15 votes

Ex-NATO commander: Allies wondering if Trump was blackmailed to pull troops out of Syria

15 comments

  1. [11]
    Algernon_Asimov Link
    Ah. The desperate search for a logical or strategic reason for a decision which was not based in logic or strategy: "No sane person would do this without a good reason. We can't see a good reason,...

    People around the world are asking this and some of our friends and allies in the Middle East are asking, did Erdogan blackmail the president? Was there a payoff or something? Why would a guy make a decision like this? Because all the recommendations were against it.

    Ah. The desperate search for a logical or strategic reason for a decision which was not based in logic or strategy: "No sane person would do this without a good reason. We can't see a good reason, so we'll have to imagine one!"

    Sorry, people, but that's not how Trump's mind works. There is nothing hidden, no secrets, no ulterior motives. What you see is, sadly, what you get.

    He does have a reason for this decision, and he's told us what it is - even if most other people don't think it's a good reason. He doesn't think the USA should send its troops to foreign wars. He said this and he meant it. It really is that simple. There's no need to conjure up some behind-the-scenes conspiracy when the explanation is lying there in plain sight.

    Also, his good mate Erdogan told him he'll take care of it!

    13 votes
    1. [6]
      nic Link Parent
      The question is valid. Why did he platform on USA not sending its troops to foreign wars? It's a risky move for any republican. Trump has refused any form of transparency with his tax returns. He...

      The question is valid.

      Why did he platform on USA not sending its troops to foreign wars?

      It's a risky move for any republican.

      Trump has refused any form of transparency with his tax returns.

      He has also refused to sell his business and put his investments into US Treasuries.

      Until the Muller report is released, and the democrats start investigating, it's perfectly valid to ask "is he beholden to Putin?"

      10 votes
      1. [5]
        Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
        There are two suggestions in this very thread: My own suggestion that Trump is projecting his own ego and arrogance onto "his" country. @stromm's suggestion that Trump is enacting the will of the...

        Why did he platform on USA not sending its troops to foreign wars?

        There are two suggestions in this very thread:

        It's possible that the obvious answer is the right one, rather than looking for conspiracy theories.

        1. nic Link Parent
          Trump also has a weird affinity for despots, and after he was for the war in Iraq he was always against it along with all other wars, so it could be that simple. But why Syria? The Syrian drawdown...

          Trump also has a weird affinity for despots, and after he was for the war in Iraq he was always against it along with all other wars, so it could be that simple.

          But why Syria? The Syrian drawdown is inconsequential compared to other deployments. And Trump has a weird relationship with Putin. Early on Trump was reported to have demanded "deliverables" from his staff to give to Putin for his first meeting. And then met with Putin with only a translator. And then Trump denied that Russian tried to influence America's elections.

          There is enough smoke to investigate if there is a fire. I don't anticipate Mueller or the democrats will uncover any sort of sex tape. What their investigation should confirm/deny is if Russians have any financial hold over The Trump Organization. And the idea that trump would sell out his country for a profit is not a conspiracy at all.

          I would frankly be surprised if he did not try to profit from the presidency.

          3 votes
        2. [3]
          stromm Link Parent
          I'm confused by your comment. It seems like you're agreeing with me. Mostly because "Trumps decision to pull out U.S. troops came alleged after a phone-call from Erdogan, who told him to pull out...

          I'm confused by your comment. It seems like you're agreeing with me.

          Mostly because "Trumps decision to pull out U.S. troops came alleged after a phone-call from Erdogan, who told him to pull out of Syria because" is a conspiracy theory.

          And before he was President he was very clear that the US shouldn't be the world's police or helping militarily in other countries. While running, he was very clear that he had heard people from all political parties that we should back out of other countries and let them resolve their problems themselves (and no I don't mean letting Russia or China do it).

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
            I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. I'm not engaging with your argument at all. I'm just presenting your argument to nic as an example of a possible explanation for Trump's motives,...

            I'm confused by your comment. It seems like you're agreeing with me.

            I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. I'm not engaging with your argument at all.

            I'm just presenting your argument to nic as an example of a possible explanation for Trump's motives, other than him being beholden to Putin. Nothing more than that.

            1 vote
            1. stromm Link Parent
              Ah, it makes sense now. pretty much what I was doing, just different wording.

              Ah, it makes sense now.

              pretty much what I was doing, just different wording.

              2 votes
    2. [4]
      IAmIndeedYou Link Parent
      There is one ulterior motive for Trump - money. He’s bought and paid. But yeah, your take on this sounds right.

      There is one ulterior motive for Trump - money. He’s bought and paid. But yeah, your take on this sounds right.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
        Still hoping there's a logical or strategic reason? :P Sure, he's driven by profit, but he also has a YUUGE ego. And he is very arrogant. And he projects that arrogance and ego onto his country....

        He’s bought and paid.

        Still hoping there's a logical or strategic reason? :P

        Sure, he's driven by profit, but he also has a YUUGE ego. And he is very arrogant. And he projects that arrogance and ego onto his country. Combining these three motives, it's obvious that his country doesn't waste money on other people's wars - especially when he his country isn't being appreciated for it.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          IAmIndeedYou Link Parent
          There’s no logical reason behind his decisions, except his own profit.

          There’s no logical reason behind his decisions, except his own profit.

          2 votes
          1. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
            I'm curious how that works in this case. Could you please explain for me how Donald Trump profits from withdrawing U.S. troops from Syria?

            I'm curious how that works in this case. Could you please explain for me how Donald Trump profits from withdrawing U.S. troops from Syria?

            1 vote
  2. IAmIndeedYou Link
    Tl;dr: Trumps decision to pull out U.S. troops came alleged after a phone-call from Erdogan, who told him to pull out of Syria because they [Turkey] were preparing to assault people tied to the...

    Tl;dr: Trumps decision to pull out U.S. troops came alleged after a phone-call from Erdogan, who told him to pull out of Syria because they [Turkey] were preparing to assault people tied to the Kurdistan Workers Party - a group the U.S calls a terrorist organization. That has led allies to belive he was blackmailed.

    (Sorry for possible grammar mistakes, I’m not a native English-speaker.)

    6 votes
  3. [3]
    stromm Link
    Yea, I'm likely going to be told this is all BS, but those who do don't really pay attention to their own society. What most non-Americans can't accept about President Trump, is that he's mostly...

    Yea, I'm likely going to be told this is all BS, but those who do don't really pay attention to their own society.

    What most non-Americans can't accept about President Trump, is that he's mostly doing what most Americans actually want. Heck, a LOT of American's can't even accept it. But he's doing exactly what he said he would while running.

    Most Americans are tired of the US being expected to be the world's police. Too many other countries always come to us for might, then whine when we say no or back off.

    Too many other countries want to rights they no longer want the US to have. They want us to cover them financially, but not accept that we just can't do that and take care of ourselves.

    They especially want us to allow everyone not an American, a say in how we do things and to come into the country without being accountable for being here.

    They are screwing up their own countries and expect we do the same.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      EightRoundsRapid Link Parent
      The USA has spent the last century touting itself as a superpower, the "greatest country on earth", the only country capable of bringing global stability, all while projecting force and meddling...

      The USA has spent the last century touting itself as a superpower, the "greatest country on earth", the only country capable of bringing global stability, all while projecting force and meddling in the affairs of other nations, destabilising governments and fomenting revolution in countries that dare to question motivation, choose a vaguely left wing government for themselves, or aren't quick enough to toe the line.

      If the USA wants to take its bat and ball and run off home, fine. Go for it.

      But don't try and dress it up as the end of something noble and virtuous. Because it's not. Simple fact is you've realised that running and maintaining an empire is an expensive undertaking, and you no longer have the stomach for it. There's no shame in that, but playing the martyr is disingenuous and slightly nauseating.

      18 votes
      1. stromm (edited ) Link Parent
        I don't think you understood what I meant by the people. Most people in the US want us out of foreign conflicts. People from all parties, all demographics. The only one's who really want us to...

        I don't think you understood what I meant by the people.

        Most people in the US want us out of foreign conflicts. People from all parties, all demographics.

        The only one's who really want us to stay are politicians and businesses who make money off of us being there.

        BTW: I'm not playing anything. No sleight of hand, no read between the lines. Simple. I'm stating simple fact and view of the American PEOPLE.

        It seems like you're not American. Which makes it even more weird that you're trying to insult me by implying that I mean more than what I write.

        As for "no longer have the stomach for it", you obviously don't understand Americans. If you fuck with us, we will fuck up your life. Period. Almost all of us will stand up and promote crushing any enemy of American people.

        The US being in most areas of conflict isn't because of a danger to Americans. It's because our asshat politicians want to stay in office and power and are greedy sons of bitches and they are making massive amounts of money while the US is there.