My first experience with Murderbot Diaries was with the Kevin Free audiobooks, so that’s been the voice I’ve heard the character as, bias on the table. My personal take is that the character of...
My first experience with Murderbot Diaries was with the Kevin Free audiobooks, so that’s been the voice I’ve heard the character as, bias on the table. My personal take is that the character of Murderbot is a hard cast, especially if you want star power, so I don’t necessarily begrudge them for going with a safer casting choice for a high concept adaptation no one has heard of. I’m way more interested in how they’re going to translate tone since Murderbot is in its head so much and that doesn’t really translate well to television, unless the show-runners are playing up the contrast between quiet killer robot to the rest of the ensemble, and the TV addict, work a day SecUnit who’s the only one who knows what’s its doing when it has the narrative focus.
Poor form going straight to criticising the casting due to their skin colour and gender, that doesn't make me look upon the author favourably. The actor does seem pretty generic looking which I...
But without putting too fine a point on it, he’s a white dude in a role that absolutely does not require a white dude.
Poor form going straight to criticising the casting due to their skin colour and gender, that doesn't make me look upon the author favourably.
The actor does seem pretty generic looking which I think is suitable for the role - Murderbot would be miscast IMO with distinctive features or anything that'd make them stand out in a crowd (when wearing clothes of course). I personally had the impression of a more androgynous look but I guess I can live with that.
I wouldn't hold high hopes for an adaption getting things right though given I rarely like TV/movie adaptions of books. Good Omens is about the only recent one I can think of that I actually liked and even that wasn't quite at the level of the book, while I either didn't get into or actively disliked the adaptions of The Expanse, Jack Reacher, and Wheel of Time despite liking the books (these three I gave up either at or before the end of the first season).
I would agree with the sentiment mentioned elsewhere in this thread that adapting these books is going to be hard due to internal monologue not translating well to screen, given how much it occurs that will be a challenge akin to trying to adapt footnote humour to the screen (i.e. hard to do at all let alone well).
Murderbot being cast as a cis white man is bad casting for the role. That isn't bad form to point out, it's accurate criticism that's based on the books - medium brown skin tone, lean build and...
Murderbot being cast as a cis white man is bad casting for the role. That isn't bad form to point out, it's accurate criticism that's based on the books - medium brown skin tone, lean build and assumed to be/pretending to be a woman when it pretends to be an augmented human. (Correction: Martha Wells noted the specifics about its appearance in a blog comment, not in the narrative.)
It suggests a lack of understanding of the work - both the corporate rim itself and the people that live outside of it that Murderbot and ART work with. And it sets them in the back foot for convincing me they'll make a good adaptation.
Martha Wells has been explicit that AI revolt narratives are slave revolt narratives. She was quite intentional with her descriptions of her characters.
From where in the books are you sourcing this info? Or is this information that Martha Wells has provided outside of the books? Asking because I don't remember Murderbot's appearance being...
it's accurate criticism that's based on the books - medium brown skin tone, lean build and assumed to be/pretending to be a woman when it pretends to be an augmented human
From where in the books are you sourcing this info? Or is this information that Martha Wells has provided outside of the books?
Asking because I don't remember Murderbot's appearance being described at all.
Ninja edit: This seems to be the source of the "medium brown skin tone" and "lean build" description:
Between Eden and Rin, one of those personas, other characters called Murderbot in that persona "she." I'd have to go back and confirm which persona it was, though it uses Rin longer. I'll be...
Between Eden and Rin, one of those personas, other characters called Murderbot in that persona "she." I'd have to go back and confirm which persona it was, though it uses Rin longer.
I'll be honest I'd seen the WoG from Martha so long ago that I truly did not remember it was from her blog not from the narrative. So that's on me. But I think it speaks to her intent clearly as she writes the character regardless. As does the narrative itself!
Here is the text of a keynote speech she gave, where she cites Anne Leckie as well on how AI/robot stories are about slavery and often slave rebellions.
And while it's certainly possible to cast the character as basically any race or gender, it's the least interesting choice (and least true to the narrative choice) to put a Skarsgard there.
I will be pleasantly surprised if the series is any good, but not due to any lack of effort or casting choices - it just seems to me like a very difficult series to adapt while keeping the spirit...
I will be pleasantly surprised if the series is any good, but not due to any lack of effort or casting choices - it just seems to me like a very difficult series to adapt while keeping the spirit of the books.
For me at least, the joy of books comes from hearing the inner workings of Murderbot's thoughts, and the contrast between their internal and external worlds. The internal character is dry, funny, cynical, shy, and optimistic, but the external character, the one they present to those around them, is 'Murderbot': a front they put on to protect themselves because they know it is what their contract holders expect to see.
It's such a fun layer of irony! It is in my opinion what defines the tone of the series and makes the books such an enjoyable read, but I have no idea how you capture that internal world in the medium of a TV show. I'm sure it's possible but it seems...harder. Much, much harder.
If all we see is the external character, we might still get an engaging plot and characters and world, but much of what I love about the books will be absent.
Also to jump into what some people have been saying about casting: I feel similarly that this choice does not at all match with my inner visualisation of the character, which I saw as being a much more androgynous and probably skewing more fem than masc. That said, depending on how they choose to present the character, I don't see it going against anything in the books which don't mention anything about Murderbot's appearance because they (Murderbot) don't care about their appearance.
I'm hopeful this will end up good. I love the Murderbot books. Agreed with all the others that have said it will be hard to pull the best parts of the narrative (inner monologue) into a television...
I'm hopeful this will end up good. I love the Murderbot books. Agreed with all the others that have said it will be hard to pull the best parts of the narrative (inner monologue) into a television show.
I think that Skarsgård is a good middle ground for the character though. He's significantly better than a beefcake Schwarzeneggeresque like that guy that plays Reacher. Is it a perfect casting? Probably not, but I think this is a role that would be very hard to get a "perfect" actor for.
That said, this typo really stood out to me in the second paragraph "Shortcut’s Johnny Five" -- the movie is Short Circuit!
I thought the Murderbot books often read like TV scripts, so it shouldn't be a huge leap. Many scenes ended with a quip, emotional shocker or a cliff hanger. That kind of thing tends to work well...
I thought the Murderbot books often read like TV scripts, so it shouldn't be a huge leap. Many scenes ended with a quip, emotional shocker or a cliff hanger. That kind of thing tends to work well on TV.
My first experience with Murderbot Diaries was with the Kevin Free audiobooks, so that’s been the voice I’ve heard the character as, bias on the table. My personal take is that the character of Murderbot is a hard cast, especially if you want star power, so I don’t necessarily begrudge them for going with a safer casting choice for a high concept adaptation no one has heard of. I’m way more interested in how they’re going to translate tone since Murderbot is in its head so much and that doesn’t really translate well to television, unless the show-runners are playing up the contrast between quiet killer robot to the rest of the ensemble, and the TV addict, work a day SecUnit who’s the only one who knows what’s its doing when it has the narrative focus.
Poor form going straight to criticising the casting due to their skin colour and gender, that doesn't make me look upon the author favourably.
The actor does seem pretty generic looking which I think is suitable for the role - Murderbot would be miscast IMO with distinctive features or anything that'd make them stand out in a crowd (when wearing clothes of course). I personally had the impression of a more androgynous look but I guess I can live with that.
I wouldn't hold high hopes for an adaption getting things right though given I rarely like TV/movie adaptions of books. Good Omens is about the only recent one I can think of that I actually liked and even that wasn't quite at the level of the book, while I either didn't get into or actively disliked the adaptions of The Expanse, Jack Reacher, and Wheel of Time despite liking the books (these three I gave up either at or before the end of the first season).
I would agree with the sentiment mentioned elsewhere in this thread that adapting these books is going to be hard due to internal monologue not translating well to screen, given how much it occurs that will be a challenge akin to trying to adapt footnote humour to the screen (i.e. hard to do at all let alone well).
Murderbot being cast as a cis white man is bad casting for the role. That isn't bad form to point out, it's accurate criticism that's based on the books - medium brown skin tone, lean build and assumed to be/pretending to be a woman when it pretends to be an augmented human. (Correction: Martha Wells noted the specifics about its appearance in a blog comment, not in the narrative.)
It suggests a lack of understanding of the work - both the corporate rim itself and the people that live outside of it that Murderbot and ART work with. And it sets them in the back foot for convincing me they'll make a good adaptation.
Martha Wells has been explicit that AI revolt narratives are slave revolt narratives. She was quite intentional with her descriptions of her characters.
From where in the books are you sourcing this info? Or is this information that Martha Wells has provided outside of the books?
Asking because I don't remember Murderbot's appearance being described at all.
Ninja edit: This seems to be the source of the "medium brown skin tone" and "lean build" description:
https://marthawells.dreamwidth.org/465015.html?thread=735351#cmt735351
I definitely don't remember Murderbot "pretending to be a woman" but that honestly might have just been a detail that I didn't catch.
Between Eden and Rin, one of those personas, other characters called Murderbot in that persona "she." I'd have to go back and confirm which persona it was, though it uses Rin longer.
I'll be honest I'd seen the WoG from Martha so long ago that I truly did not remember it was from her blog not from the narrative. So that's on me. But I think it speaks to her intent clearly as she writes the character regardless. As does the narrative itself!
Here is the text of a keynote speech she gave, where she cites Anne Leckie as well on how AI/robot stories are about slavery and often slave rebellions.
And while it's certainly possible to cast the character as basically any race or gender, it's the least interesting choice (and least true to the narrative choice) to put a Skarsgard there.
I will be pleasantly surprised if the series is any good, but not due to any lack of effort or casting choices - it just seems to me like a very difficult series to adapt while keeping the spirit of the books.
For me at least, the joy of books comes from hearing the inner workings of Murderbot's thoughts, and the contrast between their internal and external worlds. The internal character is dry, funny, cynical, shy, and optimistic, but the external character, the one they present to those around them, is 'Murderbot': a front they put on to protect themselves because they know it is what their contract holders expect to see.
It's such a fun layer of irony! It is in my opinion what defines the tone of the series and makes the books such an enjoyable read, but I have no idea how you capture that internal world in the medium of a TV show. I'm sure it's possible but it seems...harder. Much, much harder.
If all we see is the external character, we might still get an engaging plot and characters and world, but much of what I love about the books will be absent.
Also to jump into what some people have been saying about casting: I feel similarly that this choice does not at all match with my inner visualisation of the character, which I saw as being a much more androgynous and probably skewing more fem than masc. That said, depending on how they choose to present the character, I don't see it going against anything in the books which don't mention anything about Murderbot's appearance because they (Murderbot) don't care about their appearance.
I'm hopeful this will end up good. I love the Murderbot books. Agreed with all the others that have said it will be hard to pull the best parts of the narrative (inner monologue) into a television show.
I think that Skarsgård is a good middle ground for the character though. He's significantly better than a beefcake Schwarzeneggeresque like that guy that plays Reacher. Is it a perfect casting? Probably not, but I think this is a role that would be very hard to get a "perfect" actor for.
That said, this typo really stood out to me in the second paragraph "Shortcut’s Johnny Five" -- the movie is Short Circuit!
I thought the Murderbot books often read like TV scripts, so it shouldn't be a huge leap. Many scenes ended with a quip, emotional shocker or a cliff hanger. That kind of thing tends to work well on TV.