4 votes

Finland's finance minister deleted an Instagram post and issued an apology after criticism by a human rights group

5 comments

  1. [2]
    Sahasrahla
    Link
    It's been alarming to see how many western nations support de facto exile1, often without trial, when the people involved are associated in some way with terrorism or IS. I don't know anything...

    It's been alarming to see how many western nations support de facto exile1, often without trial, when the people involved are associated in some way with terrorism or IS. I don't know anything about this particular case but have these women been convicted of or even charged with any crimes? Why should they not be allowed to return to their home country (and processed by the criminal justice system, if necessary) if the authority holding them wants them gone from their territory? Is it simply that Finland's government thinks these people are evil but can't prove criminal wrong-doing, so it's trying to effectively prosecute these people outside of the criminal justice system because they can?

    Also, almost an aside, but why is the article highlighting that this is a "women-led" government? Is it to give context given that Finland (presumably) has been in the news recently for this reason? Is it because a women-led government is expected to specifically treat women better? (Would a women-led government exiling men be acceptable or expected?) Is it because a women-led government is supposed to in general be more peaceable or gentle? And, from the perspective of someone who knows almost nothing about Finland's current government, what does "women-led" even mean? Head of government + majority of cabinet ministers or legislators, or what?


    1 Another common way this is being done (which doesn't seem to be the case here?) is by revoking the citizenship of dual citizens, which is a whole other topic.

    7 votes
    1. mrnd
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Yes, this is it pretty much it, they should be allowed to return. Our populist voices are simply shouting "security risk" very loudly. And yes, to many just ignoring the situation feels like the...

      but have these women been convicted of or even charged with any crimes? Why should they not be allowed to return to their home country (and processed by the criminal justice system, if necessary) if the authority holding them wants them gone from their territory?

      Yes, this is it pretty much it, they should be allowed to return. Our populist voices are simply shouting "security risk" very loudly.

      Is it simply that Finland's government thinks these people are evil but can't prove criminal wrong-doing, so it's trying to effectively prosecute these people outside of the criminal justice system because they can?

      And yes, to many just ignoring the situation feels like the easiest way out. But the government seems to be actively seeking ways to get them home, it's the opposition which loudly opposes this. This minister in question is going against the government line, for the reasons I tried to list in my sibling comment.

      5 votes
  2. [3]
    mrnd
    Link
    This has been a fairly complex discussion in Finland these recent days. Certain media outlets have been on a campaign to expose our new government's "secret and illegal" plan of transporting...

    This has been a fairly complex discussion in Finland these recent days. Certain media outlets have been on a campaign to expose our new government's "secret and illegal" plan of transporting willing finnish ISIS-captives home. There's multiple issues people are talking about: whether the foreign ministry has followed the procedures correctly, have they communicated enough and some questioning if bringing terrorists home should even be on the table, even if it's their right as citizens. Many vocal voices are making the distinction berween bringing only the children home, and bringing both the children and their mothers. But like the article says, separating the children is not really even an option, so this poll by the Centre party's minister seems in very poor taste.

    Recently the leader of our most right-wing populist party, the Finns, implied that recent airport excersise by our customs agency Tulli was in fact a cover operation to bring the captives here. This seemed like a obvious attempt at creating distrust, and wasn't received very well by their opponents. Their base seems to like that kind of thing however.

    The Centre party is in somewhat uncomfortable coalition with more left-leaning parties, and they seem to be constantly polling their base on whether it's time to abandon the current coalition and attempt a place in a new right-wing government with the Finns and the National Coalition. For them, seeing the opposition parties getting political points with this kind of populist posturing is very worrisome.

    And that anxiety seems to be what caused this particular episode.

    3 votes
    1. [2]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Wait. Based on the article I thought it was Syrian refugees in Kurdish controlled refugee camps. So it's actually about Finnish citizens taken captive?

      This has been a fairly complex discussion in Finland these recent days. Certain media outlets have been on a campaign to expose our new government's "secret and illegal" plan of transporting willing finnish ISIS-captives home.

      Wait. Based on the article I thought it was Syrian refugees in Kurdish controlled refugee camps. So it's actually about Finnish citizens taken captive?

      4 votes
      1. mrnd
        Link Parent
        Yes, the women in question are Finnish citizens who joined ISIS. So they have the right to return, as they haven't been prosecuted in any way. But also people are very wary of allowing it, because...

        Yes, the women in question are Finnish citizens who joined ISIS. So they have the right to return, as they haven't been prosecuted in any way. But also people are very wary of allowing it, because of well, ISIS.

        4 votes