11 votes

Are plastic bag bans garbage?

11 comments

  1. [3]
    euphoria066
    Link
    The hard part about environmentalism stuff is trying to make people care. People tend to choose convenience every time over any kind of social or environmental responsibility. I think I read...

    The hard part about environmentalism stuff is trying to make people care. People tend to choose convenience every time over any kind of social or environmental responsibility.

    I think I read somewhere that.. Austria I believe? banned plastic bags but that they encouraged businesses to have nothing to replace them - no paper available, no cheap reusable totes. and when people were confronted with the reality that they now would just have to carry everything in their arms, they almost unilaterally started remembering their tote bags. Because it wasn't convenient not to.

    I have a polyester tote bag that has a tiny pocket with a snap that it scrunches into so that it stays compacted in my purse neatly. I got it as a gift from my boss when they went to NY in my first year of working at my job, and I have practically never forgotten it.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      nothis
      Link Parent
      Don't think so.

      Austria I believe?

      Don't think so.

      1 vote
      1. euphoria066
        Link Parent
        Hmmm yeah theirs doesn't take place until 2020- I'll try to remember harder.

        Hmmm yeah theirs doesn't take place until 2020- I'll try to remember harder.

        1 vote
  2. [3]
    Sahasrahla
    Link
    Anecdotally, I can see some of what this article is saying in my own life. We used to use plastic grocery bags for certain tasks (mostly related to waste disposal) and when we needed more we'd...

    Anecdotally, I can see some of what this article is saying in my own life. We used to use plastic grocery bags for certain tasks (mostly related to waste disposal) and when we needed more we'd leave the reusable bags at home when getting groceries. Now we buy plastic bags instead. These bags are larger, thicker, and come with their own packaging. We could find ways to do without them altogether but it would be unpleasant and inconvenient. Realistically I'll put in some effort to be a little more environmentally friendly, I might put in a lot of effort to be a lot more environmentally friendly (e.g. public transit instead of driving), but I'm never going to put in a lot of effort to be just a little more environmentally friendly. Probably that's true for a lot of people.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      unknown user
      Link Parent
      Do your stores not offer cotton & fabric bags that you can reuse by bringing them back into the store to re-pack with groceries next time? Surely there's something on Amazon/<your preferred...

      Do your stores not offer cotton & fabric bags that you can reuse by bringing them back into the store to re-pack with groceries next time? Surely there's something on Amazon/<your preferred store>.

      The common argument against these types of bags is they need "dozens of uses" to pay back their cost of creation in energy. I can attest that I've reused these types of bags hundreds of times without them degrading. They would still be a net win for the environment regardless, as it does reduce the quantity of plastic used.

      5 votes
      1. Sahasrahla
        Link Parent
        I do use them. My point was more that in the old system I would mostly use reusable bags and then only get plastic grocery bags for when I needed them around the house. Now I always use reusable...

        I do use them. My point was more that in the old system I would mostly use reusable bags and then only get plastic grocery bags for when I needed them around the house. Now I always use reusable bags and when I need plastic bags for something I buy them, but the ones I buy have more plastic/packaging per bag than the old plastic grocery bags. Mostly I was giving my anecdotal take on this part of the article:

        Taylor found these bag bans did what they were supposed to: People in the cities with the bans used fewer plastic bags, which led to about 40 million fewer pounds of plastic trash per year. But people who used to reuse their shopping bags for other purposes, like picking up dog poop or lining trash bins, still needed bags. "What I found was that sales of garbage bags actually skyrocketed after plastic grocery bags were banned," she says. This was particularly the case for small, 4-gallon bags, which saw a 120 percent increase in sales after bans went into effect.

        Trash bags are thick and use more plastic than typical shopping bags. "So about 30 percent of the plastic that was eliminated by the ban comes back in the form of thicker garbage bags," Taylor says. On top of that, cities that banned plastic bags saw a surge in the use of paper bags, which she estimates resulted in about 80 million pounds of extra paper trash per year.

        ...

        As for bag policies, Taylor says a fee is smarter than a ban. She has a second paper showing a small fee for bags is just as effective as a ban when it comes to encouraging use of reusable bags. But a fee offers flexibility for people who reuse plastic bags for garbage disposal or dog walking.

        To be clear, I'm not against reusable bags. I just support some disincentives for plastic grocery bags (e.g. a small cost for them) instead of banning them altogether.

        3 votes
  3. [5]
    Akir
    Link
    Honestly, the real waste in grocery stores is the packaging on the groceries themselves. A typical box of Twinkies likely wastes much more material than the plastic bag you tote them home in. I...

    Honestly, the real waste in grocery stores is the packaging on the groceries themselves. A typical box of Twinkies likely wastes much more material than the plastic bag you tote them home in.

    I long for a grocery store that carries everything in vats and you have to bring your own containers.

    2 votes
    1. [4]
      aphoenix
      Link Parent
      Those exist! There's a great one on the city I live in and I try to shop there when I can, but it is fairly expensive.

      Those exist! There's a great one on the city I live in and I try to shop there when I can, but it is fairly expensive.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        Sahasrahla
        Link Parent
        One good example is Bulk Barn.

        One good example is Bulk Barn.

        1 vote
        1. aphoenix
          Link Parent
          Bulk Barn is great, but wasn't the one I was thinking of - we have one called Zero Waste Bulk which actually doesn't provide things like plastic bags (as you can get in Bulk Barn). You have to...

          Bulk Barn is great, but wasn't the one I was thinking of - we have one called Zero Waste Bulk which actually doesn't provide things like plastic bags (as you can get in Bulk Barn). You have to actually bring containers with you and tare them before you can buy stuff.

          2 votes
      2. Akir
        Link Parent
        The closest thing like that near me is a WinCo foods, where they have a large bulk foods section. But it's still just a relatively small section of their store, and I know that many of those bins...

        The closest thing like that near me is a WinCo foods, where they have a large bulk foods section. But it's still just a relatively small section of their store, and I know that many of those bins are filled up from relatively small plastic bags. My dream store also sells dairy products in bulk.

        Though now that I think about it, the produce section already meets these expectations so long as you don't use their plastic bags. That's pretty good.

        There isn't really a good reason why they should cost more than packaged goods, though. There are fewer production steps, after all.

        1 vote