This is awesome! I'm so proud of my state lately for making so many advances in social issues, economic issues, and energy issues! I don't know a whole lot about geothermal, but that article was...
This is awesome! I'm so proud of my state lately for making so many advances in social issues, economic issues, and energy issues! I don't know a whole lot about geothermal, but that article was very well detailed and got me up to speed. I'm looking forward to advances in renewable energy here, since that's one main area we're lacking when compared to similarly sized/populated european countries that do a good job with renewables.
I'd love to live in Minnesota if it weren't for the absolutely frigid winters, I just can't do those anymore. But it seems like a lovely state and stuff like this is awesome.
I'd love to live in Minnesota if it weren't for the absolutely frigid winters, I just can't do those anymore. But it seems like a lovely state and stuff like this is awesome.
This is becoming a thing ... several towns/cities in Germany are doing similar projects right now ... Here is Mannheim, building a large-scale heat pump for district heating, pulling its energy...
This is becoming a thing ... several towns/cities in Germany are doing similar projects right now ... Here is Mannheim, building a large-scale heat pump for district heating, pulling its energy from the Rhine river, aiming to provide ~20 megawatts of thermal energy to heat ~2,000 homes.
AFAICT this isn't talking about geothermal, it's talking about district heating and ground-source heat pumps (used because the temperature a few meters below ground is more consistent than the...
AFAICT this isn't talking about geothermal, it's talking about district heating and ground-source heat pumps (used because the temperature a few meters below ground is more consistent than the air). See:
For the electric grid, networked thermal systems could bring relief because they use substantially less electricity than competitive solutions. Ground source heat pumps operate more efficiently than air source heat pumps, which now outsell fossil gas furnaces. And although ground source heat pumps use electricity, they consume less energy than heating alternatives, Gaalswyk said.
Actual geothermal runs a steam turbine off the heat to produce electricity instead of being a net consumer of electricity, this isn't what @EsteeBestee thinks it is.
The state’s two major gas utilities, Xcel Energy and CenterPoint Energy, included networked geothermal pilots in plans submitted under the Natural Gas Innovation Act to the Public Utilities Commission.
I don't trust them at all - gas companies tend to want to sell gas. This project would not be able to run over the gas network (you need a loop of usually-water that runs through a radiator at the client side, and gas pipes probably aren't waterproof and they're almost certainly not insulated) so this would be a project to just replace them, and companies tend to want to eke value out of the thing they've already invested heavily in.
This is great news - I want district heating to succeed - but the terminology is misleading and at best technically accurate.
I don’t see how the terminology is misleading. This is geothermal heating as I have always understood it. It’s not just technically accurate, it’s the proper terminology....
I don’t see how the terminology is misleading. This is geothermal heating as I have always understood it. It’s not just technically accurate, it’s the proper terminology.
Adding to others' comments ... there are multiple correct definitions of "geothermal" ... even before you look at any specific Wikipedia articles, you can start with their "Disambiguation" page...
Adding to others' comments ... there are multiple correct definitions of "geothermal" ... even before you look at any specific Wikipedia articles, you can start with their "Disambiguation" page for geothermal which makes it pretty clear that it means many different things, including both your definition, and--among other things--ground source heat pumps such as this article is discussing.
Geothermal heat can be used to produce electricity, but using it directly for district heating is more efficient, versus converting heat to electricity and back again. Also, you need higher...
Geothermal heat can be used to produce electricity, but using it directly for district heating is more efficient, versus converting heat to electricity and back again. Also, you need higher temperatures for electricity generation than for heating. So it seems like a system that doesn’t produce electricity could still be geothermal? (Apparently this is called “direct use geothermal.”)
But the question is whether they will drill far enough to get that much heat out. Are they just circulating a fluid (like a radiator system circulates hot water) or do they need a compressor? There will likely be a pump either way.
In the article, it does sound like they want to use electricity to heat water, but the details seem sketchy:
Audrey Schulman, co-founder and co-executive director of the nonprofit climate solutions incubator HEET, said utilities with networked geothermal can begin heating water a week before an expected cold snap to avoid stressing the system — for instance, taking advantage of excess electricity from wind farms.
There are two types of heat here: "ambient heat" (think 10ºC/50ºF), and usable heat (think hot springs and boiling water). The former can help heat pumps (AKA reverse-cycle air conditioners) run...
There are two types of heat here: "ambient heat" (think 10ºC/50ºF), and usable heat (think hot springs and boiling water). The former can help heat pumps (AKA reverse-cycle air conditioners) run in extremely-cold weather (but doesn't actually do anything), and the latter can be used to generate electricity or heat homes.
This article is talking about a project to access ambient heat. It is not talking about usable heat. In fact, if they were going to tap usable heat, then the reverse-cycle air conditioners would be entirely redundant! If you're pulling up heated water of over 50ºC/122ºF then you don't need a heat pump to heat your water, it's already hot and perfectly capable of heating homes to a temperature of e.g. 25ºC/77ºF.
In the article, it does sound like they want to use electricity to heat water
This sounds like they want to slap down a heat battery ala Polarnight Energy/Rondo Energy/Fourth Power/that one starting with A. That's not geothermal, but it involves similar principles and would synergize quite nicely with district heating.
This is awesome! I'm so proud of my state lately for making so many advances in social issues, economic issues, and energy issues! I don't know a whole lot about geothermal, but that article was very well detailed and got me up to speed. I'm looking forward to advances in renewable energy here, since that's one main area we're lacking when compared to similarly sized/populated european countries that do a good job with renewables.
I'd love to live in Minnesota if it weren't for the absolutely frigid winters, I just can't do those anymore. But it seems like a lovely state and stuff like this is awesome.
This is becoming a thing ... several towns/cities in Germany are doing similar projects right now ... Here is Mannheim, building a large-scale heat pump for district heating, pulling its energy from the Rhine river, aiming to provide ~20 megawatts of thermal energy to heat ~2,000 homes.
AFAICT this isn't talking about geothermal, it's talking about district heating and ground-source heat pumps (used because the temperature a few meters below ground is more consistent than the air). See:
Actual geothermal runs a steam turbine off the heat to produce electricity instead of being a net consumer of electricity, this isn't what @EsteeBestee thinks it is.
I don't trust them at all - gas companies tend to want to sell gas. This project would not be able to run over the gas network (you need a loop of usually-water that runs through a radiator at the client side, and gas pipes probably aren't waterproof and they're almost certainly not insulated) so this would be a project to just replace them, and companies tend to want to eke value out of the thing they've already invested heavily in.
This is great news - I want district heating to succeed - but the terminology is misleading and at best technically accurate.
I don’t see how the terminology is misleading. This is geothermal heating as I have always understood it. It’s not just technically accurate, it’s the proper terminology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_energy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heating
Adding to others' comments ... there are multiple correct definitions of "geothermal" ... even before you look at any specific Wikipedia articles, you can start with their "Disambiguation" page for geothermal which makes it pretty clear that it means many different things, including both your definition, and--among other things--ground source heat pumps such as this article is discussing.
Geothermal heat can be used to produce electricity, but using it directly for district heating is more efficient, versus converting heat to electricity and back again. Also, you need higher temperatures for electricity generation than for heating. So it seems like a system that doesn’t produce electricity could still be geothermal? (Apparently this is called “direct use geothermal.”)
But the question is whether they will drill far enough to get that much heat out. Are they just circulating a fluid (like a radiator system circulates hot water) or do they need a compressor? There will likely be a pump either way.
In the article, it does sound like they want to use electricity to heat water, but the details seem sketchy:
There are two types of heat here: "ambient heat" (think 10ºC/50ºF), and usable heat (think hot springs and boiling water). The former can help heat pumps (AKA reverse-cycle air conditioners) run in extremely-cold weather (but doesn't actually do anything), and the latter can be used to generate electricity or heat homes.
This article is talking about a project to access ambient heat. It is not talking about usable heat. In fact, if they were going to tap usable heat, then the reverse-cycle air conditioners would be entirely redundant! If you're pulling up heated water of over 50ºC/122ºF then you don't need a heat pump to heat your water, it's already hot and perfectly capable of heating homes to a temperature of e.g. 25ºC/77ºF.
This sounds like they want to slap down a heat battery ala Polarnight Energy/Rondo Energy/Fourth Power/that one starting with A. That's not geothermal, but it involves similar principles and would synergize quite nicely with district heating.
If it's airtight, shouldn't that also make it watertight?