I teach programming to university students and research the same (the learning more than the coding) - both of these are doing good things for people learning to code... but unfortunately both of...
I teach programming to university students and research the same (the learning more than the coding) - both of these are doing good things for people learning to code... but unfortunately both of them still suck really badly for anyone who might actually need them. (and yes 'still' - the BBC Bit is still kicking, as the BBC Micro Bit which operates in a somewhat similar space to the Arduino or Raspberry Pi)
There exists a sort of person who can learn programming on their own steam. This is the person who can pick up a textbook, play around on the command line and learn from their mistakes, and learn to code that way. That person can learn from Codecademy and from BBC Bit and whatever else - but that person doesn't really need those to do it.
There exists another sort of person who needs to be taught. (There's the possibility of a third group that can't be taught, but I haven't met any yet). This group cannot learn effectively from things like Codecademy in isolation, and trying to do so actually does very bad things - we see a significant level of the 'I'm an idiot and I can't code' mentality springing from people (who are in the first group) telling them 'do codecademy, it's easy and you learn a lot', though that's not really a specific dig at codecademy, it's also 'just go and read Automating The Boring Stuff etc etc etc' - and it just doesn't work for those people. What makes Codecademy worse is they position themselves (as any profit loving company would) as a universal solution. And they're not. And watching people shit on themselves because they 'can't do it' is just so completely depressing when what these kids actually NEED is to spend time with people who can properly teach instead of just react like a dumb machine. It gets me so angry when I dwell on it - no you can't replace a teacher with a goddamn computer, and this is coming from someone who loves computers.
There is a student I am involved in teaching at the moment that did Codecademy while they were on a gap year after high school, and decided that because they 'couldn't do it' that they 'couldn't learn to code' and went into a different field. Thankfully that field was business and they were forced to take an intro to programming unit. That student has now published their first conference paper on algorithms in an A ranked conference after just 4 years in the field. Because what they needed was for someone to look at their code, listen to what they said, and TEACH them.
Look at that, I got angry and ranted. But god damn do I hate the way codecademy advertises themselves like they're the shit. They're edutainment.
My stance on platforms like codecademy is that they're not particularly good for learning about programming fundamentals, but they're great for learning about the basics of a specific programming...
My stance on platforms like codecademy is that they're not particularly good for learning about programming fundamentals, but they're great for learning about the basics of a specific programming language. I wouldn't discount the value of the latter just because of the lack of the former, but I'll agree that it drives me nuts that they still sell themselves as the former.
The problem is that the only people that think Codeacademy is a good idea are beginners that really need a lot more than they can offer.
My stance on platforms like codecademy is that they're not particularly good for learning about programming fundamentals, but they're great for learning about the basics of a specific programming language.
The problem is that the only people that think Codeacademy is a good idea are beginners that really need a lot more than they can offer.
I am exactly the person you are talking about, I have previously tried "learn coding to make your life easier\Learn coding in 1 month" courses. Everytime I will get confused and frustrated and end...
I am exactly the person you are talking about, I have previously tried "learn coding to make your life easier\Learn coding in 1 month" courses. Everytime I will get confused and frustrated and end up droping the whole thing regretting the time and effort I put in. But recently I addressed these problems in one post and found out there are a lot of people like me. some of these people who got around this problem suggested me this site which uses a primitive way of teaching (atleast for me). Im through 1st chapter and Im excited for 2nd. Im also prepared for uncomfortableness which may come in the near future.
I've seen that one a few times over the years, and it is even worse for a beginner - because it doesn't have any 'doing' to it - programming isn't anything to do with learning how something works...
I've seen that one a few times over the years, and it is even worse for a beginner - because it doesn't have any 'doing' to it - programming isn't anything to do with learning how something works and then taking a rote quiz on it, it's about getting your hands dirty with actual programming. Now, some people will go out and do their own activities, and come out of the end knowing quite a bit. But most people will do only a little if any, and will quite often get themselves into trouble picking the wrong things to try and do and end up convincing themselves 'they can't' just as easily.
Find yourself some way of getting a human programming teacher - whether that's a uni degree, or a TAFE/Community college short course, or anything in between, this is quite literally an area where there is not a damn thing better than a human. Once you've done a bit and got a language win under your belt the rest of what you need to learn is REALLY easy relative to the first bit.
In my personal experience, Codeacademy is buggy and super slow. It also teaches nothing about making stuff actually work on your computer or production server. Programming is not just about logic...
In my personal experience, Codeacademy is buggy and super slow. It also teaches nothing about making stuff actually work on your computer or production server. Programming is not just about logic and syntax but also understanding the operating systems and machines you are going to work with. It's like learning how to drive on a simulator... you might get some basics from it, but to really learn you gotta get on the road.
I have a personal theory about teaching computer programming: the best instructors will eventually become Donald Knuth. The thing that most people get wrong about programming is that it's a part...
I have a personal theory about teaching computer programming: the best instructors will eventually become Donald Knuth.
The thing that most people get wrong about programming is that it's a part of a greater field called Computer Science. And just like all science, your understanding is limited to how well you understand the fundamentals that prop it up. You can make a javascript app to do an arbitrary task fairly easily, but when performance becomes an issue you will have little recourse because the system you wrote it for is so far abstracted from reality.
I teach programming to university students and research the same (the learning more than the coding) - both of these are doing good things for people learning to code... but unfortunately both of them still suck really badly for anyone who might actually need them. (and yes 'still' - the BBC Bit is still kicking, as the BBC Micro Bit which operates in a somewhat similar space to the Arduino or Raspberry Pi)
There exists a sort of person who can learn programming on their own steam. This is the person who can pick up a textbook, play around on the command line and learn from their mistakes, and learn to code that way. That person can learn from Codecademy and from BBC Bit and whatever else - but that person doesn't really need those to do it.
There exists another sort of person who needs to be taught. (There's the possibility of a third group that can't be taught, but I haven't met any yet). This group cannot learn effectively from things like Codecademy in isolation, and trying to do so actually does very bad things - we see a significant level of the 'I'm an idiot and I can't code' mentality springing from people (who are in the first group) telling them 'do codecademy, it's easy and you learn a lot', though that's not really a specific dig at codecademy, it's also 'just go and read Automating The Boring Stuff etc etc etc' - and it just doesn't work for those people. What makes Codecademy worse is they position themselves (as any profit loving company would) as a universal solution. And they're not. And watching people shit on themselves because they 'can't do it' is just so completely depressing when what these kids actually NEED is to spend time with people who can properly teach instead of just react like a dumb machine. It gets me so angry when I dwell on it - no you can't replace a teacher with a goddamn computer, and this is coming from someone who loves computers.
There is a student I am involved in teaching at the moment that did Codecademy while they were on a gap year after high school, and decided that because they 'couldn't do it' that they 'couldn't learn to code' and went into a different field. Thankfully that field was business and they were forced to take an intro to programming unit. That student has now published their first conference paper on algorithms in an A ranked conference after just 4 years in the field. Because what they needed was for someone to look at their code, listen to what they said, and TEACH them.
Look at that, I got angry and ranted. But god damn do I hate the way codecademy advertises themselves like they're the shit. They're edutainment.
My stance on platforms like codecademy is that they're not particularly good for learning about programming fundamentals, but they're great for learning about the basics of a specific programming language. I wouldn't discount the value of the latter just because of the lack of the former, but I'll agree that it drives me nuts that they still sell themselves as the former.
The problem is that the only people that think Codeacademy is a good idea are beginners that really need a lot more than they can offer.
You're right. This is a pretty significant problem.
I am exactly the person you are talking about, I have previously tried "learn coding to make your life easier\Learn coding in 1 month" courses. Everytime I will get confused and frustrated and end up droping the whole thing regretting the time and effort I put in. But recently I addressed these problems in one post and found out there are a lot of people like me. some of these people who got around this problem suggested me this site which uses a primitive way of teaching (atleast for me). Im through 1st chapter and Im excited for 2nd. Im also prepared for uncomfortableness which may come in the near future.
I've seen that one a few times over the years, and it is even worse for a beginner - because it doesn't have any 'doing' to it - programming isn't anything to do with learning how something works and then taking a rote quiz on it, it's about getting your hands dirty with actual programming. Now, some people will go out and do their own activities, and come out of the end knowing quite a bit. But most people will do only a little if any, and will quite often get themselves into trouble picking the wrong things to try and do and end up convincing themselves 'they can't' just as easily.
Find yourself some way of getting a human programming teacher - whether that's a uni degree, or a TAFE/Community college short course, or anything in between, this is quite literally an area where there is not a damn thing better than a human. Once you've done a bit and got a language win under your belt the rest of what you need to learn is REALLY easy relative to the first bit.
In my personal experience, Codeacademy is buggy and super slow. It also teaches nothing about making stuff actually work on your computer or production server. Programming is not just about logic and syntax but also understanding the operating systems and machines you are going to work with. It's like learning how to drive on a simulator... you might get some basics from it, but to really learn you gotta get on the road.
I have a personal theory about teaching computer programming: the best instructors will eventually become Donald Knuth.
The thing that most people get wrong about programming is that it's a part of a greater field called Computer Science. And just like all science, your understanding is limited to how well you understand the fundamentals that prop it up. You can make a javascript app to do an arbitrary task fairly easily, but when performance becomes an issue you will have little recourse because the system you wrote it for is so far abstracted from reality.
Here is an archive of the first mentioned "alarming" documentary: Now The Chips Are Down.
Similarly, here is the Computer Literacy Project itself.