My partner and I have been getting into sleeper trains (and rail transport in general) a lot more recently. We've specifically been using European Sleeper to get from where we live to the UK (or...
My partner and I have been getting into sleeper trains (and rail transport in general) a lot more recently. We've specifically been using European Sleeper to get from where we live to the UK (or at least to Brussels and the Eurostar).
The actual sleeper train is quite nice - we've not been in a bed compartment yet, but the couchettes are nice, and you can rent out a whole sitting compartment for two people and then it works mostly the same as a couchette. It's loud and not the most comfortable night in the world, but it's very convenient to turn up at one station in the evening and be in another country by morning ready to start the day.
Unfortunately in our case, the next day is usually a second day of travelling. The big problem here is that you've got to plan delays in, which means having big 2-3 hour buffers between each leg of the journey. These buffers often eat as much time up as the train routes themselves - and, especially for the sleeper train, are often necessary, as you'll get a short-notice email that the train will be running an hour late, and you'd better hope you've packed in enough time to eat and get your bags and passports scanned at the station.
The difficulty is comparing this to flying, which takes much less time, and is significantly cheaper. There are some benefits to the train - you don't need to have decided what bags you want to take several months in advance, and security is a breeze compared to airport security - but it's very clearly a luxury choice that we're making here. We want to visit a different country, we want to take the train, and so we pay for these privileges.
The cost makes sense - laying down the infrastructure for trains is so much more expensive than slapping a new airport down in the middle of nowhere*, and it's very clear that the current amount of money being spent on infrastructure is not enough (or at least, it isn't being spent efficiently enough). But it's still expensive, and I can't imagine that changing any time soon - if anything, it seems more likely that taxes on airlines will make travelling abroad more expensive for everyone.
Planes look cheaper until you realize that you'd either have to pay for a hotel an extra night at your destination, or if you choose to fly the day of you have the extra time cost of taking an...
Planes look cheaper until you realize that you'd either have to pay for a hotel an extra night at your destination, or if you choose to fly the day of you have the extra time cost of taking an hour to get to the airport, be there at least an hour early, and at your destination taking an hour to get to the city center, you're looking at 4 hours minimum from when you walk out the door to get to your destination. So you've burned half a vacation day waking up early, eating low quality over priced food, slinging luggage, standing in queues, and crammed shoulder to shoulder in a tin can.
Compare that to arriving in the city center at your destination, well rested, at 7-8am, for the same cost as a hotel room would have cost anyways. It's just a no-brainer to me.
Your experience seems quite different to mine. In my experience, flying around Europe, it's usually possible to get from the airport to the nearest city centre in about half an hour, and it rarely...
Your experience seems quite different to mine. In my experience, flying around Europe, it's usually possible to get from the airport to the nearest city centre in about half an hour, and it rarely costs that much extra. In fairness, often the city where I'm landing isn't where I actually want to be, and I need to get on a train for another few hours, but this has also been my experience with night trains as well: if the train doesn't exactly link up the cities you're interested in, then you'll have to add in extra travel time to accommodate getting between those cities and where the train goes.
I also disagree with your assessment that (a) a night train costs the same as a night in a hotel room (at least, not the sort of hotels I stay at, maybe I don't treat myself enough), and (b) that one ends up well-rested as a result. Like, it's not a bad night's sleep, but it's loud and the seats aren't particularly comfortable. If you're in a shared compartment, it's very hit and miss. It's probably a lot better if you get a proper sleeping compartment, but those are expensive - now we're way beyond the hotel room comparison!
I'm sorry if this is coming across as overly negative - I'm a big fan of travelling by train, and I regularly gush about the night trains I've been on to friends and colleagues - but there's something about this comment that rubs me the wrong way. There's enough great about rail travel that we can sell it on what it's good at, not try and sell it as something else that it isn't.
Fair enough. My inter-city travel experience is probably 95%+ by flight, and only 1% being sleeper trains (the rest being regular trains). My job was 50% travel for 10 years so of my criticism is...
Fair enough. My inter-city travel experience is probably 95%+ by flight, and only 1% being sleeper trains (the rest being regular trains). My job was 50% travel for 10 years so of my criticism is just my distaste of airports in general.
I will however say that the nearest city city <> airport half hour travel can be the case often enough, but doesn't tell the full picture as often you're waiting on a train or a bus to show up, and travel either to or from the airport are never on your exact schedule. Then add in the fact that most major airports take quite a while to walk through, plus waiting for baggage, and you can very easily end up at the conclusion that it is just risky to plan anything less than an hour when planning your agenda
My partner and I have been getting into sleeper trains (and rail transport in general) a lot more recently. We've specifically been using European Sleeper to get from where we live to the UK (or at least to Brussels and the Eurostar).
The actual sleeper train is quite nice - we've not been in a bed compartment yet, but the couchettes are nice, and you can rent out a whole sitting compartment for two people and then it works mostly the same as a couchette. It's loud and not the most comfortable night in the world, but it's very convenient to turn up at one station in the evening and be in another country by morning ready to start the day.
Unfortunately in our case, the next day is usually a second day of travelling. The big problem here is that you've got to plan delays in, which means having big 2-3 hour buffers between each leg of the journey. These buffers often eat as much time up as the train routes themselves - and, especially for the sleeper train, are often necessary, as you'll get a short-notice email that the train will be running an hour late, and you'd better hope you've packed in enough time to eat and get your bags and passports scanned at the station.
The difficulty is comparing this to flying, which takes much less time, and is significantly cheaper. There are some benefits to the train - you don't need to have decided what bags you want to take several months in advance, and security is a breeze compared to airport security - but it's very clearly a luxury choice that we're making here. We want to visit a different country, we want to take the train, and so we pay for these privileges.
The cost makes sense - laying down the infrastructure for trains is so much more expensive than slapping a new airport down in the middle of nowhere*, and it's very clear that the current amount of money being spent on infrastructure is not enough (or at least, it isn't being spent efficiently enough). But it's still expensive, and I can't imagine that changing any time soon - if anything, it seems more likely that taxes on airlines will make travelling abroad more expensive for everyone.
* Berlin excepted
Planes look cheaper until you realize that you'd either have to pay for a hotel an extra night at your destination, or if you choose to fly the day of you have the extra time cost of taking an hour to get to the airport, be there at least an hour early, and at your destination taking an hour to get to the city center, you're looking at 4 hours minimum from when you walk out the door to get to your destination. So you've burned half a vacation day waking up early, eating low quality over priced food, slinging luggage, standing in queues, and crammed shoulder to shoulder in a tin can.
Compare that to arriving in the city center at your destination, well rested, at 7-8am, for the same cost as a hotel room would have cost anyways. It's just a no-brainer to me.
Your experience seems quite different to mine. In my experience, flying around Europe, it's usually possible to get from the airport to the nearest city centre in about half an hour, and it rarely costs that much extra. In fairness, often the city where I'm landing isn't where I actually want to be, and I need to get on a train for another few hours, but this has also been my experience with night trains as well: if the train doesn't exactly link up the cities you're interested in, then you'll have to add in extra travel time to accommodate getting between those cities and where the train goes.
I also disagree with your assessment that (a) a night train costs the same as a night in a hotel room (at least, not the sort of hotels I stay at, maybe I don't treat myself enough), and (b) that one ends up well-rested as a result. Like, it's not a bad night's sleep, but it's loud and the seats aren't particularly comfortable. If you're in a shared compartment, it's very hit and miss. It's probably a lot better if you get a proper sleeping compartment, but those are expensive - now we're way beyond the hotel room comparison!
I'm sorry if this is coming across as overly negative - I'm a big fan of travelling by train, and I regularly gush about the night trains I've been on to friends and colleagues - but there's something about this comment that rubs me the wrong way. There's enough great about rail travel that we can sell it on what it's good at, not try and sell it as something else that it isn't.
Fair enough. My inter-city travel experience is probably 95%+ by flight, and only 1% being sleeper trains (the rest being regular trains). My job was 50% travel for 10 years so of my criticism is just my distaste of airports in general.
I will however say that the nearest city city <> airport half hour travel can be the case often enough, but doesn't tell the full picture as often you're waiting on a train or a bus to show up, and travel either to or from the airport are never on your exact schedule. Then add in the fact that most major airports take quite a while to walk through, plus waiting for baggage, and you can very easily end up at the conclusion that it is just risky to plan anything less than an hour when planning your agenda