17 votes

Illegal CFC emissions have stopped since scientists raised alarm

6 comments

  1. [6]
    RNG
    Link
    Thank you for sharing this. We deserve to relish in environmental successes, especially when they seem few and far between. The Montreal Protocol is something we can view as a concrete example of...

    Thank you for sharing this.

    We deserve to relish in environmental successes, especially when they seem few and far between. The Montreal Protocol is something we can view as a concrete example of how international cooperation averted climate destruction. Of course, the economics changed, the biggest titan keeping CFCs legal was DuPont, which found ways to make more money using CFC alternatives and reversed course on CFCs.

    Perhaps Climate Change and alternative energy can play a similar role prior to 440-450ppm CO2 (required to keep us out of multiple uncontrollable positive feedback loops that will cause a "worst case scenario" sort of outcome.)

    For context, January saw 415.24ppm. In 2010, we were at 389.79ppm.

    8 votes
    1. [5]
      vord
      Link Parent
      While progress is good, CFC's were a known problem several years before my birth in the mid-80s, and the phase-out occuring over my entire lifespan. And they were considered one of the records for...

      While progress is good, CFC's were a known problem several years before my birth in the mid-80s, and the phase-out occuring over my entire lifespan. And they were considered one of the records for fast action.

      So, given current political climate, I don't have high hopes, especially since what progress that is made tends to get rolled back periodically...

      Raising kid to survive our coming Mad Max apocalypse seems a wise decision.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        RNG
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        If it makes you feel any better, we have made a lot of progress in the past decade. The economics have changed due to public investment in alternative energy. Solar energy is for the first time...

        If it makes you feel any better, we have made a lot of progress in the past decade. The economics have changed due to public investment in alternative energy. Solar energy is for the first time the cheapest form of energy, outcompeting coal in cost [1]. Compared to a decade ago, electric cars are far more prevalent, and the uptake is progressing rapidly. Uptake rates are higher than previously estimated [2], and the power grid supporting these vehicles is increasingly not coal. A lot of these accomplishments are the long-term payoffs of investment in green energy during the Obama years [3].

        [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-is-now-cheapest-electricity-in-history-confirms-iea

        [2] https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2020

        [3] https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/reports/2017/06/29/435281/americas-clean-energy-success-numbers/

        I recommend the podcast "How to Save a Planet." A common talking point there is that now, in 2021, we have all the technology we need to stop carbon emissions, and the economics are changing favorably. All we need is public policy to push this stuff along and speed up the implementation, to forestall the worst effects of climate change. I'm not a fan of Biden, but I have reason to be hopeful that he will prioritize combatting climate change at least as much as Obama.

        7 votes
        1. [3]
          vord
          Link Parent
          It is, but there's also many blind spots in this progress. One I see is that electric cars are gonna introduce a lot of new problems unless we also drastically reduce the number of cars needed....

          It is, but there's also many blind spots in this progress.

          One I see is that electric cars are gonna introduce a lot of new problems unless we also drastically reduce the number of cars needed. Specifically that now instead of wars for oil, it'll be wars for lithium.

          We need much better mass transit. If not in rural areas, most certainly in urban ones. And it needs to be free, or at a bare minimum, exponentially cheaper than it currently is.

          2 votes
          1. RNG
            Link Parent
            If the trolley problem involves irreparable damage to the climate and something else on the other side, I don't know what there could possibly be on the other side to outweigh this issue. It...

            If the trolley problem involves irreparable damage to the climate and something else on the other side, I don't know what there could possibly be on the other side to outweigh this issue. It doesn't seem unreasonable that this may be the single greatest ethical, environmental, and social justice issue we may face this millennium.

            2 votes
          2. skybrian
            Link Parent
            Although there is high demand, there also seem to be alternative sources of lithium? Here’s an article about lithium from geothermal waters. The article you linked to is blocked for me, but it...

            Although there is high demand, there also seem to be alternative sources of lithium? Here’s an article about lithium from geothermal waters.

            The article you linked to is blocked for me, but it seems unlikely there would be wars when there are other ways to get it?