hydravion's recent activity

  1. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link
    After having read through about a hundred answers (here and elsewhere), here are some key takeaways: Why live this life and do anything at all if humanity is doomed to go extinct? My argument...

    After having read through about a hundred answers (here and elsewhere), here are some key takeaways:

    Why live this life and do anything at all if humanity is doomed to go extinct?

    • My argument about the extinction of humanity seems logical, but we could very well eventually find out that it is totally wrong. We may not be doomed to go extinct, which means that what we do wouldn't be for nothing, as humanity would keep benefitting from it perpetually.
    • We are at an extremely early stage of the advancement of science, when looking at it on a cosmic timescale. Over such a long time, we may well come to an understanding of the Universe that allows us to see past the limits I've outlined in my original post.
    • (Even if it's all for nothing, if we enjoy ourselves and we do not care that it's pointless, then it will not matter to us that it's all for nothing, as the fun we're having makes life worthwhile in and of itself. Also, if what we do impacts us positively right now, even if it's all for nothing ultimately, it will still matter to us as it won't be for nothing for as long as humanity still benefits from it.)

    Why live this life if the development of civilization will eventually lead to a life devoid of fulfilment and happiness?

    • This is not possible, because we'd either have the meaningful work of improving our situation (making ourselves fulfilled and happy), or we would be fulfilled and happy, even if there was no work left.
    • I have underestimated for how long one can remain fulfilled with hobbies alone, given that one has enough hobbies. One could spend the rest of their lives doing a handful of hobbies (e.g., travelling, painting, reading non-fiction, reading fiction, playing games) and they would not have enough time to exhaust all of these hobbies.
    • We would not get bored of a given food, book, movie, game, etc., because we could cycle through a large number of them, and by the time we reach the end of the cycle (if we ever do), then we will have forgotten the taste of the first foods and the stories of the first books and movies. Even if we didn't forget the taste of the first foods, we would not have eaten them frequently at all, so we would not have gotten bored of them. Also, there can be a lot of variation within a game like Chess or Go. We might get bored of Chess itself, but then we could simply cycle through several games (or more generally hobbies), and come back to the first game with renewed eagerness to play after some time has passed.
    • One day we may have the technology to change our nature and alter our minds to not feel bored, make us forget things on demand, increase our happiness, and remove negative feelings.

    Recommended readings (from the commenters)

    • Deep Utopia: Life and Meaning in a Solved World by Nick Bostrom
    • The Fun Theory Sequence by Eliezer Yudkowski
    • The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch
    • Into the Cool by Eric D. Schneider and Dorion Sagan
    • Permutation City by Greg Egan
    • Diaspora by Greg Egan
    • Accelerando by Charles Stross
    • The Last Question By Isaac Asimov
    • The Culture series by Iain M. Banks
    • Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom by Cory Doctorow
    • The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus
    • Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
    • This Life: Secular Faith and Spiritual Freedom by Martin Hägglund
    • Uncaused cause arguments
    • The Meaningness website (recommended starting point) by David Chapman
    • Optimistic Nihilism (video) by Kurzgesagt
    2 votes
  2. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    In my view, the final state, if it was extinction, would render all of what came before it meaningless. Why do you not see it that way?

    In my view, the final state, if it was extinction, would render all of what came before it meaningless. Why do you not see it that way?

    1 vote
  3. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    Thank you for sharing, and for the support, too.

    Thank you for sharing, and for the support, too.

    1 vote
  4. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    That's an interesting take, thanks for sharing.

    That's an interesting take, thanks for sharing.

  5. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    Honestly this sounds like a very interesting book. Would you mind giving me a reference? Thank you for your answer and your advice.

    Honestly this sounds like a very interesting book. Would you mind giving me a reference?

    Thank you for your answer and your advice.

  6. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I did not know that, thanks for sharing. I think part of the problem is also that a depressed person tends to have a very flawed and skewed judgement on things (at least it seems to me).

    I did not know that, thanks for sharing. I think part of the problem is also that a depressed person tends to have a very flawed and skewed judgement on things (at least it seems to me).

    2 votes
  7. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    Ah okay, I better understand. They may have had fulfilling lives, but I'm not sure how if they believed we were going to come to an end. I find it much easier believing the opposite, but that...

    Ah okay, I better understand. They may have had fulfilling lives, but I'm not sure how if they believed we were going to come to an end. I find it much easier believing the opposite, but that could just be me.

    By the way, I appreciate the honest, straightforward way you have approached this question, including awarding deltas

    Thank you friend!

  8. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    This book seems like quite a challenging read, but it also seems immensely interesting. Thank you for recommending it. I don't think I've understood what you meant by power-based entities, but I...

    This book seems like quite a challenging read, but it also seems immensely interesting. Thank you for recommending it. I don't think I've understood what you meant by power-based entities, but I guess reading the book would clarify things for me. Thanks again!

  9. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    In a sense, yes, if we're going to be here anyway, we might as well try and live well. My point was that, if ultimately nothing matters, as the end result would be the same, it would ultimately...

    In a sense, yes, if we're going to be here anyway, we might as well try and live well. My point was that, if ultimately nothing matters, as the end result would be the same, it would ultimately not really matter if we did or did not live well.

  10. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I don't think that this is absurd. We can come to terms with the fact that everything we do in life is pointless and still enjoy life, but that wouldn't make life any less pointless. I think that...

    I don't think that this is absurd. We can come to terms with the fact that everything we do in life is pointless and still enjoy life, but that wouldn't make life any less pointless.

    I think that something can be immediately not pointless to a person who values that thing, but still be ultimately pointless. For me, as a person who deeply values life being not pointless, the latter overshadows the former.

    2 votes
  11. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I think that while the majority of people's lives wouldn't directly make an impact on such a scale, it would still play a role in the sense that they are part of a global economy that powers the...

    I think that while the majority of people's lives wouldn't directly make an impact on such a scale, it would still play a role in the sense that they are part of a global economy that powers the development of civilization. Even if they do not directly impact the future of humanity in a significant way, they help those who do do that, as they would need a functioning economy to get things done. These people can range from the entrepreneur building rockets to send people to other planets to the scientist whose vital work is funded by the taxpayers.

  12. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I am not sure I see why that would be the case... If in the end, humanity is just gone, it wouldn't really matter if people were happy or miserable, ultimately. I suppose it would be better if the...

    And if you do see a difference, the difference is relevant even on the smallest time scales.

    I am not sure I see why that would be the case... If in the end, humanity is just gone, it wouldn't really matter if people were happy or miserable, ultimately.

    Doesn't it matter if the overall painting is good or bad?

    I suppose it would be better if the painting was good, but my gripe was that it wouldn't really matter if there was nobody left to look at the painting.

    1 vote
  13. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    (edited )
    Link Parent
    I thought that was the case, but some commenters have made the point that since we are at a very early stage of the advancement of science, we are not in a position to assess whether or not we are...

    Like, no argument here can disprove that

    I thought that was the case, but some commenters have made the point that since we are at a very early stage of the advancement of science, we are not in a position to assess whether or not we are doomed to go extinct.

    we might get bored when we get all of those things done, but we are nowhere close to achieving those goals

    Whether or not we are close to achieving these goals does not matter, as the argument I made would stand regardless. I did not mean to disregard the experience of people still suffering today.

    I do not mind dying, rather I care that the life we live be not pointless.

  14. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I didn't mean that I personally had to greatly impact humanity's future, rather that what we humans as a whole did in this world may be for nothing if we were going to go extinct anyway.

    I didn't mean that I personally had to greatly impact humanity's future, rather that what we humans as a whole did in this world may be for nothing if we were going to go extinct anyway.

  15. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    For some reason, I deeply care that life be useful. This is probably the root cause of why I felt distressed.

    For some reason, I deeply care that life be useful. This is probably the root cause of why I felt distressed.

    1 vote
  16. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    Thank you for your care and empathy. I must say that I was not feeling too well a few days ago, but thanks to the discussions I've had here and on reddit, I now feel so much better. This really...

    Thank you for your care and empathy. I must say that I was not feeling too well a few days ago, but thanks to the discussions I've had here and on reddit, I now feel so much better. This really helped changing my perspective on these issues. Thanks again.

    I was not really sure that humanity would go extinct, but I could not see how it could survive indefinitely, so I assumed that it wouldn't. Some commenters have helped me see how it was premature to come to that conclusion at this stage in our history.

    Thank you for the book recommendations. Permutation City has already been mentioned a few times here and on reddit. It sounds like it has an interesting plot.

    2 votes
  17. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    You're right that we can probably keep ourselves occupied with hobbies for way longer than I first imagined. I was worried that we would eventually get bored of everything over a few decades...

    You're right that we can probably keep ourselves occupied with hobbies for way longer than I first imagined. I was worried that we would eventually get bored of everything over a few decades (because of how our hobbies would become too repetitive), but I was probably wrong thinking that.

    1 vote
  18. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    What I was trying to say is that if the end state is the same no matter what, then what comes before it ultimately does not matter in the long run.

    What I was trying to say is that if the end state is the same no matter what, then what comes before it ultimately does not matter in the long run.

    1 vote
  19. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    Thanks for the recommendation. You're right that our current knowledge is still very limited and that we may well one day find solutions to my concerns.

    Thanks for the recommendation. You're right that our current knowledge is still very limited and that we may well one day find solutions to my concerns.

  20. Comment on CMV: Once civilization is fully developed, life will be unfulfilling and boring. Humanity is also doomed to go extinct. These two reasons make life not worth living. in ~talk

    hydravion
    Link Parent
    I completely agree with you, but the idea that it could be all for nothing in the end did not sit well with me. Thankfully I've been given counterarguments to put that to rest.

    I completely agree with you, but the idea that it could be all for nothing in the end did not sit well with me. Thankfully I've been given counterarguments to put that to rest.

    1 vote