34 votes

A University of British Columbia study gave fifty homeless people $7,500 each and debunks stereotypes about homeless people’s spending habits

14 comments

  1. [4]
    Pioneer
    Link
    These research pieces have been done to death over the years, and they all come back with the same realisation. That giving money to poor people is so much better off than if it's given in voucher...

    These research pieces have been done to death over the years, and they all come back with the same realisation. That giving money to poor people is so much better off than if it's given in voucher / monitored forms.

    Actually treating people as grownups works so much better for the health and agency, it's unreal.

    26 votes
    1. [3]
      Minty
      Link Parent
      Yeah. The problem isn't that we don't know it, because we knew since... maybe ever. Not that it's a bad thing to confirm it and its many variations. The problem is a lot of people believing the...

      Yeah. The problem isn't that we don't know it, because we knew since... maybe ever. Not that it's a bad thing to confirm it and its many variations.

      The problem is a lot of people believing the homeless deserve it by their own fault or even divine judgment. And science doesn't influence such beliefs.

      14 votes
      1. Pioneer
        Link Parent
        This is probably the crux of it. Lots of right-wing spin around, "Your taxes paying for the freeloaders" for the past 200+ years is killing off the West spectacularly. Such a shame. We could be so...

        The problem is a lot of people believing the homeless deserve it by their own fault or even divine judgment. And science doesn't influence such beliefs.

        This is probably the crux of it.

        Lots of right-wing spin around, "Your taxes paying for the freeloaders" for the past 200+ years is killing off the West spectacularly.

        Such a shame. We could be so much better if we cut down the egotists and narcs who demand control to the detriment of everything else.

        10 votes
      2. norb
        Link Parent
        Agreed. When morality starts getting applied to mental illness (addiction, etc.) then it's easier to justify saying someone doesn't deserve the help they need.

        The problem is a lot of people believing the homeless deserve it by their own fault or even divine judgment. And science doesn't influence such beliefs.

        Agreed. When morality starts getting applied to mental illness (addiction, etc.) then it's easier to justify saying someone doesn't deserve the help they need.

        6 votes
  2. [10]
    Minty
    Link
    I'm not so sure about these results. To gain more certainty, the study should be replicated 500-700 times in Canada alone

    I'm not so sure about these results. To gain more certainty, the study should be replicated 500-700 times in Canada alone

    7 votes
    1. chocobean
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Better pay more buddy think tanks more money to study again and again. Cynicism aside: 7500 paid for less than a third of the year of housing on avg. Which isn't surprising for Vancouver: so many...

      Better pay more buddy think tanks more money to study again and again.

      Cynicism aside:

      Cash recipients spent 99 fewer days homeless, increased their savings, and saved society an average of $777 each by spending less time in shelters. They did not spend more money on temptation goods than the control group did.

      7500 paid for less than a third of the year of housing on avg. Which isn't surprising for Vancouver: so many people are close to homelessness because of the sheer unaffordability.

      Dr Zhao is going to replicate this study in larger sizes across Canada. Which isn't because he needs convincing it's because we still have so many stubborn fools who think couple hundred bucks or CERB paid for years of low employment. The repeats are hopefully going to convince some voters and decision makers. UBI will, once in place, save us so much money.

      5 votes
    2. [8]
      JakeTheDog
      Link Parent
      Did you perform a power analysis to get that number range?

      Did you perform a power analysis to get that number range?

      2 votes
      1. [7]
        Minty
        Link Parent
        Yes, I've performed power analysis and found severe power imbalances in our societies. Seriously though, I took these stats and divided them by sample size

        Yes, I've performed power analysis and found severe power imbalances in our societies.

        Seriously though, I took these stats and divided them by sample size

        7 votes
        1. [6]
          JakeTheDog
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          By power analysis I mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_a_test#Power_analysis since I was wondering how you got to such a specific number of 500-700. Dividing by sample size doesn't mean...

          By power analysis I mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_a_test#Power_analysis since I was wondering how you got to such a specific number of 500-700.

          Dividing by sample size doesn't mean anything... Measures of certainty don't work like that. In cases where the variance is small and/or differences are large, you don't need large sample sizes.

          In this case, since the results are rather profound, it wouldn't be wrong to qualitatively say that the sample size is sufficient. There's no point in wasting money in another study, just execute.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Berdes
            Link Parent
            I think Minty's suggestions was more about giving $7500 to all homeless people in Canada, rather than the potential statistical results from the study.

            I think Minty's suggestions was more about giving $7500 to all homeless people in Canada, rather than the potential statistical results from the study.

            19 votes
            1. [2]
              Minty
              Link Parent
              Thank you! I started to worry no one will get it lol

              Thank you! I started to worry no one will get it lol

              14 votes
              1. JakeTheDog
                Link Parent
                sigh... Poe's Law certainly holds true, especially for a site like Tildes where we're more used to serious discussions.

                sigh... Poe's Law certainly holds true, especially for a site like Tildes where we're more used to serious discussions.

                3 votes
          2. [2]
            Minty
            Link Parent
            Pro tip: things before "Seriously though" tend to be a joke ;)

            Pro tip: things before "Seriously though" tend to be a joke ;)

            3 votes
            1. lou
              Link Parent
              Unless it is exceedingly explicit, lacking all subtlety and nuance, irony tends to fail on the internet, and Tildes is no different :P

              Unless it is exceedingly explicit, lacking all subtlety and nuance, irony tends to fail on the internet, and Tildes is no different :P

              3 votes