A lot to say here, but my general thought is that Attack on Titan is more massive clusterfuck with some problematic themes than outright fascist. You're not alone in being confused OP, I've seen...
A lot to say here, but my general thought is that Attack on Titan is more massive clusterfuck with some problematic themes than outright fascist.
You're not alone in being confused OP, I've seen the first season of the show and read the manga through what I believe is the third season, and I honestly don't understand or remember half the stuff the article is talking about. I think it's really hard to draw a coherent theme from the series when so much of the plot is confusing and muddled.
There are clearly some fascist themes in the series, mostly notably how incredibly pro-military it is. Probably the biggest single point in favor of the "AoT is fascisty" argument is that the man characters stage a military coup of the government. There's also the general theme of "violence and strength is all that matters" and a really, really big emphasis that only through strength can the characters accomplish anything. And how the characters have a strong motivating force as the desire to expand beyond the walls of their city. There's also the German theming and fascist looking uniforms which further give the impression that there's a weird obsession with the military.
However, I think it's important to also note how anti-tyranny AoT is. A consistent major theme for the main characters is atrocities committed by the government. One of the big points in the early parts of the story is how the government and the military basically killed all of the poor people in order to prevent over-crowding.
Overall, I think the series can't really be viewed through a lens of Western fascism. It's much more a rejection of monarchy and non-merit based government rule than it is a rejection of liberalism. It has some strong fascist themes, but they play out as more pro-military and pro "might-makes-right" than anything else. I'd also argue that the plot elements come from a desire to have crazy twists than a desire to espouse any ideas. It's fascist-coding, not fascist allegory.
I'm only watching the show, so I'm not going to read the article (thanks @NeoTheFox). Apologies if this is mentioned there, but to your point on the Western lens of fascism - I agree. I do recall...
I'm only watching the show, so I'm not going to read the article (thanks @NeoTheFox). Apologies if this is mentioned there, but to your point on the Western lens of fascism - I agree. I do recall seeing some conversation online about this a few years ago and I believe the creator somewhat copped to it in an interview, essentially saying he'd been thinking about Islamist terrorism and Japan's possible response to any attack, or their likely lack thereof, and it inspired the themes of AoT. Now, I definitely can't dig that up, and I could well be misremembering, so treat that as hearsay, but it's definitely worth keeping Japan's own history with nationalism, as well as their post-war JSDF/non-military stance, in mind when interpreting AoT.
Ok, for anyone who clicked this and is still watching the show (like I've been), the author is reading manga, so here is your spoiler warning. Guess I should've seen that coming.
Ok, for anyone who clicked this and is still watching the show (like I've been), the author is reading manga, so here is your spoiler warning. Guess I should've seen that coming.
I would say there are definitely more problematic tropes in anime. In my history of watching anime, there have only been three times where I've put down a series because I've been uncomfortable...
I would say there are definitely more problematic tropes in anime.
In my history of watching anime, there have only been three times where I've put down a series because I've been uncomfortable with the material.
The first was Sword Art Online, a badly written VRMMORPG tale which started out as a light novel by Reki Kawahara. The second (Fairy Dance) arc focuses around an incestuous subplot where Suguha develops romantic feelings for the protagonist (her cousin.) The problem is that A-1 Pictures slip in as much inappropriate fanservice as possible, so in every single scene where they explore why Suguha's feelings are wrong, they just have to put in a close up of her chest, thighs or butt. It's even more unsettling when Suguha is only 14 at the time of the arc's events.
The moment that made me put down SAO entirely was Episode 24, when Kirito was brought down by gravity magic by Oberon while he gropes and molests his captive girlfriend in front of him. That was the point where I refused to watch any more.
The second anime I put down was Eromanga Sensei, another A-1 Pictures production exploring a young writer's difficult relationship with his younger sister who just so happens to draw lewd art. Of course they handle it just as tastelessly as they did with Sword Art Online's Fairy Dance arc. Unlike with SAO there was no particular moment where this show crossed the line. I had just had enough only two episodes in because I was weary from SAO.
The final one was Goblin Slayer. The opening episode just takes the cake in terms of shock value, even to the point of depicting a goblin gang rape scene.
Yeah, I'm not sure where the anime is relative to where I stopped reading the manga, but this was 100% the reason for me and I haven't been at all surprised by the issue becoming more of a noticed...
Yeah, I'm not sure where the anime is relative to where I stopped reading the manga, but this was 100% the reason for me and I haven't been at all surprised by the issue becoming more of a noticed thing and part of the conversation around the series. It went more and more from "clumsy use of fashy aesthetics and allegory in a story not really about those things" to reading as Nazi apologism...as I remember it, mostly a lot of "both sides"ing along with the fucked up twisted allegory that goes in multiple directions and is purposely hard to untangle...but it appeared to be getting worse and I just couldn't take it anymore.
I was totally willing to find an excuse or an "out" where I wouldn't feel shitty about it, I just never did. A shame to see such a great story for other reasons crash and burn like that.
An interesting read, although I've never watched Attack on Titan so the summary of events was... mildly confusing. I'm interested in what people who've actually watched the show think about this.
An interesting read, although I've never watched Attack on Titan so the summary of events was... mildly confusing. I'm interested in what people who've actually watched the show think about this.
A lot to say here, but my general thought is that Attack on Titan is more massive clusterfuck with some problematic themes than outright fascist.
You're not alone in being confused OP, I've seen the first season of the show and read the manga through what I believe is the third season, and I honestly don't understand or remember half the stuff the article is talking about. I think it's really hard to draw a coherent theme from the series when so much of the plot is confusing and muddled.
There are clearly some fascist themes in the series, mostly notably how incredibly pro-military it is. Probably the biggest single point in favor of the "AoT is fascisty" argument is that the man characters stage a military coup of the government. There's also the general theme of "violence and strength is all that matters" and a really, really big emphasis that only through strength can the characters accomplish anything. And how the characters have a strong motivating force as the desire to expand beyond the walls of their city. There's also the German theming and fascist looking uniforms which further give the impression that there's a weird obsession with the military.
However, I think it's important to also note how anti-tyranny AoT is. A consistent major theme for the main characters is atrocities committed by the government. One of the big points in the early parts of the story is how the government and the military basically killed all of the poor people in order to prevent over-crowding.
Overall, I think the series can't really be viewed through a lens of Western fascism. It's much more a rejection of monarchy and non-merit based government rule than it is a rejection of liberalism. It has some strong fascist themes, but they play out as more pro-military and pro "might-makes-right" than anything else. I'd also argue that the plot elements come from a desire to have crazy twists than a desire to espouse any ideas. It's fascist-coding, not fascist allegory.
I'm only watching the show, so I'm not going to read the article (thanks @NeoTheFox). Apologies if this is mentioned there, but to your point on the Western lens of fascism - I agree. I do recall seeing some conversation online about this a few years ago and I believe the creator somewhat copped to it in an interview, essentially saying he'd been thinking about Islamist terrorism and Japan's possible response to any attack, or their likely lack thereof, and it inspired the themes of AoT. Now, I definitely can't dig that up, and I could well be misremembering, so treat that as hearsay, but it's definitely worth keeping Japan's own history with nationalism, as well as their post-war JSDF/non-military stance, in mind when interpreting AoT.
Ok, for anyone who clicked this and is still watching the show (like I've been), the author is reading manga, so here is your spoiler warning. Guess I should've seen that coming.
I would say there are definitely more problematic tropes in anime.
In my history of watching anime, there have only been three times where I've put down a series because I've been uncomfortable with the material.
The first was Sword Art Online, a badly written VRMMORPG tale which started out as a light novel by Reki Kawahara. The second (Fairy Dance) arc focuses around an incestuous subplot where Suguha develops romantic feelings for the protagonist (her cousin.) The problem is that A-1 Pictures slip in as much inappropriate fanservice as possible, so in every single scene where they explore why Suguha's feelings are wrong, they just have to put in a close up of her chest, thighs or butt. It's even more unsettling when Suguha is only 14 at the time of the arc's events.
The moment that made me put down SAO entirely was Episode 24, when Kirito was brought down by gravity magic by Oberon while he gropes and molests his captive girlfriend in front of him. That was the point where I refused to watch any more.
The second anime I put down was Eromanga Sensei, another A-1 Pictures production exploring a young writer's difficult relationship with his younger sister who just so happens to draw lewd art. Of course they handle it just as tastelessly as they did with Sword Art Online's Fairy Dance arc. Unlike with SAO there was no particular moment where this show crossed the line. I had just had enough only two episodes in because I was weary from SAO.
The final one was Goblin Slayer. The opening episode just takes the cake in terms of shock value, even to the point of depicting a goblin gang rape scene.
Yeah, I'm not sure where the anime is relative to where I stopped reading the manga, but this was 100% the reason for me and I haven't been at all surprised by the issue becoming more of a noticed thing and part of the conversation around the series. It went more and more from "clumsy use of fashy aesthetics and allegory in a story not really about those things" to reading as Nazi apologism...as I remember it, mostly a lot of "both sides"ing along with the fucked up twisted allegory that goes in multiple directions and is purposely hard to untangle...but it appeared to be getting worse and I just couldn't take it anymore.
I was totally willing to find an excuse or an "out" where I wouldn't feel shitty about it, I just never did. A shame to see such a great story for other reasons crash and burn like that.
An interesting read, although I've never watched Attack on Titan so the summary of events was... mildly confusing. I'm interested in what people who've actually watched the show think about this.