A plain reading of the record shows that in the chaotic period before and after the 2020 election, Milley did as much as, or more than, any other American to defend the constitutional order, to prevent the military from being deployed against the American people, and to forestall the eruption of wars with America’s nuclear-armed adversaries. Along the way, Milley deflected Trump’s exhortations to have the U.S. military ignore, and even on occasion commit, war crimes. Milley and other military officers deserve praise for protecting democracy, but their actions should also cause deep unease. In the American system, it is the voters, the courts, and Congress that are meant to serve as checks on a president’s behavior, not the generals. Civilians provide direction, funding, and oversight; the military then follows lawful orders.
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Shortly after the call from Pelosi, Milley gathered the Pentagon’s top nuclear officers [...] for an emergency meeting. [...] Milley told the assembled generals and admirals that, out of an abundance of caution, he wanted to go over the procedures and processes for deploying nuclear weapons. Hyten summarized the standard procedures—including ensuring the participation of the Joint Chiefs in any conversation with the president about imminent war. At the conclusion of Hyten’s presentation, according to meeting participants, Milley said, “If anything weird or crazy happens, just make sure we all know.” Milley then went to each officer in turn and asked if he understood the procedures. They all affirmed that they did. Milley told other members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, “All we’ve got to do is see to it that the plane lands on January 20,” when the constitutional transfer of power to the new president would be completed.
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When I mentioned to Milley my view that Trump was mentally and morally unequipped to make decisions concerning war and peace, he would say only, “The president alone decides to launch nuclear weapons, but he doesn’t launch them alone.” He then repeated the sentence.
He has also said in private settings, more colloquially, “The president can’t wake up in the middle of the night and decide to push a button. One reason for this is that there’s no button to push.”
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According to Esper, Trump desperately wanted a violent response to the protesters, asking, “Can’t you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something?” When I raised this with Milley, he explained, somewhat obliquely, how he would manage the president’s eruptions.
“It was a rhetorical question,” Milley explained. “ ‘Can’t you just shoot them in the legs?’ ”
“He never actually ordered you to shoot anyone in the legs?” I asked.
“Right. This could be interpreted many, many different ways,” he said.
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Miley and others around Trump used different methods to handle the unstable president. “You can judge my success or failure on this, but I always tried to use persuasion with the president, not undermine or go around him or slow-roll,” Milley told me. “I would present my argument to him. The president makes decisions, and if the president ordered us to do X, Y, or Z and it was legal, we would do it. If it’s not legal, it’s my job to say it’s illegal, and here’s why it’s illegal. I would emphasize cost and risk of the various courses of action. My job, then and now, is to let the president know what the course of action could be, let them know what the cost is, what the risks and benefits are. And then make a recommendation. That’s what I’ve done under both presidents.”
He went on to say, “President Trump never ordered me to tell the military to do something illegal. He never did that. I think that’s an important point.”
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Milley has told friends that he expects that if Trump returns to the White House, the newly elected president will come after him. “He’ll start throwing people in jail, and I’d be on the top of the list,” he has said. But he’s also told friends that he does not believe the country will reelect Trump.
Yes, it was a rather long article for what it was. Lots could have been cut. I tried to quote the more interesting bits. But what do you think happened with Lafayette Square? Do you think he...
Yes, it was a rather long article for what it was. Lots could have been cut. I tried to quote the more interesting bits.
But what do you think happened with Lafayette Square? Do you think he intended to participate in Trump’s photo op and then changed his mind after it started? I think it’s quite plausible that he was unaware of what he walked into, pretty much as he described.
I know that as a military man (and a career one at that) Milley knows that he can't take a political stance while in his pinks and greens... But "oh he was asking rhetorically" is such a fucking...
I know that as a military man (and a career one at that) Milley knows that he can't take a political stance while in his pinks and greens...
But "oh he was asking rhetorically" is such a fucking cop out. Why not just look at him and say "Posse Comitatus."? The Latin would leave his head spinning and he'd never understand you're signaling to everyone around that's an unlawful order? Just tell the interviewer "He gave me an unlawful order and therefore it was not followed." His interview is already going to be viewed as a political act by the insurrectionists in the government, might as well speak plainly.
I read it more as a kind of ‘delicately managing up’ maneuver. He (probably smartly) said absolutely nothing to the President so that it couldn’t be received as any kind of challenge to King Baby,...
I read it more as a kind of ‘delicately managing up’ maneuver. He (probably smartly) said absolutely nothing to the President so that it couldn’t be received as any kind of challenge to King Baby, and then after the fact called it a rhetorical question so as to further just deaden any possible perception of challenge to Trump. Doing so not just to save his job, but also because the next person in line to take it might not be as deft at avoiding President-created calamity.
I know it’s a puff piece- but frankly, we need every adult voice we can muster that reinforces respect for systems and government being functional we can get these days. All that ever gets reported are threats to it. Teaching people that there ARE people and institutions and policies that do work and are in place for reasons is important- especially when our schools are so bad at it.
That said, I thank that commenter above for all the added context. Well done sir.
It is literally a question. Interpreting a question as an order seems like a bad move. A rhetorical question is one that doesn’t have to be answered. If he had actually answered the question then...
It is literally a question. Interpreting a question as an order seems like a bad move.
A rhetorical question is one that doesn’t have to be answered. If he had actually answered the question then who knows where it would have gone. Gotten fired, maybe.
The reporter could have asked him to answer the question, though, and I’m sure gotten an explanation of Posse Comitatus.
I've been in a position to advise executive level on things, so I get what he's talking about, but when the top asks for something outside the scope of the current efforts you've got to do just...
I've been in a position to advise executive level on things, so I get what he's talking about, but when the top asks for something outside the scope of the current efforts you've got to do just that and advise them. He claims he did advise Trump but I take issue with calling his questions rhetorical. The question was not rhetorical. Had Milley told him they could shoot protesters, Trump would've ran with it. He never gave the order to shoot them by Milley's account but he did ask after it.
My main point is that Trump's question was not rhetorical because he's openly engaged in actions that show he's not above using violence against protestors (The Bible stunt, etc) and for Milley to claim it was rhetorical is a poor attempt at not appearing political while in uniform. Milley may be correct saying that Trump never actually issued and signed the orders to attack but a question like that isn't rhetorical given his actions.
I suspect Milley deliberately chose an interpretation that seemed most likely to work in the moment (in a lawyer-like way) and he's sticking to it. From the outside it's easy to say that he should...
I suspect Milley deliberately chose an interpretation that seemed most likely to work in the moment (in a lawyer-like way) and he's sticking to it.
From the outside it's easy to say that he should have confronted his crazy boss more, but that's unlikely to be seen as a positive in the military.
From the article:
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[...]
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Yes, it was a rather long article for what it was. Lots could have been cut. I tried to quote the more interesting bits.
But what do you think happened with Lafayette Square? Do you think he intended to participate in Trump’s photo op and then changed his mind after it started? I think it’s quite plausible that he was unaware of what he walked into, pretty much as he described.
Great write up. Its like something out of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Machine_(film) where a general is followed around by a journalist.
I know that as a military man (and a career one at that) Milley knows that he can't take a political stance while in his pinks and greens...
But "oh he was asking rhetorically" is such a fucking cop out. Why not just look at him and say "Posse Comitatus."? The Latin would leave his head spinning and he'd never understand you're signaling to everyone around that's an unlawful order? Just tell the interviewer "He gave me an unlawful order and therefore it was not followed." His interview is already going to be viewed as a political act by the insurrectionists in the government, might as well speak plainly.
I read it more as a kind of ‘delicately managing up’ maneuver. He (probably smartly) said absolutely nothing to the President so that it couldn’t be received as any kind of challenge to King Baby, and then after the fact called it a rhetorical question so as to further just deaden any possible perception of challenge to Trump. Doing so not just to save his job, but also because the next person in line to take it might not be as deft at avoiding President-created calamity.
I know it’s a puff piece- but frankly, we need every adult voice we can muster that reinforces respect for systems and government being functional we can get these days. All that ever gets reported are threats to it. Teaching people that there ARE people and institutions and policies that do work and are in place for reasons is important- especially when our schools are so bad at it.
That said, I thank that commenter above for all the added context. Well done sir.
It is literally a question. Interpreting a question as an order seems like a bad move.
A rhetorical question is one that doesn’t have to be answered. If he had actually answered the question then who knows where it would have gone. Gotten fired, maybe.
The reporter could have asked him to answer the question, though, and I’m sure gotten an explanation of Posse Comitatus.
I've been in a position to advise executive level on things, so I get what he's talking about, but when the top asks for something outside the scope of the current efforts you've got to do just that and advise them. He claims he did advise Trump but I take issue with calling his questions rhetorical. The question was not rhetorical. Had Milley told him they could shoot protesters, Trump would've ran with it. He never gave the order to shoot them by Milley's account but he did ask after it.
My main point is that Trump's question was not rhetorical because he's openly engaged in actions that show he's not above using violence against protestors (The Bible stunt, etc) and for Milley to claim it was rhetorical is a poor attempt at not appearing political while in uniform. Milley may be correct saying that Trump never actually issued and signed the orders to attack but a question like that isn't rhetorical given his actions.
I suspect Milley deliberately chose an interpretation that seemed most likely to work in the moment (in a lawyer-like way) and he's sticking to it.
From the outside it's easy to say that he should have confronted his crazy boss more, but that's unlikely to be seen as a positive in the military.