Sámi rights activists in Norway charged over protests against wind farm affecting reindeer herding

We don't have to agree, we probably won't end up (fully) agreeing, or at least not on the priority. But that doesn't mean I don't think your points are valid (they are!), it's rather that I believe we have a more pressing concern that simply can't be ignored any longer (the holocene extinction event) that makes everything else seem small. I'm genuinely frightened through my bones for what the future brings, so much that I usually prefer to not think about it because it paralyzes me with fear. We're looking at a near-future with hundreds of millions of refugees, if not billions, if nothing is done and even if I'll be dead by then, what about the next generation? And the one after that? They'll be crushed because of our (in)actions.

I respect the high level of concern you're feeling even if I don't share the fear - possibly due to a bit of dissociation on the whole matter myself. I think though that the question is whether these few windmills truly matter that significantly towards addressing that fear, because being willing to do literally anything to stop climate change may be an understandable impulse. I can't remember the name of the book by Kim Stanley Robinson where climate terrorism became a real and effective thing far beyond what we've experienced, but I get why that seems appealing.

To me though, if that's the justification, screw property rights, screw human rights, screw whatever in the name of saving the human race and our ecosystems, then they (say Norway) should actually do that rather than just screwing the Sami for a handful of windmills. I don't really think that's the best solution, but if the cause is so noble and so dire that'd be the path.

Reindeer herding isn't traditional in the sense that they still do it like they did 500 years ago. I know it's easy to think of it as some sort of idyllic life (and in many ways it is, away from the stress of the office and cubicle), but it's mechanized today, with snow scooters and mobile homes, phones and satellites, and many of them have permanent homes and cars too, with everything that encompasses. That's what I mean when I say they make full use of modern amenities - of course they should be allowed access to make life easier, just as everyone else, but I do think that it's hypocritical of them to take advantage of today's conveniences yet aren't willing to share the cost (renewable energy production on a small part of the land they use).

I assumed that they were using modern tech, just likely somewhat less than someone in a more urban environment. But I still find it odd that they're the prime target of the accusation of hypocrisy. If I put myself in the shoes of the Sami, I'd probably think that the rest of the country was being hypocritical as well.

I can almost guarantee you that "normal" people didn't have their land taken (expropriation) without being offered compensation prior to possible court proceedings. But, legally speaking, there's probably a difference because the Sami doesn't necessarily own the land themselves that they used as grazing grounds for their reindeer, now windmills (but I'd also like to make it clear that I don't believe that something being a law necessarily equals it being moral or just).

This is why I related it to Native American land usage pre-colonization/western expansion. They probably weren't given the ability to "own" the land they used the entire time? Even without owning it, if I've a government contract to use land, and then the government gives some of that land to someone else without my OK, it certainly makes me think I have a right to sue for not getting the deal I'm supposed to have. Native American tribes are suing for not having the water rights they're supposed to be given priority on, for having pipelines built through their treaty land or the land they've traditionally used. Our government just historically cares way less about their rights than the Norwegian government cares about the rights of the Sami even given current circumstances.

I'm not sure how I feel about making a direct comparison about the historical treatment of Native Americans to this incident. It feels... wrong. I'm not sure if it's because the atrocities done to them were so much worse than placing windmills on 50 km² (20 mi²) of land or it's because I believe that humanity is forced to act for the greater good of everyone, including the Sami themselves, and every consumer (including the Sami) has to do their part and sacrifice a bit or none of us will be here for much longer.

I don't know the history of the Sami very well, but though they didn't die from disease and weren't as violently displaced, they were discriminated against, not allowed to buy/lease land, and required to assimilate through schooling causing loss of religion, culture and language. This is more comparable to a pipeline being built, with all the destruction that causes to the land from construction and any risks to the occupants after the fact.
It would feel very different if across the country, large landholders/users lost land without compensation. But as you noted that's not what happened.

Maybe it's not ice where you live, however that same change is coming for everyone, everywhere in the world. Because my generation, because my parents' generation didn't do enough. We failed you, miserable, and I'm truly sorry for that, I can't express how sorry I am. But please, please, don't make the same mistake that we did and stall yourselves in inaction waiting for the perfect solution, even though your reason is so much more noble than that of our complacency and ignorance was.

I am curious about how old you are and how old you think I am. I'm not looking for perfect solutions, but if our solutions come with the same colonial behaviors as our problems did, we'll end up right back where we started. If the imperfect solutions only impact the poor, the religious and ethnic minorities, the already disenfranchised, we're not actually finding solutions. Lets say the only place in Norway to build these was the Sami land, then the compensation should have been assured from the jump. Even if it wasn't ideal, it'd at least be a typical case of eminent domain (don't know how legal or common that is in Norway) rather than a typical case of human rights violation.

PS. It just struck me, could you ever imagine a discussion like this on reddit? I couldn't; I appreciate we can have a civil discussion, thank you :)

I have had a few, but I truly do appreciate this conversation. I know neither of us mean ill and are both coming from genuine places, even if the outcomes are different.