8 votes

Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of November 21

This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.

This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.

25 comments

  1. cmccabe
    Link
    Two pro wrestlers developed ‘The Progressive Liberal’ to be the bad guy at matches. Then the atmosphere turned far darker...

    Two pro wrestlers developed ‘The Progressive Liberal’ to be the bad guy at matches. Then the atmosphere turned far darker
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/politics/political-tensions-wrestling/index.html

    I'm not sure there is anything new, surprising or insightful about this article but it is an interesting perspective on the political polarization in the US, particularly the "owning the libs" mindset.

    4 votes
  2. PantsEnvy
    Link
    The incredible shrinking future of college In four years, the number of students graduating from high schools across the country will begin a sudden and precipitous decline, due to a rolling...

    The incredible shrinking future of college

    In four years, the number of students graduating from high schools across the country will begin a sudden and precipitous decline, due to a rolling demographic aftershock of the Great Recession.

    3 votes
  3. [17]
    PantsEnvy
    Link
    The US Treasury Yield Curve Recession Indicator is Flashing Red The yield curve has inverted. Credible economists predict a recession in 18 months. Credible economists also pooh pooh the...

    The US Treasury Yield Curve Recession Indicator is Flashing Red

    The yield curve has inverted. Credible economists predict a recession in 18 months. Credible economists also pooh pooh the predictive power of the yield curve, but no one is making light of the Fed's stance that they will hike rates until people feel the pain, unemployment goes up, and inflation is under control.

    3 votes
    1. [16]
      FrankGrimes
      Link Parent
      So, I keep seeing more and more on inflation, and part of it's cause simply being corporate greed. But I haven't seen anything from the Fed, White House, or the major new outlets reporting on it....

      So, I keep seeing more and more on inflation, and part of it's cause simply being corporate greed. But I haven't seen anything from the Fed, White House, or the major new outlets reporting on it. It's hard to ignore, but I'm unsure of what's actually going on with it.

      2 votes
      1. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        It was a major talking point of the Democrats this midterm, and was reported on by a bunch of major outlets because of that. And even up here in Canada it has been an ongoing topic in most...

        But I haven't seen... the major new outlets reporting on it

        It was a major talking point of the Democrats this midterm, and was reported on by a bunch of major outlets because of that. And even up here in Canada it has been an ongoing topic in most Canadian newspapers as well due to accusations of grocery store profiteering and price gouging. E.g. NYT article on it: Is ‘Greedflation’ Rewriting Economics, or Do Old Rules Still Apply?

        Just google "greedflation" for more.

        3 votes
      2. [14]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Here's a speech on the Federal Reserve website where a member of the Federal Reserve board talks about what they're doing.

        Here's a speech on the Federal Reserve website where a member of the Federal Reserve board talks about what they're doing.

        3 votes
        1. [13]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          Yep. "We need people to take whatever work they can get, or their income might rise faster than inflation" - The Fed, basically. This is the core issue. The government explicitly works to keep...
          • Exemplary

          Yep.

          Our goal is to rein in demand, bringing demand and supply into better balance, which will help reduce upward pressure on inflation.

          One sector where improving this balance will be crucial is the labor market. Even as economic output has slowed, the labor market remains very tight. While there was roughly one job vacancy for every job seeker in what was a strong labor market before the pandemic, now there are almost two jobs for every person looking for work. Wages have been rising more quickly than they have in decades, much faster than productivity growth plus 2 percentage points that I think of as consistent with the FOMC's 2 percent inflation objective. But I do see tentative signs of some cooling in the labor market, which is vital to keep rising labor costs from putting upward pressure on inflation.

          "We need people to take whatever work they can get, or their income might rise faster than inflation" - The Fed, basically.

          This is the core issue. The government explicitly works to keep wage growth from outpacing inflation. It doesn't matter that real incomes have dropped over time regardless of increasing profitability; those gains won't be allowed to go to the working class people who make those profits possible. Workers are no longer willing to stay in jobs that don't pay enough, and so there's much less of the wage stickiness that made it possible for prices to rise without workers demanding corresponding increases in pay or leaving for better paying pastures. As such, the Fed is stepping in to make sure that businesses can have cheap labor to hold on to their 50-year record high profits.

          9 votes
          1. PantsEnvy
            Link Parent
            That might be true for the last year, but the opposite is true since the 80's onwards....

            Wages have been rising more quickly than they have in decades, much faster than productivity growth plus 2 percentage points that I think of as consistent with the FOMC's 2 percent inflation objective.

            That might be true for the last year, but the opposite is true since the 80's onwards.

            https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/economic-synopses/2016/08/12/labor-compensation-and-labor-productivity-recent-recoveries-and-the-long-term-trend/

            Productivity has been significantly outpacing wages for a very long time.

            https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2011/ted_20110224.htm

            I think we are at a point where wealth inequality exceed that prior to the great depression. It makes you wonder how long such a thing can continue for...

            6 votes
          2. [11]
            skybrian
            Link Parent
            It's worth bearing in mind that at a crude macroeconomic level, more money (a higher income) needs to be backed by more supply (things to buy). That's called "an increase in productivity." No...

            It's worth bearing in mind that at a crude macroeconomic level, more money (a higher income) needs to be backed by more supply (things to buy). That's called "an increase in productivity." No amount of financial gimmickry is going to do it unless there is actually more stuff per worker.

            Unfortunately, the Fed doesn't actually have any control over whether productivity goes up or whether inequality goes down. They can't make more oil appear, fix COVID in China, or make more low-cost housing appear in high-priced areas.

            Raising interest rates to get cheap money under control is a really blunt instrument, but that's what they have.

            1 vote
            1. [7]
              MimicSquid
              Link Parent
              You're right that the Fed, by itself, only has a couple of crude tools. But it's not the entirety of the government, and to absolve the whole machine as powerless because one tool could not, on...

              You're right that the Fed, by itself, only has a couple of crude tools. But it's not the entirety of the government, and to absolve the whole machine as powerless because one tool could not, on its own, fix the problem, is to pretend that this economy isn't the way that it is because a set of powerful people chose to have it this way.

              4 votes
              1. [6]
                skybrian
                Link Parent
                Yes, in theory, a government could do better. But power struggles often have results that neither side would choose on their own, so it doesn't seem quite right to say the people involved chose to...

                Yes, in theory, a government could do better. But power struggles often have results that neither side would choose on their own, so it doesn't seem quite right to say the people involved chose to have whatever stalemate or messy compromise they came up with over some more ideal situation that was never politically possible. Their choices tend to be more limited.

                2 votes
                1. [5]
                  MimicSquid
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  Given that the both the Democrats and the Republicans are functionally pro-business parties, I'm skeptical about your framing of this as state of affairs that's the result of a deadlock between...

                  Given that the both the Democrats and the Republicans are functionally pro-business parties, I'm skeptical about your framing of this as state of affairs that's the result of a deadlock between the parties as opposed to a sustained trendline regardless of which party has been in power. Democrats support somewhat more in the way of social services, but as a party still support capital over workers in many cases.

                  4 votes
                  1. [2]
                    PantsEnvy
                    Link Parent
                    That is a very interesting view point. How did you come to this conclusion? Did you happen to spend significant time outside of the USA? Is it related to your experiences as a professional book...

                    That is a very interesting view point. How did you come to this conclusion? Did you happen to spend significant time outside of the USA? Is it related to your experiences as a professional book keeper?

                    1 vote
                    1. MimicSquid
                      Link Parent
                      I haven't spent significant time outside the USA, but my experience working with a wide variety of businesses and helping them with their interactions with other entities has given me some...
                      • Exemplary

                      I haven't spent significant time outside the USA, but my experience working with a wide variety of businesses and helping them with their interactions with other entities has given me some perspective into how government works (and doesn't work) with and for various entities, both citizens and incorporated entities.

                      I do live in the SF Bay Area, so my experience of politicians in government at the local and state level are almost universally Democrats. But for all the culture war stuff that dominates the national conversation, a lot of what I see locally are practical concerns: Jobs, Housing, Stores, and Schools. Three of those (three and a half now that there's so many charter schools) are dependent on the government using indirect levers of taxation and regulation to encourage private industry to provide the desired goods and services to their citizens. If you run for Mayor and you say "I'm going to nationalize everything!" or even "All industry must be locally owned!" not only will you get sued into the ground by businesses who can rely on national or state law to protect them, everyone who has anything to lose will bail. And you and everyone else knows that. The same is true-ish at the state level, though California is a big enough market that people will pay the higher costs in taxes and regulations in order to access so many citizens that they want to sell things to.

                      Even California, one of the largest economies in the world, is that way because of private industry. The state budget for 2021 was $163.5 billion, smaller than Alphabet at $282.113B, and the total state economy was $3.37 trillion. The state government has power not because it's rich, but because there's the implicit violence of the laws of the USA behind it and the consequences for breaking them. For all that some people complain about how overbearing the government is, as a sector of the economy it's not all that big. California had a total workforce of 19,279,500 in October, and 89,395 state employees. Outside of the most core things the government can't contract out, most government services are indeed contracted out to private companies.

                      Because we work within a fairly laissez faire economic system, even the people who argue for more government influence are pretty mild about it. You know the real big scandalous thing that the Democrats did for Medicare? The ability to actually use their purchasing power as a huge buyer to negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical companies. Not even to do anything aggressive, just negotiate like any other business might. In California, where they're fairly on the cutting edge just by providing medical care for many poorer people somewhat cheaply, they're not providing services, they're just paying a private company to do it. These are very very milquetoast changes, and are still too radical for some Democrats.

                      Essentially, both Democrats and Republicans are pro-business because our economy is structured in such a way that they have to be. Government is pretty slim at every level, and everyone depends on private industry to make and serve everything. It's like saying that fish are wet. They can swim to the left or swim to the right, but they're still swimming in the same water. This isn't even getting into election funding, which is a whole 'nother (pardon me) kettle of fish.

                      10 votes
                  2. [2]
                    skybrian
                    Link Parent
                    If you think of political fights as "capital" versus "workers" then you miss a lot of what's going on. For example, homeowners don't clearly fit that frame. Which side of NIMBY versus YIMBY is...

                    If you think of political fights as "capital" versus "workers" then you miss a lot of what's going on. For example, homeowners don't clearly fit that frame. Which side of NIMBY versus YIMBY is business? Which side is workers?

                    1 vote
                    1. MimicSquid
                      Link Parent
                      Not all political fights are so easily delineated, and I certainly didn't claim that it's always so straightforward. In our area the housing fight is mostly the working class (because housing is...

                      Not all political fights are so easily delineated, and I certainly didn't claim that it's always so straightforward. In our area the housing fight is mostly the working class (because housing is expensive) and big business (because building housing could be profitable) fighting the upper middle class (because they benefit from the status quo.) Different allies for different fights, eh?

                      4 votes
            2. [3]
              PantsEnvy
              Link Parent
              What you are talking about is a classic wage inflation spiral. Due to inflationary fears, wages go up without a productivity increase, so prices of things go up, so wages go up even more... I...

              What you are talking about is a classic wage inflation spiral. Due to inflationary fears, wages go up without a productivity increase, so prices of things go up, so wages go up even more...

              I think we have a different problem.

              now there are almost two jobs for every person looking for work

              It's not a classic price inflation/ wage inflation spiral. The fed knows how to fix that. You recess the economy.

              This is something else. The boomers aren't coming back to work. Immigration is down. Employers know that if there were more workers, more stuff would be made. But there aren't enough workers. So companies, which are flush with cash from PPP loans, are forced to spend more to recruit. Except today, with the declining population rates, more money (higher wages) does not get you more supply (more workers.) And the ultimate rise in wages could cause a wage inflation spiral.

              The government could attempt to remedy the problem. They could increase the supply of workers via immigration. They could increase productivity via invest in infrastructure and technological automation. Like you point out. That seems unlikely.

              The fed can also attempt to remedy the situation. They can recess the economy. Except recessing the economy is not going to fix the underlying problem. Eventually the fed will need to boost the economy to meet their dual mandate, which gets them right back to where they started.

              Or the fed could redefine a reasonable rate of inflation from 2% to something like 2.5% or 3%. Inflation is nasty if it gets out of control. But what's nice about a higher rate of expected inflation is that it lowers the total cost of debt (which is substantial right now) and it potentially allows for increase wealth distribution where workers see a greater share of the economic pie.

              The original law called for inflation under 3%.

              In 2008, the fed moved the inflation target from 1.5% to 2%.

              A higher inflation rate benefits people who have loans with fixed interest rates (the government, almost anyone with a mortgage, practically anyone except owners of capital.)

              Which is a really long winded way of saying that I think you are wrong. The fed can do something about inequality. But chooses not to.

              4 votes
              1. [2]
                skybrian
                Link Parent
                Inflation is much higher than either target, so I don't see why it currently matters which target they have. If the target were different, how would interest rates be different? Maybe the target...

                Inflation is much higher than either target, so I don't see why it currently matters which target they have. If the target were different, how would interest rates be different?

                Maybe the target will matter later, though, if they succeed in lowering inflation somewhat.

                1 vote
                1. PantsEnvy
                  Link Parent
                  Exactly. In 1999, the presumption was that low rates help in the short term, but in the long term low inflation helps the most. Romer and Romer (1998) Since 1999, the number of countries that...

                  Exactly.

                  In 1999, the presumption was that low rates help in the short term, but in the long term low inflation helps the most.

                  First, our analysis suggests that the usual emphasis on the short-run effects of monetary policy on poverty is fundamentally misguided. It is certainly true that expansionary policy can generate a boom and reduce poverty temporarily. But the effect is unquestionably just that —temporary. Monetary policy cannot generate a permanent boom. When output returns to the natural rate, poverty will return to its initial level. Moreover, the cost of such a boom is that inflation is permanently higher. If the higher inflation creates a consensus for tight policy to reduce inflation, the resultant rise in unemployment leads to a rise in poverty that offsets even the temporary reduction generated by the boom.

                  Second, the cross-country relationship between monetary policy and poverty suggests that monetary policy that aims at low inflation and stable aggregate demand is the most likely to result in genuinely improved conditions for the poor in the long run.

                  Romer and Romer (1998)

                  Since 1999, the number of countries that implemented Inflation Targeting tripled, largely targeting lower inflation creating a contractionary monetary policy in the short term. (see Table 1 Altunbaş and Thornton)

                  Most of the countries implemented a target of 2-3%, largely following New Zealand's lead, which made inequality worse.

                  IT [Inflation Targeting] adoption has been associated with a worsening of income distribution measured by the Gini coefficient and a decline in the labor share of national income relative to the profits share

                  Altunbaş and Thornton (2022)

                  Yet even back in 2001, there was evidence that a target of 2% inflation would worsen income inequality.

                  we found evidence in favour of a U-shaped long-run relationship between inflation and inequality, with the estimated minimum in inequality around 6 per cent inflation in the United States, and around 12 per cent in the OECD countries. In the case of the United States, where data are available also on the quintiles income shares, the increase in inequality below 6 per cent inflation arises from the richest quintile gaining income share at the expenses of the rest of the distribution.

                  Galli and von der Hoeven (2001)

                  So basically, the reserve banks of the world proceeded to implement absurdly low inflation targeting, perhaps as a natural reaction to the 80's style inflation, but knowing full well this could worsen income inequality

                  Inflation targeting has become a popular regime among central bankers around the world. Indeed, since New Zealand first adopted this regime, a number of advanced and emerging economies have followed suit. Mainstream authors often conclude that inflation targeting has been a success, although they measure the performance of inflation targeting almost exclusively in terms of rates of inflation. In other words, there is a general consensus that inflation targeting regimes have led to lower inflation rates and “inflation convergence” among countries.

                  Despite this apparent consensus, there is some interesting dissent among the mainstream. While these critics never doubt the rationale for fighting inflation, they do not consider the inflation targeting strategy as a beneficial monetary regime. In particular, they believe that it unnecessarily restricts central bank policy. Moreover, some critics openly question whether inflation targeting did really contribute to lowering inflation rates. Indeed, as has been advocated by mainstream and non-mainstream economists alike, inflation rates were already on the decline at the time of adoption of inflation targeting strategies.

                  The main focus of this paper, however, is on the real effects of inflation targeting. Indeed, while Bernanke et al. (1999, p. 258) concluded that the sacrifice ratio is often higher after adoption of an inflation targeting regime, we conclude that this result can be attributed to the fact that income distribution worsened for wage earners after the adoption of inflation targeting, which can give rise to a substantial drop in effective demand with the observed negative effects on output and employment as measured by sacrifice ratios.

                  Rochon and Rossi (2006)

                  Perhaps reserve banks naively thought government would step in

                  Because the impact of monetary policy on inequality through the asset and interest rate channels is
                  weak and uncertain, concerns about inequality do not support changes to current monetary policy
                  objectives of price stability and, in some cases, full employment. Fiscal and social policies, including progressive taxation and social welfare and equitable access to education, are better placed to address inequality

                  O’Farrell, Rawdanowicz, and Inaba (2016)

                  Sadly, when governments step in, they typically only increase income inequality....

                  Specifically, the coefficients on IT indicate that an inflation target is associated with an increase in the Gini measure of inequality of between 3.6 and 7.6 percentage points. Of the other explanatory variables, only the growth of real GDP appears to reduce income inequality. In contrast, the financial crisis, trade and capital account openness and, perhaps surprisingly, more representative governments and government consumption expenditure appear to promote greater income inequality. In the latter case, government consumption spending may be a poor proxy for social spending aimed at reducing income inequalities, but it may also indicate that much of the spending on transfers is captured by the middle class

                  Altunbaş and Thornton (2022)

                  5 votes
  4. cmccabe
    Link
    Let the circus continue! Kanye West announces 2024 presidential bid https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63754702 I saw (didn’t read) and failed to save an article recently about situations...

    Let the circus continue!

    Kanye West announces 2024 presidential bid
    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63754702

    I saw (didn’t read) and failed to save an article recently about situations where someone is talented and successful in one field and then use their celebrity to push their way into other fields where they have absolutely no skill. The article used Kayne as an example. If anyone here knows that article, can you help find the link?

    3 votes
  5. [2]
    PantsEnvy
    Link
    The Fed's own economists are sounding the recession alarm — and warning that more interest-rate hikes could tank the US economy

    The Fed's own economists are sounding the recession alarm — and warning that more interest-rate hikes could tank the US economy

    The Federal Reserve's staff economists said there's a major risk of a US recession next year.

    The economists join a long line of experts warning the US is headed for a painful downturn.

    2 votes
    1. PantsEnvy
      Link Parent
      It's not just USA's federal reserve that is fearing the pain Westpac NZ's Michael Gordon expecting OCR cuts from early 2024 given RBNZ forecast for GFC-style downturn Adrian Orr apologises for...

      It's not just USA's federal reserve that is fearing the pain

      Westpac NZ's Michael Gordon expecting OCR cuts from early 2024 given RBNZ forecast for GFC-style downturn

      The Reserve Bank is both forecasting an economic downturn on a similar scale to that of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) and expecting wage and price inflation to remain stubbornly high for some time, Westpac New Zealand Acting Chief Economist Michael Gordon says.

      Adrian Orr apologises for 'significant economic shocks', accepts RBNZ engineering recession

      The Reserve Bank says it is trying to engineer a recession to bring down high inflation.

      The central bank delivered a record 75-basis point interest rate hike yesterday, taking the official cash rate to its highest level in 14 years, to 4.25 percent.

      It has also forecast a shallow recession from the middle of next year, partly because of the higher interest rates it is imposing.

      Annual inflation is near a 30-year high at 7.2 percent.

      2 votes
  6. [2]
    PantsEnvy
    Link
    Republicans are split between DeSantis and Trump - but they still love Trump. Biden is currently less popular as a President than Trump within the USA. Overall Bidens disapproval has been dropping...

    Republicans are split between DeSantis and Trump - but they still love Trump. Biden is currently less popular as a President than Trump within the USA.

    Overall Bidens disapproval has been dropping both within the USA and internationally although Trump is the less popular president internationally.

    1 vote
    1. FrankGrimes
      Link Parent
      I wonder if inflation trends down and we avoid a bad recession, if his approvals get better. I mean, in my opinion, he's done a great job - got some good legislation passed, and has seemed to...

      I wonder if inflation trends down and we avoid a bad recession, if his approvals get better. I mean, in my opinion, he's done a great job - got some good legislation passed, and has seemed to manage to walk the line of compromise between the left wing, and more moderate Democrats. I suppose people just don't want compromise anymore though? I'm not sure what else would cause him to be so unpopular.

      4 votes