20 votes

Dallas officer facing manslaughter count in shooting death of her neighbor

19 comments

  1. [5]
    trojanhorse
    Link
    I have been following this story and it just seems so hard to swallow. Even if she did walk into the wrong apartment and not realize it wasn't hers there still had to be an interaction. I mean she...

    I have been following this story and it just seems so hard to swallow. Even if she did walk into the wrong apartment and not realize it wasn't hers there still had to be an interaction. I mean she didn't just pull her gun and shoot him before he had a chance to say something. She was about to kill a person and didn't stop long enough to hear the man out? She just started firing even when he most likely protested / said something to let her know to take a second and think. Something isn't adding up. She's probably just covering her self.. There is more to this story.

    Last year, Guyger shot and wounded a man named Uvaldo Perez while she was on duty after he wrested her Taser away during a struggle. Guyger was not charged in connection with that shooting.

    This lady just seems like someone covering her ass again and again.

    12 votes
    1. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. Deimos
        Link Parent
        I see you decided to "bleep" it anyway, but I think it's fine. The context it's being used in is what's important.

        I see you decided to "bleep" it anyway, but I think it's fine. The context it's being used in is what's important.

        10 votes
      2. trojanhorse
        Link Parent
        Yeah I saw people talking about that joke. I'd actually seen it again not too long ago before this happened to so it was fresh on my mind. This is ridiculous because there is definitely more to...

        Yeah I saw people talking about that joke. I'd actually seen it again not too long ago before this happened to so it was fresh on my mind. This is ridiculous because there is definitely more to the story.

        2 votes
      3. NessY
        Link Parent
        From the coverage I've seen on it, she came home after a 15 hour shift and went to unlock the door. She realized it was unlocked and got suspicious that someone was waiting for her. Drew her gun...

        How do you mistake someone else's place for your own when all their stuff is in it and none of yours?

        From the coverage I've seen on it, she came home after a 15 hour shift and went to unlock the door. She realized it was unlocked and got suspicious that someone was waiting for her. Drew her gun and as she pushed open the door and saw a figure across a dark room. It's the same # apartment on the floor above, everything is exactly the same layout. The room was dark and she was occupied with the person. She's not looking at pictures and depending the entrance area who knows how much furniture or anything you can see from the well lit hallway looking into a dark room.

        Obviously in hindsight the door unlocked should make you look around if you're in the right place, but to a cop you may suspect something more sinister. They opened the door and saw what they thought to be someone standing in their home with the lights off.

        Personally, I feel like I would say something and if you felt in danger try to retreat to a strategic position while calling for backup, but after 15 hours on the job and who knows what it looked like the person was doing. She reacted. Obviously the wrong reaction with hindsight but it's much more understandable than someone just barging into the wrong house and shooting someone.

        2 votes
    2. lmn
      Link Parent
      I've thought about this too, but I don't see how there's a different explanation. She was trying to murder this guy specifically? There's got to be a better way than this. There are even better...

      I've thought about this too, but I don't see how there's a different explanation. She was trying to murder this guy specifically? There's got to be a better way than this. There are even better lies. She could've banged herself up and claimed he dragged her into his apartment.

      I just can't think of a reason, other than the crazy "I didn't notice it was my apartment and immediately shot him on sight" which is her story. Maybe she was intoxicated? Maybe she's crazy?

      1 vote
  2. [4]
    dubteedub
    Link
    https://apnews.com/25044e46567e4f6591d5c30a612cc64a I don't know about you guys, but I am not likely to listen to someone yelling commands at me when they break into my own home. The officers...

    The affidavit says Guyger mistook Jean’s apartment for hers and that his front door was ajar when she entered. She also told investigators that she shot Jean after he refused her verbal commands.

    https://apnews.com/25044e46567e4f6591d5c30a612cc64a

    I don't know about you guys, but I am not likely to listen to someone yelling commands at me when they break into my own home.

    The officers claims are also being contradicted by two witness testimonies

    An attorney for Jean’s family, Lee Merritt, said at a news conference Monday evening that two independent witnesses have told him they heard knocking on the door in the hallway before the shooting.

    He said one witness reported hearing a woman’s voice saying, “Let me in! Let me in!” Then they heard gunshots, after which one witness said she heard a man’s voice say, “Oh my God! Why did you do that?”

    I also can't believe this woman was allowed to murder a man in cold blood and then let out on an incredibly low bond to sleep back in her own bed that night.

    7 votes
    1. [3]
      NessY
      Link Parent
      Is 300k a low bond?

      an incredibly low bond

      Is 300k a low bond?

      1. [2]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        Bail =/= bond If you're bail is $300,000, then you have to pay that full amount to get out of jail. But if you show up to court then you get your money back. Bond is different. A bond company...

        Bail =/= bond

        If you're bail is $300,000, then you have to pay that full amount to get out of jail. But if you show up to court then you get your money back.

        Bond is different. A bond company agrees to cover your bail and takes a fee, usually 10%. If you show up to court, you do not get any money back. If you do not show up, then the bond company comes for your ass because they are on the hook for the bail cost.

        In this instance, the police officer that murdered Botham Jean had a bail set at just $300,000, meaning she only had to pay $30,000 to get out of jail.

        For comparison, most murder charges get remand, so you don't even get an option of bail, or if they do get bail, its normally $500,000 - $1,000,000.

        1. NessY
          Link Parent
          I mean 30k still seems like a lot of money to me, but I was legitimately asking what normal level is set at for a negligent homicide or manslaughter case.

          I mean 30k still seems like a lot of money to me, but I was legitimately asking what normal level is set at for a negligent homicide or manslaughter case.

  3. [5]
    Eva
    Link
    Cops gonna cop. She wasn't drunk, dated the guy, disliked the guy, shot the guy. More than likely going to get off easier than any civilian would in her place. There's no reasonable reason that...

    Cops gonna cop. She wasn't drunk, dated the guy, disliked the guy, shot the guy. More than likely going to get off easier than any civilian would in her place.

    There's no reasonable reason that she wouldn't have a murder charge; this case doesn't fit one for manslaughter at all.

    6 votes
    1. [4]
      spit-evil-olive-tips
      Link Parent
      Do you have a source for her having dated the victim in the past? Everything I've read has been that it was purely coincidental because their apartments are in the same place one floor apart.

      She wasn't drunk, dated the guy, disliked the guy, shot the guy.

      Do you have a source for her having dated the victim in the past? Everything I've read has been that it was purely coincidental because their apartments are in the same place one floor apart.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        Eva
        Link Parent
        I believe I heard it on WBZ last night or the night before, so I don't, sorry. Maybe somewhere in a radio archive.

        I believe I heard it on WBZ last night or the night before, so I don't, sorry. Maybe somewhere in a radio archive.

        4 votes
        1. [2]
          spit-evil-olive-tips
          Link Parent
          I try not to drag arguments from thread to thread...but less than 24 hours ago in a different discussion you and I had you were talking about how important it is to you to have academic rigor in...

          I try not to drag arguments from thread to thread...but less than 24 hours ago in a different discussion you and I had you were talking about how important it is to you to have academic rigor in statistics.

          And now in a different context you're repeating something as fact that you think you maybe heard on the radio once. And which as far as I can tell is completely unsubstantiated in any way (a quick Google for "amber guyger dated" turned up two random sources saying it was false, but not particularly authoritative ones, and no sources claiming it to be true).

          12 votes
          1. Eva
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Nah, something I heard on the radio. I'm just unsure of which station. And given that this wasn't a statistical discussion, and I wasn't talking about statistics (of which there are a lot you can...

            Nah, something I heard on the radio. I'm just unsure of which station.

            And given that this wasn't a statistical discussion, and I wasn't talking about statistics (of which there are a lot you can bring up when it comes to cops) in this discussion, there's no reason that that in particular would be relevant.

            I don't believe I quoted a statistic; rather a bit on a developing news story.

            EDIT: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/statistic

            Nope, under no definition does it seem to constitute of a statistic; perhaps a bit of a...

            https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rumor

            Rumor, accidentally, but certainly not a statistic.

            This situation would probably be more apt for saying something about journalistic standards during developing news stories, but then again it's a discussion site rather than a newsroom, and my comment was outside of an article, so really it depends on your viewpoint, there.

            2 votes
  4. [5]
    Ellimist
    Link
    I don't think there is anything more to this story than a tragic mistake. I live in Texas, not far from Dallas itself. The idea of "defending your castle" is deeply ingrained in a lot of people....

    I don't think there is anything more to this story than a tragic mistake. I live in Texas, not far from Dallas itself. The idea of "defending your castle" is deeply ingrained in a lot of people. Both the officer and the man who lived at the apartment thought someone was breaking into their home and reacted. The officer just happened to be home.

    Its tragic, and the officer is rightly being charged, but I'm not certain there's anything more to it than being a tragedy.

    This CNN article https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-arrest/index.html says that the officer and victim lived in the same complex, with the officer living below the victim. Coming off work, she might've been tired and didn't realize she was one floor higher than she should've been. The article also states that the officer reported the door being slightly ajar. If she believed that she was in the right place, she might've thought that the victim had broken into her apartment. And the victim, probably thinking the same thing as the officer, that someone was breaking into his apartment, most likely would've reacted similarly to the officer. The main difference was the officer was armed, the victim wasn't.

    As a 911 dispatcher, I can speak anecdotally that people go to the wrong apartment or house all the time. We get calls from frightened citizens reporting someone trying to get into their home. Officers get out there and, most of the time, find out that the "burglar" was simply too drunk to realize they were at the wrong place.

    And being tired can often have the same effects as being drunk on a persons mental faculties.

    4 votes
    1. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [3]
        Ellimist
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        It's a big assumption that it's a straight up lie. Witnesses are simultaneously some of the most and least reliable sources of information.

        It's a big assumption that it's a straight up lie. Witnesses are simultaneously some of the most and least reliable sources of information.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          dubteedub
          Link Parent
          Why would her keys have been jammed into his door lock if the door was ajar?

          Why would her keys have been jammed into his door lock if the door was ajar?

          6 votes
          1. Archimedes
            Link Parent
            Also, unlike an interior door, leaving the exterior door to an apartment ajar is not a common practice (though it's certainly possible it happened that way).

            Also, unlike an interior door, leaving the exterior door to an apartment ajar is not a common practice (though it's certainly possible it happened that way).

            2 votes
    2. NessY
      Link Parent
      I think this is true, sadly the real story comes from the differences between an officer doing this and literally anyone else. We have yet to see how this whole thing plays out, but if historical...

      I don't think there is anything more to this story than a tragic mistake.

      I think this is true, sadly the real story comes from the differences between an officer doing this and literally anyone else. We have yet to see how this whole thing plays out, but if historical context is any indicator she will not spend time in prison. Which is really incredible for someone who killed a person.

      1 vote