33 votes

US Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

12 comments

  1. [6]
    gpl
    Link
    Personally I am shocked not only that the court came to this decision (although I believe it to be the right one), but also that Gorsuch penned the majority opinion. I think he correctly...

    Personally I am shocked not only that the court came to this decision (although I believe it to be the right one), but also that Gorsuch penned the majority opinion. I think he correctly identified one of the key issues at stake here - "inconvenient" treaties must be overturned by Congress, not gradually violated and invalidated, waiting for the courts to strike the final blow.

    17 votes
    1. [5]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      We actually had a really good discussion about this a couple Supreme Court decisions ago. Gorsuch, conservative as he may be, is one of the few principled Conservatives you will ever find in this...

      We actually had a really good discussion about this a couple Supreme Court decisions ago.

      Gorsuch, conservative as he may be, is one of the few principled Conservatives you will ever find in this country. To be honest I have no idea why the Trump admin chose him.

      His railing against congressional inaction is actually well within his norm. He is a huge advocate for apolitical judiciary's and thinks the way the Courts have been interpretating laws is a perversion of the system.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        gpl
        Link Parent
        Excellent post, thanks for sharing that. I agree that I have been surprised by Gorsuch and in general don't have an issue with him being on the Supreme Court (well, considering what alternatives...

        Excellent post, thanks for sharing that. I agree that I have been surprised by Gorsuch and in general don't have an issue with him being on the Supreme Court (well, considering what alternatives could have been chosen).

        5 votes
        1. Loire
          Link Parent
          What alternative was chosen on their second kick at the barrel. I consider America genuinely lucky that someone reasonable had Trump's ear for that first Supreme Court pick. Two Kavanaugh's would...

          (well, considering what alternatives could have been chosen).

          What alternative was chosen on their second kick at the barrel. I consider America genuinely lucky that someone reasonable had Trump's ear for that first Supreme Court pick. Two Kavanaugh's would have been disastrous.

          7 votes
      2. [2]
        Stripey
        Link Parent
        Do you have any recommendations for further readings on Gorsuch?

        Do you have any recommendations for further readings on Gorsuch?

        2 votes
        1. Loire
          Link Parent
          There is no better way to learn about Gorsuch, as a judge, then to read the opinions he crafted. He is actually a very good writer and he is, usually, careful to write in such a way so that a...

          There is no better way to learn about Gorsuch, as a judge, then to read the opinions he crafted. He is actually a very good writer and he is, usually, careful to write in such a way so that a layman can understand.

          This piece from Michael W. McConnell, a fellow tenth circuit judge, is a great endorsement and summary of Gorsuch.

          And, of course, to be fair and balanced, there is the Case of the Frozen Truck Driver where Gorsuch's textualism came off as rather cold. Liberals/Democrats tried to hang this one as the reason he should never be a Supreme Court judge.

          Finally a quick article how Gorsuch and Sotomayor (a "liberal" judge) have found common ground to work together on personal liberties.

          But really, for any high level judge, the best way to get to know them is to read the opinions they craft. That's how we know that Kavanaugh appears to be in support of Presidential immunity to criminal investigation [warning: pdf download]. AKA an authoritarian toadie ...

          9 votes
  2. [6]
    AugustusFerdinand
    Link
    This will be interesting to watch as the areas in question comprise 43% of the total land area of the state. In addition to the possibility of new trials or outright release for the 1,887 Native...

    This will be interesting to watch as the areas in question comprise 43% of the total land area of the state.

    In addition to the possibility of new trials or outright release for the 1,887 Native Americans incarcerated as of December 31, 2019, for crimes that occurred in counties in the treaty territory of all five tribes. Including the named party in this case, McGirt, who was convicted of raping a 4 year old child and the per curiam case Sharp v. Murphy where Patrick Murphy was convicted of pulling his girlfriend’s ex-husband out of the backseat of a Dodge sedan, slashing his chest and neck, cutting off his genitals, and leaving him on the side of the road to bleed to death. The state of Oklahoma said there are "155 murderers, 113 rapists, and over 200 felons who committed crimes against children" included in that 1,887 number.

    8 votes
    1. [5]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      I wonder how the tribe in this area handles such questions of justice and punishment?

      I wonder how the tribe in this area handles such questions of justice and punishment?

      1. [4]
        temporalarcheologist
        Link Parent
        I mean.... if it's anything like new mexico pueblos,a group of people will be showing up at his house in the middle of the night with guns. if it's a larger tribe there might be tribal police,and...

        I mean.... if it's anything like new mexico pueblos,a group of people will be showing up at his house in the middle of the night with guns. if it's a larger tribe there might be tribal police,and it's not like he isn't going to be publicly shamed for the rest of his life

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          Silbern
          Link Parent
          Tbf, for attempted murder, I'd want to see something more than public shaming. Prison isn't just for punishment, it's to isolate people that are too dangerous to function in regular society, and...

          Tbf, for attempted murder, I'd want to see something more than public shaming. Prison isn't just for punishment, it's to isolate people that are too dangerous to function in regular society, and I'd argue killing someone because your girlfriend left you for them signifies a pretty goddamn dangerous lack of control. Afaik, tribal lands are still subject to federal courts for felonies, so the federal court system should pick up the slack at the bare minimum in cases like this. No way someone who did that should be walking free.

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Omnicrola
            Link Parent
            FTA:

            FTA:

            Under U.S. law, tribe members who commit crimes on tribal land cannot be prosecuted in state courts and instead are subject to federal prosecution, which sometimes can be beneficial to defendants.

            3 votes
            1. psi
              Link Parent
              Of course, federal prosecution can also be worse for the defendant -- some federal statutes, eg, have a maximum punishment of death even when the state doesn't (with the caveat that it's been...

              Of course, federal prosecution can also be worse for the defendant -- some federal statutes, eg, have a maximum punishment of death even when the state doesn't (with the caveat that it's been almost 20 years since the last federal execution, and with the second caveat that Barr announced the resumption of federal executions last year).

              1 vote