run and in most games no player ever achieves a run even close to it, but Niftski here is getting close to the actual physical limit of the game's record.
For a little more clarity, 8-4 has been the only difference in time between top players and the TAS for a while due to something called "frame rules" in the community.
Basically, the game only checks to see if a level is complete and load the next level every 21 frames, so if a human is behind the TAS but within the same 21-frame window as the TAS at the end of a level, you catch up because the TAS has a longer load between levels than the human.
Keep in mind, the framerule window may be tighter than 21-frames depending on where in the sequence the TAS completed the level.
But in 8-4 there isn't another level to be loaded, so the human is competing 1:1 against the TAS.
The new human record is within the same frame rule as the TAS up until the last level, and 1/15th of a second behind the TAS in the final level.
People in the video comments are saying 22 frames, where's 4 coming from?
Edit: The runner himself also says 22 frames behind in the video description.
I got the 4 frames from one of the commenters on the video. If the runner says 22, I'd believe him.
Still, 22 frames is amazing.
Still only around a third of a second, for anyone who had that tenth of a second number as their real measuring stick.
What happens now? I know this question gets asked and immediately becomes pointless in speedrunning communities thanks to new discoveries and exploits, but now that humans have managed to tie with the current optimal TAS run, what actually comes next?
Well... he is still some frames behind a TAS, so the next logical step would be actually tying with it, which means a frame-perfect run. At this point, the game is so optimized that this could take years. Once I thought it could never be achieved, but damn, a run that is just four frames behind TAS? Now I'm starting to think that we might get to see it something like that.
Once that point is reached, I think the game is pretty much dead though. The only way to get a better time would be if some new exploit is discovered. TAS are fabricated with the knowledge of the game mechanic and exploits current to the date when they were made, so its not the definitive possible best time... just the best that can be reached with all of our knowledge of the game at that point in time.
The thing is, Super Mario Bros is pretty much the most researched and optimized games for speed runs, so at this point I think it is pretty difficult to a new exploit to come up.
TAS = Tool Assisted Speedrun
Means that they used various tools to make the run as close to perfect as possible. Save states, slowing the game down, programming inputs, etc. Basically anything goes. TAS runs are often impossible for humans to compare to since they can put out more inputs than a human can, and more precisely.
This is one of those rare occasions where someone has tied, and is now just 4 frames behind, what is considered "the perfect run" for the category.
Wow! This is the first time I've seen this new 4-2 strat where he increases his X position for the wrong-warp by doing a backwards walljump on the pipe. That's incredible!
For anyone who wants a bit of context, this is a world record speedrun for Super Mario Bros, which is often considered one of the most optimized runs in all of speedrunning. Incredibly skilled players have been playing this game constantly, like thousands of hours times hundreds of people, for decades trying to shave off a third of a second. Time after time, hundreds of new tricks have been discovered that shave fractions of seconds off the run's time — if perfectly executed. To perfectly execute these runs some button presses need to be timed to the sixtieth of a second, and there's several of them in this run.
If anyone's interested in this and has an hour or so to watch videos, I recommend Summoning Salt's videos about Super mario bros world record history in general, and specifically, 4-2: The history of super mario bros.' most infamous level.
This is an absolutely ridiculous run. There are a couple of "TAS-matching" runs out there, but most of them are really silly things like the Clue game where you just mash "accuse" as fast as you can until the RNG gives you an instant win. This is a "real" run that people have been working on for years, and it's now borderline-perfect.
Some commentary in text: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/09/record-breaking-super-mario-bros-speedrun-approaches-robotic-perfection/