I hadn't realized that this was something that was happening. I'd be curious as to the scale of this movement, considering how idolized big tech companies are by non-engineers. Good on those...
I hadn't realized that this was something that was happening. I'd be curious as to the scale of this movement, considering how idolized big tech companies are by non-engineers. Good on those featured in the article for taking meaningful action, or non-action based on their principles though!
The "Tech Workers' Coalition" is currently based primarily in San Francisco and Seattle, so I'm not involved with that. Instead, when I bother to talk with recruiters at all, the first thing I...
The "Tech Workers' Coalition" is currently based primarily in San Francisco and Seattle, so I'm not involved with that. Instead, when I bother to talk with recruiters at all, the first thing I make them understand is that I will not take any public sector jobs or projects pertaining to the military, law enforcement. That has always been my stance, and by always I mean the last 22 years. The second thing I make them understand is that I won't take any private sector work involving the military, law enforcement, adtech, or social media.
That's amazing. I do something similar too. I've had a couple job interviewers where military or similar work was brought up, and I just mention that I won't work on anything "harmful". Usually...
That's amazing. I do something similar too. I've had a couple job interviewers where military or similar work was brought up, and I just mention that I won't work on anything "harmful". Usually get some follow up questions, but really hasn't effect me at all. I'm lucky enough to be able to choose.
Thanks. I tried taking that tack at first, but soon realized that even if the work I agreed to do wasn't directly harmful, it still enabled the military to do greater harm. Take logistical support...
That's amazing.
Thanks.
I've had a couple job interviewers where military or similar work was brought up, and I just mention that I won't work on anything "harmful".
I tried taking that tack at first, but soon realized that even if the work I agreed to do wasn't directly harmful, it still enabled the military to do greater harm. Take logistical support as an example. Strictly speaking, it's just a system that helps the military do a better job of moving personnel and materiel to where they need to be, but helping to build such systems makes the military more harmful by improving its efficiency.
Usually get some follow up questions, but really hasn't effect me at all. I'm lucky enough to be able to choose.
I have to admit, I wouldn't be as grey nowadays. I was originally no military. Then, when I was still in school, my prof was approached to work on a quick deploy sensor communications network for...
I have to admit, I wouldn't be as grey nowadays. I was originally no military. Then, when I was still in school, my prof was approached to work on a quick deploy sensor communications network for disaster recovery. This was work directly for the military that honestly did deal with storms and flooding. So, I went from no military work at all to disaster recovery being okay. Then I had a friend that basically works on mapping technology. Sounds safe enough, except it was used to improve the targeting ability of drones, yes with missiles. So now, I'm pretty "no military" too.
I think it really goes with the whole "any good tool is also a good weapon" thing, but yeah, it's honestly really disheartening how a lot of good work is corrupted. I didn't know about your...
I think it really goes with the whole "any good tool is also a good weapon" thing, but yeah, it's honestly really disheartening how a lot of good work is corrupted.
I didn't know about your example, thanks for sharing.
Edit to add: it's a really interesting example, you should consider submitting it as a topic!
What have the responses been when you've said that? Any common themes? I admire your conviction in sticking to your principles. I'm unfortunately in a position that conflicts with my own code of...
What have the responses been when you've said that? Any common themes? I admire your conviction in sticking to your principles. I'm unfortunately in a position that conflicts with my own code of ethics. Do you have any advice on how to leave?
Mostly contemptuous. Most recruiters don't want to hear from idealistic techies. They want techies who are happy to do the job, get paid, and keep their qualms to themselves. Thanks, but it's...
What have the responses been when you've said that?
Mostly contemptuous. Most recruiters don't want to hear from idealistic techies. They want techies who are happy to do the job, get paid, and keep their qualms to themselves.
I admire your conviction in sticking to your principles.
Thanks, but it's mostly a matter of enlightened self-interest. From what I've heard and read, Silicon Valley is a shitty place to live and work unless you're the sort of obsessive person who does nothing but live, breathe, eat, and sleep code. I because a developer because I figured it was a better way to earn a living while I worked on my writing than cleaning toilets. I was wrong, but I don't want to work for companies that will expect me to "show my passion" by putting in eighty hour weeks (which is why I also refuse to work in games). I'm not passionate about code. I just happen to be reasonably good at it. As a result, I look for jobs/projects that don't demand too much effort from me.
I'm unfortunately in a position that conflicts with my own code of ethics.
That's a shame.
Do you have any advice on how to leave?
Do the bare minimum. Save as much money as you can. Look for a new job when you aren't working. As soon as you get a solid offer, give two weeks notice.
Thank you for your perspective! Even if you refuse out of enlightened self-interest, I don't think that necessarily eliminates the effect your refusal to take jobs that conflict with your values...
Thank you for your perspective! Even if you refuse out of enlightened self-interest, I don't think that necessarily eliminates the effect your refusal to take jobs that conflict with your values has. With regards to my personal situation, I'll keep on keeping on. Maybe I can find some networking events in the area or something.
More and more I’m realizing just how corrupt our industry is and how people have taken such an awesome tool and use it to take advantage of others. Companies have C-level members who get paid...
More and more I’m realizing just how corrupt our industry is and how people have taken such an awesome tool and use it to take advantage of others. Companies have C-level members who get paid these insane amounts of money to “watch people work” while other people, building the products, get treated like trash with horrific work and living conditions.
Due to how new tech is, there aren’t really any governing rules as for how it should be handled and used. I firmly believe that like doctors we need to become a body of developers who uphold a standard for this thing that we understand. We are the ones who spend so much time with it and in order to be able to demand ethic work conditions we need to take and uphold our own oath or cofe of ethics.
I kind of torn on stuff like this. On the one hand I refuse to work in a major corporation or the military, but my company gets 90% of our funding from SBIR and STTR programs for the military. Our...
I kind of torn on stuff like this. On the one hand I refuse to work in a major corporation or the military, but my company gets 90% of our funding from SBIR and STTR programs for the military. Our technology can be used for non-military applications, but the military are the ones with the money to fund us. We started our business trying to develop contracts with Boeing and NASA, but their money quickly dried up while the DoD keeps us afloat. Our technology is not able to be modified into a weapon per say, but it definitely gives an advantage to warships over current technology. At the same time, it is much better for the environment than current technology as well.
I hadn't realized that this was something that was happening. I'd be curious as to the scale of this movement, considering how idolized big tech companies are by non-engineers. Good on those featured in the article for taking meaningful action, or non-action based on their principles though!
The "Tech Workers' Coalition" is currently based primarily in San Francisco and Seattle, so I'm not involved with that. Instead, when I bother to talk with recruiters at all, the first thing I make them understand is that I will not take any public sector jobs or projects pertaining to the military, law enforcement. That has always been my stance, and by always I mean the last 22 years. The second thing I make them understand is that I won't take any private sector work involving the military, law enforcement, adtech, or social media.
That's amazing. I do something similar too. I've had a couple job interviewers where military or similar work was brought up, and I just mention that I won't work on anything "harmful". Usually get some follow up questions, but really hasn't effect me at all. I'm lucky enough to be able to choose.
Thanks.
I tried taking that tack at first, but soon realized that even if the work I agreed to do wasn't directly harmful, it still enabled the military to do greater harm. Take logistical support as an example. Strictly speaking, it's just a system that helps the military do a better job of moving personnel and materiel to where they need to be, but helping to build such systems makes the military more harmful by improving its efficiency.
I've also been fortunate thus far.
I have to admit, I wouldn't be as grey nowadays. I was originally no military. Then, when I was still in school, my prof was approached to work on a quick deploy sensor communications network for disaster recovery. This was work directly for the military that honestly did deal with storms and flooding. So, I went from no military work at all to disaster recovery being okay. Then I had a friend that basically works on mapping technology. Sounds safe enough, except it was used to improve the targeting ability of drones, yes with missiles. So now, I'm pretty "no military" too.
I think it really goes with the whole "any good tool is also a good weapon" thing, but yeah, it's honestly really disheartening how a lot of good work is corrupted.
I didn't know about your example, thanks for sharing.
Edit to add: it's a really interesting example, you should consider submitting it as a topic!
I also think your article is really interesting and you should post it.
What have the responses been when you've said that? Any common themes? I admire your conviction in sticking to your principles. I'm unfortunately in a position that conflicts with my own code of ethics. Do you have any advice on how to leave?
Mostly contemptuous. Most recruiters don't want to hear from idealistic techies. They want techies who are happy to do the job, get paid, and keep their qualms to themselves.
Thanks, but it's mostly a matter of enlightened self-interest. From what I've heard and read, Silicon Valley is a shitty place to live and work unless you're the sort of obsessive person who does nothing but live, breathe, eat, and sleep code. I because a developer because I figured it was a better way to earn a living while I worked on my writing than cleaning toilets. I was wrong, but I don't want to work for companies that will expect me to "show my passion" by putting in eighty hour weeks (which is why I also refuse to work in games). I'm not passionate about code. I just happen to be reasonably good at it. As a result, I look for jobs/projects that don't demand too much effort from me.
That's a shame.
Do the bare minimum. Save as much money as you can. Look for a new job when you aren't working. As soon as you get a solid offer, give two weeks notice.
Thank you for your perspective! Even if you refuse out of enlightened self-interest, I don't think that necessarily eliminates the effect your refusal to take jobs that conflict with your values has. With regards to my personal situation, I'll keep on keeping on. Maybe I can find some networking events in the area or something.
More and more I’m realizing just how corrupt our industry is and how people have taken such an awesome tool and use it to take advantage of others. Companies have C-level members who get paid these insane amounts of money to “watch people work” while other people, building the products, get treated like trash with horrific work and living conditions.
Due to how new tech is, there aren’t really any governing rules as for how it should be handled and used. I firmly believe that like doctors we need to become a body of developers who uphold a standard for this thing that we understand. We are the ones who spend so much time with it and in order to be able to demand ethic work conditions we need to take and uphold our own oath or cofe of ethics.
Uncle Bob: https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2015/11/18/TheProgrammersOath.html
I kind of torn on stuff like this. On the one hand I refuse to work in a major corporation or the military, but my company gets 90% of our funding from SBIR and STTR programs for the military. Our technology can be used for non-military applications, but the military are the ones with the money to fund us. We started our business trying to develop contracts with Boeing and NASA, but their money quickly dried up while the DoD keeps us afloat. Our technology is not able to be modified into a weapon per say, but it definitely gives an advantage to warships over current technology. At the same time, it is much better for the environment than current technology as well.