9 votes

A letter to the citizens of Macedonia from President George W. Bush

8 comments

  1. [3]
    EscReality
    (edited )
    Link
    I have far more respect for the man now than I ever did when he was active as the President. I think he was dealt a very bad hand when he was the president and obviously he didn't necessarily deal...

    I have far more respect for the man now than I ever did when he was active as the President. I think he was dealt a very bad hand when he was the president and obviously he didn't necessarily deal with it in the best way. I have often wondered how is legacy would read if 9/11 would have never happened. I am glad that even ten years after his presidency he still is staying current on world events and helping when he can. It speaks to his character immensely.

    Also I find it profoundly depressing that W, a president with the reputation of having poor skills when it comes to international relations, looks like a skilled and polished diplomat when compared with our current elected leader.

    2 votes
    1. [3]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        EscReality
        Link Parent
        Sure. I never said I was forgiving him for what happened under his presidency and the creation of the surveillance state we now live in. But Bush was not the only person running the nation and...

        Sure.

        I never said I was forgiving him for what happened under his presidency and the creation of the surveillance state we now live in. But Bush was not the only person running the nation and making decisions during his tenure. Not all of the blame lies with him. I think what he has done since his presidency speaks to his character a lot because they are things he is doing of his own volition, not things that are influenced by advisers or the pressures of the presidency.

        I mean, could you picture Trump writing a letter ten years after the fact in an attempt to continue to help a foreign nation? Bush understands that once you are elected president you are president for life, Trump doesn't understand what it means to be president in the first place.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. EscReality
            Link Parent
            But he very clearly is not, Trump has acted like the same childish, immature cretin since the 1980s. Most of his advisers have quit multiple times over because he doesn't listen to them or respect...

            Shouldn't it worry you that you can just as easily say of Trump that he's heavily influenced by advisers and the pressures of the presidency?

            But he very clearly is not, Trump has acted like the same childish, immature cretin since the 1980s. Most of his advisers have quit multiple times over because he doesn't listen to them or respect them. There is a reason he cannot retain cabinet members. He has not changed his demeanor since he has become president, it has just amplified the way he has always acted.

            In contrast, Bush was (and always has been) very professional and shown the mental capacity to be president. W had issues with public speaking that often hurt his credibility, but you can tell that it is not a reflection on his mental acuity. He just looks bad when the president before and after him had stellar oration skills. Not everyone is a good public speaker and not everything W did during his tenure was necessarily bad. If he was not dragged into a global conflict there is a very good chance he would have been a good president. He was presidential and had the capacity to do the job justice.

            That possibility does not exist for Trump, we knew he was going to be a disaster since day one and he has exceeded expectations in that capacity. He will never be worthy of the office he holds, he is not capable.

            mental health issues associated with old age.

            Trump's mental health issues have nothing to do with old age, watch interviews with him from twenty years ago, he has always been like this.

            1 vote
  2. [5]
    nsz
    Link
    Does anybody know the context of the letter, why did he write it now? It's been over 10 years since the summit in Bucharest - the latest even he mentions in the letter.

    Does anybody know the context of the letter, why did he write it now? It's been over 10 years since the summit in Bucharest - the latest even he mentions in the letter.

    2 votes
    1. [4]
      cfabbro
      Link Parent
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_referendum,_2018

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_referendum,_2018

      A referendum will be held in the Republic of Macedonia on 30 September 2018, with voters asked "Do you support EU and NATO membership by accepting the agreement between Macedonia and Greece?"[1][2] It is related to the 27-year long dispute between Macedonia and Greece over the former's name and follows an agreement with Greece on the issue which has prevented the accession of Macedonia to the European Union and NATO.[3] The government has already started a social media campaign about the issue of the referendum.[4]

      Background

      Following Macedonia's independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, successive Greek governments have claimed that the country's name implied territorial claims on Greek Macedonia and have objected to the use of "Macedonia" by the new state. It was admitted to the United Nations in 1993 as "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM)[5], while most countries have recognised the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name.

      Repeated attempts at negotiation for a composite name failed for 27 years. However, in 2018, high-level contacts between the governments of the two countries intensified, with the Macedonian Deputy Prime Minister Bujar Osmani visiting Athens for the name talks on 9 January,[6] and Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev meeting with his Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland on 24 January.[7][8][9] In the Davos meeting, the first of its kind in seven years, there appeared to be some resolution between the two leaders to end the naming dispute and to improve the relations between the two countries. Zaev subsequently agreed to take initiatives that would soothe Greek concerns over Antiquisation policies, while Tsipras agreed to consent to Macedonia's bid to join regional initiatives or agreements.

      On 12 June 2018, Tsipras announced that he had reached an agreement with Zaev "which covers all the preconditions set by the Greek side".[10] The proposal would result in the Republic of Macedonia being renamed the Republic of North Macedonia (Macedonian: Република Северна Македонија, translit. Republika Severna Makedonija), with the new name being used for all purposes.[11] Zaev announced that the deal includes recognition of the Macedonian language in the United Nations and that the citizens of the country will be called, as before, Macedonians. However, there would also be an explicit clarification that the citizens of the country are not related to the ancient Macedonians.[12][13] "The agreement once and for always confirms and strengthens the Macedonian ethnic and cultural identity, the Macedonian language, the Macedonian nationality. It guarantees the security of the country and provides a secure future for the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia", Zaev said.[14] These changes will be put to a referendum for citizens of the Republic of Macedonia in the autumn of 2018. In addition to changing the name of the country, the referendum will remove references to the "Macedonian people" from the constitution which imply an ancient heritage.[15][16] Additionally, the agreement stipulates the removal of the Vergina Sun from public use in the Republic of Macedonia and the formation of a committee for the review of school textbooks and maps in both countries for the removal of irredentist content and to align them with UNESCO and Council of Europe's standards.[17] The agreement was signed at Lake Prespa, a body of water which is divided among Macedonia, Greece and Albania.

      Parliament paved the way for the referendum by ratifying the agreement for a second time early July.[18] After a month long delay by the opposition party VMRO-DPMNE to slow down the referendum preparation by not appointing members to the State Election Commission the parliament has finally agreed end of July on a new composition.[19][20]

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        EscReality
        Link Parent
        Also, he states in his letter; They are voting later this month. He is writing to urge them to vote.

        Also, he states in his letter;

        I urge every citizen of Macedonia to participate in this historic decision and vote in your national referendum later this month. After a decade of setbacks, you have the power to write a new and more hopeful story for you, your children, your neighbors, and your country.

        They are voting later this month. He is writing to urge them to vote.

        4 votes
        1. nsz
          Link Parent
          Ah yeah don't know how I missed that.

          Ah yeah don't know how I missed that.

          2 votes
      2. nsz
        Link Parent
        I had a Greek buddy who was always so easily wound up by mentioning this Macedonian thing, especially when talking about Alexander the Great. I had no idea it was such an important state issue. I...

        Republic of Macedonia being renamed the Republic of North Macedonia

        I had a Greek buddy who was always so easily wound up by mentioning this Macedonian thing, especially when talking about Alexander the Great. I had no idea it was such an important state issue.

        the removal of the Vergina Sun from public use

        I wonder if this will extend to the flag, it's not quite the same but does look like a derivation from the symbol.

        2 votes