Let's play "Critique the Critique"
There's a really awesome thread on constructive criticism with a lot of thoughtful insight about the process. What makes criticism helpful? What causes more harm than good? What's the best way to go about asking for a critique?
I wanted to play a little game where we can turn the tables on the process and examine what makes critiques tick. At the same time, it'll give folks a chance to share some of their creations. The idea is to critique the critiques based off of how the requests are presented.
To quote @silva-rerum from the other thread,
Context and empathy are both incredibly important when it comes to the delivery and impact of creative criticism. Most people who deliver critiques while failing to contextualize or understand their recipient’s perspective will be engaging in an exercise in futility at best, or an act of cruelty at worst.
I think it would be a fun exercise to experiment with how much context can affect how good or bad a critique is.
Rules:
Content
Content should be something of your own, whether it's writing, music, physical works, visual, or whatever. If you made it and you're down to post it for some criticism, it fits.
Context
It's entirely up to you what kind of context you'd like to provide. The game is about finding what works and what doesn't, and context can play a huge factor in the quality of the critique. If you want to try to see what kind of criticism zero-context requests elicit, post your work with zero context. Alternatively, you can see what kind of critique you get from high-context, specifically targeted feedback requests.
(If you haven't read through some of the ideas in the other thread, check it out before posting. There really are some great insights in there even if you aren't planning on posting anything.)
Critiques
Perform your critiques for others as you normally would. Obviously, keep it civil. Multiple people can offer their critiques for each item up for critique. Since we're playing around with different degrees of context, try to critique on a case-by-case basis. That is, if you have more context for a critique than is proffered, try your best to set that extra context aside. There may be fudge-factor involved with that, but I think we can still end up with some interesting results.
Counter-critiques
Counter-critiques are open to all! It will definitely be helpful to hear from the creator how helpful or hurtful the critique was. If other people have input or questions, discuss away!
Side note: I don't think I've ever typed/thought the word "critique" so much in my life.
I'll put together some stuff I've worked on recently to get thing started.
And an unfinished watercolour painting. Not sure in what direction I want to take it.
I love those tones. The soft detail leads my imagination in a lot of different directions, and the overall scene reminds me of a lot of familiar places. There's definitely some space up front for some sort of subject, though I have a hard time recommending what that could be. I think a rock or shrub would just obscure the scene too much. Hints of household objects might be able to reveal some sort of story, but it might be hard to maintain a balance between the level of detail required to depict something like that and the level of the detail in the rest of the scene. The sky is a bit "blown out" (like it's used in photography to mean overexposed). I see an appealing hint of detail about halfway between the dormer and the tree, and I actually really like that. Making the sky too dark or saturated would make the rest of the scene seem too unreal. I've never been any good at watercolor though. Would love to see more if you have any!
edit: I responded without seeing your additional context above. Kinda glad because after reading it I can tell that it definitely would have affected my approach a bit. I'll respond that one separately.
Wow, great work so far! I live in a place kinda like this, and it immediately felt familiar. The overall composition works really well; my eye was guided down from the sky, toward that beautiful tree on the right, across the bushes and yard, and up toward the front of the house (I love the way you did the slats on the front of the roof).
The left side of the house feels a little empty compared to all the stuff going on in the right side of the painting, though. The boundary between the house and the ground also jumps out as being a bit wiggly. Doing a bit more on the side of the house or next to the house along the ground might help break up the boundary and make the composition feel more balanced.
Thank you for your response! <3 You're absolutely correct about the emptiness of form and detail in the bottom right. And I appreciate the attention you've given to the flow. It's an area that I notice in photography and totally space in my watercolours.
I originally was going to use my pieces to illustrate the difference between no context and lots of context. I would love to have any additional thoughts after~
I started painting this piece about 16 years ago. It's in the Slide Rock state park in Cococino county, Arizona, US. I took a photo for reference, but I can't find it now.
I got to this point and got stuck. Not because I was without reference, but because the reference was limited and I didn't know how to make the jump from what was there to art. I chickened out.
I can't let it go. Even when I burned most of my work when my marriage was destructing, I wanted to finish this. Now I finally feel ready to attack it whether it succeeds or fails.
So, looking at it now getting on two decades from the person I was, these are my thoughts:
-The sky is washed out. It makes things feel hot and burned away. Is the idea of that sort of heat compelling, or will a brilliant blue be more striking? Which will express the unlimited relief and flight of the person I am now?
-the detail below the house needs to be filled in. Do I go very dense to ground the house to the earth? Do I put just enough keep the house from being a mirage? Do I consider the house to be a dock or a launching pad or a chain?
-the details of the house are concrete. The details of the foliage are loose. Will people like the contrast? Will it bother them if it is not uniform? It doesn't bother me, but I would like there to be the crisp, hot, open, lofty feel of the place without the pain of what I was going through at the time. A feel of both transientness and eternity. What will get me there?
And as always, I want each person to find their own meaning; their own self in it. Will this information help? :)
Fire Elemental - glass sculpture
Apart from the haze in the color and some curves that could be improved, I feel like I should like this piece but it just isn't doing it for me. Do you have examples of similar work that might inspire improvements of this form? Additionally, since my next few pieces will be in the theme of elementals, is there any imagery you could recommend for water, air, or earth?
Oo, a glass sculpture! It's hard to critique an artform when you don't know much about it, but apparently I'm going to try anyway. :D
My thought was that the flames felt more like tentacles to me-- which might be what you're going for, since it's an elemental. But my impression of fire is more of flames swirling around and in on each other, not quite so separated. If that makes sense. (I tried looking for examples of what I mean, but came up short...)
I have no idea if it is possible, but when you mentioned air I sort of imagined lots of glass bubbles creating a figure of some sort.
OOOO! Not sure if I'm picturing what you intended with the glass bubbles, but that definitely gave me an idea of using a technique I haven't even thought of in ages. That helps a bunch!
I agree that it seems a bit too much like tentacles. I'm planning on trying something with the color that might help. I originally layered it wih orange as the base and a striking red (referring to glass type, not aesthetic value) on top. I'm hoping that if I kiln strike it a bit, and maybe use the hand torch a bit around the base of the orange bits, that it'll darken up and blend a little better while still keeping orange on the tips.
So whether you know much about glass or not, that was still right in line with what I've been thinking, and the bit about air got me moving in a direction that I feel pretty good about for that one.
Yay, glad I could help! I'm really interested to see where your project goes :)
I really like the redish brown base. I think it could be really cool to tie that sort of shape into something for Earth. I'm imagining some sort of complex root system that just barely sends up a faint sprout.
Thanks dude! I don't want them to be too similar, but I wonder if maybe I could use that idea in a different way. Between your suggestions and @eladnarra's I definitely have some sketching to do.
I like this idea. I'm going to share a poem I wrote for the poetry slam thread. For context, I am by no means an expert poet. I have fairly thick skin, so definitely offer any insights you have.
Because I could not stop for Death (Part II)
Because I could not stop for Death,
impatient did He grow.
Said I, "My Friend, the Dawn is here,
and there are Fields to sow."
He let out a sigh -- He took off his Cloak
And admired his own Work:
Swellings on the Ground, aligned --
Each Roof finely marked.
Once more, I spoke -- through silent Retort,
"Surely, you must see,
that I've no time -- to spend my day --
in Eternity.
With tender grip, he led me on --
through Pasture, Coop, and Pen.
He led past Horse and Chick --
The Swine -- reveling in the Pen.
We paused before the Field, once bare --
its bounties overflown.
He motioned -- it was time to Reap,
The Field that once was brown.
Disclaimer: I'm no poet, nor do I read much poetry.
The thing I like the most is the images it evokes for me. Very autumnal, and autumn always has such a dead feel to me, moreso than winter. I also really like "Each roof finely marked." I got an initial sense of cozy home, followed by the realization of where home was.
Some things in the second to last stanza throws me off though. The repetition of "pen", which I'm not sure if it was intentional or incidental. The -- before and after The Swine gives me the impression that you're talking about Death, in which case I can't figure out what it is he likes so much about the pen. So I get kinda stuck there.
And then with the last stanza, I get a renewed sense of the passage of time and cyclicism, which really ties it together for me. My kinda poem!
Thanks for the feedback. I think you do a nice job of sandwiching constructive criticism between positive feedback. The repetition was intentional. If you look up the original by Emily Dickinson, she does something similar. It's probably my least favorite part of her poem and my version of the poem. It really disrupts the flow. However, I like how you have to chew over the words. The purpose of the fourth stanza was to invoke a sense of raw animalism. Both the farmer and death are harvesters, and what they do is so fundamental but at the same time, fairly messy. Thanks for the feedback. I may revisit the fourth stanza and abandon the "pen" repetition.
Ah okay that makes sense thematically. And flow-wise, kind of a moment to chomp at the bit.
And thanks! I'm always worried about being too nice and coming off as mushy, or too critical and coming off as a douche. So I try and find all the stuff I like and dislike and just write it out into something that I think they'll be most likely to take constructively. I can't even really judge based on what I would like to hear, cus I honestly don't know what works well for me and what doesn't.
I really liked how you admitted upfront that poetry is not something you have much experience with. I think that admission opened the door for the author to share the (interesting, as I didn't know either) inspiration material for this work. I also appreciate how you go into detail about something that caused you difficulty when reading. That sort of feedback really helps someone understand how the flow of the work sounds to a lay reader who might not have much experience with poetry (a nice audience to appeal to, even if it isn't always the target audience).
One thing I kind of which I knew a little more about, even though I understand it's a little beside the point, is if you have read any poetry before. Are you comparing this work to anything or is this basically standing alone in your mind as the first poem you really liked?
Oh yea! I barely noticed that! I didn't know anything about the original poem, and it totally blew past me that the reason the source material was probably mentioned was because I admitted that I don't know poetry.
I read poetry from time to time, but I wouldn't describe myself as being familiar with any of it. I really like the jabberwock and still remember some Shel Silverstein. Light hearted stuff. I have really enjoyed the more introspective stuff that I've read, but none of it sticks with my like the fun stuff does. A bit of background: my mother is an English professor, and I involved myself in her classes when I was a kid. Was pretty wacky proof-reading college papers when I was in high school. But I never really followed in her footsteps as a writer or poet. The most I do nowadays is occasionally flip open one of the many Norton Readers scattering my bookshelves and randomly pick through things to read. Can be a good way for me to find thematic inspiration for other things, but I don't really study any of it so I don't really absorb much apart from the themes I'm looking for. Hope that makes sense.
Here's a poem that I wrote a couple of years ago. It's one of those that I wrote, stuffed under the bed, and polished later. Coming back to it now I wonder if the location is too obscure. Any feedback on that and any other quirks is welcome!
Rain
you can smell the rain fall here
long before it hits the ground
burnt dust and heat grumbles
in tumbled gusts
crisp leaves skitter in rusty
scratches across the sidewalk
saying the rain comescomes
the rain it comes.
they land in the pool. worse yet
the sauna to reconstitute
like bay in a soup of
chlorine and oleander
so the chemist comes
in a rueful murmur of alkali
saying the rain drumsdrums
the rain it drums
and the water drops
on a good day, hit the ground
before they vanish
in a genial puff of steam.
on the roof it drums
the air sticky in delight
saying the rain humshums
the rain it hums
we swim through the wind
to the porch and pull back
the door like a shower curtain
singing with the thrum
then it stops.
save for the brew
in the pool, you wonder if
there is rain in the desert
at all.
I'm picturing a backyard pool getting one of those brief summer rains that barely even wets the ground before it's gone on a gust of wind that lingers far longer. To be honest I'm having a hard time catching a good rhythm. I think I'm maybe trying too hard to impose a meter on it when it should be read more free-flowing. But the rhythm I get from the repeated bits (comes, drums, hums) makes me feel a couple contradictory ways. First, excitement or a sort of dance, but also an impatience for the rain to be over, or that's it's a dull annoyance. Overall, it brings to mind lot of memories of weird summer rain, how refreshing it feels to jump in a pool, how much more intense the petrichor is in the summer, and how invasive that crazy wind is that comes after.
Maybe this would help? How about more specific punctuation? Does it build concrete imagery in your head?
This poem was written to play with the actual sound of the words and should be spoken out loud. Is there any portion that's too awkward? :D (I'm so super excited that anyone's responding!)
Ah sweet! Yea, I like the rhythm you have there. Particularly the way the sibilance and consonance ebbs and flows. I don't think my issues had anything to do with the way it was written, it's more because I'm not very well read in poetry. Apart from simple meters, I usually end up having to read through a dozen or more times before I start hearing it properly and making sense of it.
I think the imagery is so accessible to me because it's all very familiar. The oleander (endless rows of it for windbreaks where we used to keep the horses when I was a kid), the wind (oh god, I'm so tired of wind), the leaves scratching across the ground (I have to constantly sweep up sycamore detritus), the pool leaf tea, even the pool guy (I had the job of cleaning my dad's pool when I was a kid, so I was the one ruefully murmuring).
Sorry it took me a while to get to it, I've been trying to respond to everyone. I still want to get around to responding to the context you provided for your watercolor as well. I was playing around with it in photoshop trying to get a decent idea of how the sky might look using different tones, and which areas could use detail based on what you were saying. I was thinking along the lines of depth of field and just punching down the shadows a bit, but I wanted to give you something a bit more complete as feedback so I'm holding off on that one for now.
Dang dude. This took me a few attempts to get through because of how often my head kept relating what I was reading back to my own experiences. I don't know how accessible this piece is to people who don't understand depression or haven't been there, but for me it brought back all sorts of unpleasantness. To be clear, I see that as a huge positive.
The beginning set the scene really well with all of the tactile and visceral imagery. Just the word "miscellaneous" gives me an image of a box of crap I have to sort though, and sorting through boxes of crap bums me out because they're always full of awful memories. Haphazardly stitching fabric advances that feeling and piles on memories of thrift store smells and worn out and dusty cloth. "Bottled detrita" feels like liquid death to me, because I always picture sharks tearing apart prey and all of the bits that float away when I think of detritus.
So for me personally, the first few images give me a really clear sense of exactly the sort of things that I dwell on during prolonged episodes without feeling heavy-handed.
I keep returning to "hollow and aching" because that is another sort of identity keystone to me, and "antagonistic sycophant desperate for approval" has a nice rhythm to it. To me, shame is more of a spotlight that shines on me when all I want is quiet and dark, but the idea of it projecting out insecurities is damn good. "...yet her need to avoid it has done more damage than it ever could have" could be worded much better though. You have really well-suited imagery throughout, and I feel like this could end with more. Maybe a glimpse of the picture of shame, or a description of the sensation. In my case it might be something along the lines of, "The perpetuation of past failures huddled in periphery presents a threat to survival itself, yet averting his eyes only allows it closer."
(As an aside, I actually feel like setting aside my shame of the past has allowed me more headspace to properly address more current issues. It all still comes back to haunt me from time to time though.)
With originality, hoo boy I could go on at length about this subject. This part definitely brings up all sorts of emotions for me. Again, I feel like you could have done with a better finish. Feeling existence justified in a way that it doesn't feel it justifies itself, that takes a bit of mulling.
(Another aside, since impostor syndrome plagues a lot of really awesome creatives... The vast majority of things that are worth doing have all been done before, but that doesn't make it not worth doing. Originality doesn't have to mean utterly unique. Our world is built on the bones of those who came before us, and I feel like acknowledging that what I make isn't perfectly unique is a way to acknowledge that I couldn't have gotten here alone.)
"Endless self-deprecation..."
So the reintroduction of second person almost threw me for a loop. I'm a bit slow on the uptake sometimes though. I thought at first that you were talking about yourself with the laughter becoming insincere, but then I sorted it out and it feels worse. Dang. "...poverty of personality beyond disingenuous self-awareness." Dang.
I'm not a fan of the Polaroid imagery though. It's well worded, I just don't think it fits. Everything above that illustrates something far more complex than a blank wall.
Thanks for the read! Context made a big difference in understanding it for me. I feel like I would have been less interested without a bit of backstory.
edit: @captain_cardinal also posted a response, but I think it ended up at root level for some reason. Also had to fix a typo.
Thanks for the heads-up. Sort of missed the mark on my response haha.
I really like how vulnerable the narrator is in this prose (and I understand you're largely writing about your own experience, but it's still useful to distinguish between the inspiration and the output). I typically think that the best, most emotionally raw writing comes from a place of pain. Good writers generally don't live happy lives, sadly. A few assholes got it good, and they will forever earn my hatred, but for the most part the depth of good writing is often driven by the pain of life and living. You convey that well here.
I want to tell this narrator that creativity and good writing is not wholly unique writing. There is no need to hold yourself to that impossible standard. You don't have to be "different" to be good. You have to successfully communicate to your readers. And you do. My view of creativity is integrative. Creativity is the act of integrating ideas, experiences, values and identities into exactly the sort of amalgam of media consumption this narrator is so worried makes her repetitive and banal. That is the process! Once when I told someone this, they asked me if creativity is just integrating a bunch of other things what makes any work special. To me the answer is obvious: the work is yours.
To echo aethicglass' comment about the Polaroid, I think it's a good image but maybe not at this point in the prose. The story needs an ending. I get that. Perhaps something that ties in better with the patchwork imagery that dominates the theme of the previous images. A babushka doll maybe, since you're trying to convey emptiness and an onion-like facade?
Or maybe if the narrator feels like what the rest of the world sees is the washed out polaroid of a blank wall, my thought is "what's behind the wall?"
Not really a full critique, but I just want to say that I love the line, "She’s the type to get accused of missing the forest for the trees, then try to address the grievance through deforestation."
However, the following line feels a little contrived to me. I'm not sure how to explain it. I find the forest line so profound, that I would prefer the stanza to end there.
I don't know what I want this to be. A poem, or spoken word, or lyrics to a song. It needs more refining to fit one of those, but for now I have a draft.
I know what to attack
But I don't know how to fight it
And I want you to know I'm trying
But you never seem to buy it
I'm constantly terrified
Of the person im becoming
Playing the same three chords
On this shitty guitar I'm strumming
I don't stop and change my ways
Because changing is hard
And it's easier to do nothing
Than to draw a different card
I change once more
Back to how i was before
I come off like I've got it straight
But my heads up in the floor
And my body's in the basement
A meek and stunted dweller
And my eyes are always fixated
On that bright and cheerful cellar
But that cellar's where I should be
A consolation prize
Where I wanna go is out of here
But it's hard to realize
That what I'm doing ain't working
And what I'm working ain't enough
That I need to buckle down
Even if I think I've had enough
But "enough" is in the basement
The one that will confine
All my efforts to be freed
Of these hexes in my mind
The curse tells me to "sleep"
And I'm inclined to comply
But a voice splits through my head
Loud enough to split my mind
"You can do it" it cries
"I believe you" it shouts
And for a moment I have the strength
To throw away these doubts
But the moment's short lived
And so is that voice
I retreat back inside
And forget about my choice
To want to shirk free
Of the demons inside
Who tell me what to do
And where I should hide
But daily I grow stronger
And by the minute I recover
The voice inside that shrinks away
When I desperately need another
In time I will banish these beasts
That reside in this bunker
Of a head so airtight
Fit to stump any spelunker
I can see light pierce the blanket
Of the black before my eyes
And I believe that I can make it
Regardless of the lies
I tell myself everyday
"One step a time"
But today I can actually feel myself
Starting to make the climb.
Basically, it's about my inability to buckle down and quit the self destructive behaviors I have. How I tell myself "tomorrow I'll do better" but tomorrow is more of the same. I feel like it suffers from being too lengthy but I feel like it needs it
I completely understand the dual vibes of lyrics and spoken word. There were segments that felt more powerful and others that felt more lyrical. I recommend turning it into spoken word. Maybe you can read it out loud and revise the portions that are more song-like. One stanza that stands out to me as more lyrical is this one:
Yeah I kinda flip flopped between wanting a song and wanting a poem of sorts. It met in the middle haha
Disclaimer: I don't know much about poetry. (Dang, there's a lot of poetry I've been reading on here lately!)
Along the lines of what @captain_cardinal said, it definitely straddles between modes. Whichever way you decide to go with it, either towards spoken word or song, there are parts that you'll need to revisit to make it consistent for that mode.
Regardless of that, I think some parts could benefit from some alliteration of some sort. For instance
doesn't flow as well to me as
Sleep/inclined/comply, voice/splits, head/mind, even sleep/comply are pleasing combinations that tie that whole stanza together for me. I know it's a bit subjective and it's entirely up to you what sounds right to your ear, but I just wanted to use it as an example in case it's an aspect you haven't considered.
Content-wise, effecting change is definitely a difficult process. Finding the resolve to do so, as opposed to simply going through the motions, is a huge factor. Having the support of the people around you, and more importantly having them be supportive of who you want to become, is another big one. I often lean on free-writing in transitional periods because it helps me dissect my frame of mind. It seems like this is serving a very similar purpose for you. I know this goes a bit beyond the scope of feedback on your piece, so I hope it's not too out of line in mentioning. I just always get excited about folks going through some serious transitions because there's such a huge potential for utilizing that energy creatively.
And thanks for the read! I'd love to see what you end up doing with it.
Thank you for the extensive feedback! I know the whole thing kinda struggles with meter issues and it sounds very rough around the edges right now, but the thread popped up and I figured why not. I definitely plan on refining it and possibly making one spoken word version and one song version. This definitely has been something on my mind for a while and I'm at a turning point and this helps me flesh things out in my mind and I love getting feedback on what I can improve. Thank you for your input!