28 votes

Fortress Europe isn’t working – Europe needs a workable migration strategy. Instead it’s attacking asylum seekers to placate the right.

9 comments

  1. FarraigePlaisteach
    Link
    In 2019 the EU Parliament voted against resuming search and rescue for migrants making hazardous journeys https://www.thejournal.ie/what-led-to-the-2019-fine-gael-migration-vote-5554489-Oct2021/...

    In 2019 the EU Parliament voted against resuming search and rescue for migrants making hazardous journeys https://www.thejournal.ie/what-led-to-the-2019-fine-gael-migration-vote-5554489-Oct2021/

    Despite listening to some politicians who voted against resuming the searches, I still don’t understand. Some have downplayed the significance of the vote since it wasn’t legally binding at that stage. Others have countered that if politicians genuinely had issues with certain details (which is their defence for voting this way), the norm is to table an amendment rather than an outright rejection.

    9 votes
  2. bushbear
    Link
    https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455478/how-migration-really-works-by-haas-hein-de/9780241632208 I recently read this book on the topic because it's something that interests me and I'm a migrant....

    https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455478/how-migration-really-works-by-haas-hein-de/9780241632208

    I recently read this book on the topic because it's something that interests me and I'm a migrant. It's a really good book that answers a lot of questions as well as confirmed some ideas I have on the subject.

    I think the migration issue is purposely left open so that politicians can have an "other" to point at and use to pass more restrictive laws. I'm not an expert when it comes to this but if you dig down to the core of the topic then we are dealing with people. We should try to be kind and understanding to them and help where we can because the politicians won't.

    if you are interested in this topic then check out collective aid, refugee Community kitchen, no name kitchen, utopia 56 and no border paramedics. These organisations have more information and volunteer opportunities.

    8 votes
  3. [6]
    OrangeCorvus
    Link
    I think a good middle-ground would be by making it harder for the undocumented migrants to be accepted and get any status. This way we would discourage people getting in a boat or trying to...

    I think a good middle-ground would be by making it harder for the undocumented migrants to be accepted and get any status. This way we would discourage people getting in a boat or trying to illegally enter EU because they would know there is an almost 99% chance they will be declined and sent back.

    At the same time we should be relaxing the normal migration policies for people that want to come work and integrate into the adopting society.

    Maybe this would please the left and the right.

    7 votes
    1. [4]
      ignorabimus
      Link Parent
      I genuinely don't think you can deter people from making the crossing. If you want to deter people fleeing the Taliban or Bashir al-Assad's regime then you probably have to be brutal on a similar...

      I genuinely don't think you can deter people from making the crossing. If you want to deter people fleeing the Taliban or Bashir al-Assad's regime then you probably have to be brutal on a similar level. To some extent the EU is doing this, for example by funding Libya, Tunisia and Egypt to torture (I mean literally) migrants and by using Frontex to carry out pushbacks where migrant boats often overturn and the people drown.

      This totally undermines the EU's messaging on human rights which is a key part of its self-identity. This messaging becomes pretty hollow when you're overturning boats in the Meditteranean Sea and paying someone to torture refugees for you. I know Europeans like to feel they're better than the Americans because the Americans are "more racist" and have done things like Guantanamo bay, but really how is their treatment of migrants any different?

      Usually critics here say "they aren't refugees, they are economic migrants". I think there are enough refugees who want to come that even if you are able to deter all the economic migrants there will still be a large number of people who want to come. Even if that isn't true, the economic migrants are often coming from incredibly poor places which are also very dangerous (for example people in Africa who don't have access to clean water or enough food) and therefore you have to be sufficiently brutal to make people think it's worse to come than to stay in a place with low life expectancy, absence of food, etc.

      10 votes
      1. [3]
        OrangeCorvus
        Link Parent
        I'm not going to comment the funding part because I have no knowledge of it. I all for helping people that really flee from war or people that are oppressed by their regime. I can also sympathize...

        I'm not going to comment the funding part because I have no knowledge of it. I all for helping people that really flee from war or people that are oppressed by their regime. I can also sympathize with people wanting a better life, we don't get to choose where we are born but I don't agree with taking a boat and throwing your passport away.

        However I think your point about EU is unfair, what should, we do take everybody that comes? What do we do with our current citizens? We can't move Africa and parts of Asia to the EU. We should get people that want to integrate and not turn our society into what they had back home because that's why they came in the first place.

        5 votes
        1. ignorabimus
          Link Parent
          Obvious things: stop destabilising countries in Africa. For example here's a series of pretty damning comments from the EU's chief diplomat about the failure of EU 'strategy' in the Sahel where...

          However I think your point about EU is unfair, what should, we do

          Obvious things:

          The other thing about "we should get people that want to integrate" is in my mind kind of bad? I think if you rely on total assimilation your society is kind of an ethnostate. Immigrants tend to have a lot more drive, are often better educated and offer new perspectives on things? In many cases their societal structures for organisation are also worth learning from – for example Taiwan is so far ahead of Europe on technological progress that it's not even funny, and it could be worth trying to work out why they are so much better at it?

          3 votes
        2. oracle
          Link Parent
          Yes, nations should accept as many refugees as they can. What do you mean by "what do we do" with citizens? They will still be around, benefiting from positive net migration. This reeks of racism.

          However I think your point about EU is unfair, what should, we do take everybody that comes? What do we do with our current citizens?

          Yes, nations should accept as many refugees as they can. What do you mean by "what do we do" with citizens? They will still be around, benefiting from positive net migration.

          not turn our society into what they had back home

          This reeks of racism.

          1 vote
    2. snowgoon
      Link Parent
      Considering the far right talks about kicking out any one with too much melanin in their skin. I seriously doubt they will accept such a solution.

      Considering the far right talks about kicking out any one with too much melanin in their skin. I seriously doubt they will accept such a solution.

      6 votes
  4. Tum
    Link
    Here is the press release from the European Commission if you're interested. Also note that Europe plans to work with countries of origin to prevent smugglers from sending people to begin with....

    Here is the press release from the European Commission if you're interested. Also note that Europe plans to work with countries of origin to prevent smugglers from sending people to begin with. This isn't just about dangerous boat crossings.

    1 vote