I've been reading over it and pondering if our group should try it out or not. I like what I see with second edition. The modularity of character design they've put together is ridiculously good,...
I've been reading over it and pondering if our group should try it out or not. I like what I see with second edition. The modularity of character design they've put together is ridiculously good, might even be the best I've seen in any RPG before, though I've got to play it to be sure. They really went back to the core mechanics that spiral out into so much crunch and so many endless abilities in Pathfinder and tried to make sure that no matter what happens, the rules can cope with it.
Character classes are just stacks of a couple dozen feats, so you can pick and choose to build exactly what kind of character you want. This makes multiclassing very interesting since so many core abilities are just feats you can take from other classes to mix and match. The fighting stances look like they'll make combat a lot more interesting for martial characters - there are now sophisticated offensive and defensive modes. I also like the changes to action economy, with clear costs defined for everything. It's basically action points, just done with symbols instead of numbers. It should sidestep the eternal confusion of how many of what kinds of actions you get each round we see in other systems including 5E.
Pathfinder 2 is almost at its core a reinvention of Earthdawn, just using feats instead of talents. There's going to be more crunch, but that'll bring with it vastly more versatility and nuance - which is really the only reason to tolerate crunch in the first place.
My main criticism of 5E is that it's so damn simplistic I find myself having to bend the rules all the time just to get a character concept to fit into the system, or to make encounters challenging. It's limiting, even if it's great at being 'babby's first rpg' for an entire generation of new players. Old dogs like me however are chafing under the limits it sets on the game mechanics - especially in grid combat mechanics. I give my players four bonus feats for their character histories just to let them flex their concepts a bit.
Everyone's always picking the same cantrips, feats, and spells in 5E because they limit your spell slots and spells known to an obscene degree, and feats are as rare as water in the desert. Being able to choose more makes it less about picking the 'best' ones that give you the most return than it is about picking the ones that fit your character concept. It's about flavor rather than mechanics at that point.
It's a good product offering imo. It'll give people who outgrow D&D's system something more powerful to play with, without being so different that it breaks their brains. The new mechanics in P2E all follow from a few basic principles that refactor 3.5's style, and once you have those in your head, the way they've structured everything makes perfect sense.
I'm picking up the core rulebook and bestiary sometime this week when I can get to the local gaming store. I do love Paizo for jamming everything into one single massive six hundred page full color hardcover tome that's indexed to hell and back to make finding things easier. Wizards still likes to break everything up into multiple books to charge more. A Paizo book is worth three or four of Wizard's 5E books combined into a single volume.
I definitely agree with you on having to bend the rules of 5E to fit concepts. The reality say, that there is no class that works really well with TWF (even the feat to really get the concept to...
I definitely agree with you on having to bend the rules of 5E to fit concepts. The reality say, that there is no class that works really well with TWF (even the feat to really get the concept to work is garbage compared to GWM) is just ridiculous from a design point of view.
I really like the look of martials in PF2 on the whole, they just have so many more options both in creation and in play compared to 5e.
I must say however that I am a bit anxious about running the game(as a first time GM) mainly due to the skill system, I think I might find it difficult keeping the multiple DC's for the different TEML proficiencies and results for critical failures & successes in my head. It looks a bit daunting, memory wise for the sheer number of skill actions in and out of combat to keep track of.
I tried it but it's a bit crunch-heavy for me! I used to be in to 3rd Edition and that sort of game but these days I'm more in to rules lite stuff like The Black Hack or B/X DnD
I tried it but it's a bit crunch-heavy for me! I used to be in to 3rd Edition and that sort of game but these days I'm more in to rules lite stuff like The Black Hack or B/X DnD
I get the crunch alright, I'm coming from 5E so I was looking for a less loose system. Our 5E DM has to make a lot of calls and judgements on the fly as a lot of things aren't covered, some of...
I get the crunch alright, I'm coming from 5E so I was looking for a less loose system. Our 5E DM has to make a lot of calls and judgements on the fly as a lot of things aren't covered, some of which have come back to bite later on down the campaign. So I like the idea of a more robust framework for those niche cases.
I've only been able to dig into the first half of the Core rulebook but I like what I see so far! Think I'm going to try and GM for the first time with this new system.
I've only been able to dig into the first half of the Core rulebook but I like what I see so far!
Think I'm going to try and GM for the first time with this new system.
I've been reading over it and pondering if our group should try it out or not. I like what I see with second edition. The modularity of character design they've put together is ridiculously good, might even be the best I've seen in any RPG before, though I've got to play it to be sure. They really went back to the core mechanics that spiral out into so much crunch and so many endless abilities in Pathfinder and tried to make sure that no matter what happens, the rules can cope with it.
Character classes are just stacks of a couple dozen feats, so you can pick and choose to build exactly what kind of character you want. This makes multiclassing very interesting since so many core abilities are just feats you can take from other classes to mix and match. The fighting stances look like they'll make combat a lot more interesting for martial characters - there are now sophisticated offensive and defensive modes. I also like the changes to action economy, with clear costs defined for everything. It's basically action points, just done with symbols instead of numbers. It should sidestep the eternal confusion of how many of what kinds of actions you get each round we see in other systems including 5E.
Pathfinder 2 is almost at its core a reinvention of Earthdawn, just using feats instead of talents. There's going to be more crunch, but that'll bring with it vastly more versatility and nuance - which is really the only reason to tolerate crunch in the first place.
My main criticism of 5E is that it's so damn simplistic I find myself having to bend the rules all the time just to get a character concept to fit into the system, or to make encounters challenging. It's limiting, even if it's great at being 'babby's first rpg' for an entire generation of new players. Old dogs like me however are chafing under the limits it sets on the game mechanics - especially in grid combat mechanics. I give my players four bonus feats for their character histories just to let them flex their concepts a bit.
Everyone's always picking the same cantrips, feats, and spells in 5E because they limit your spell slots and spells known to an obscene degree, and feats are as rare as water in the desert. Being able to choose more makes it less about picking the 'best' ones that give you the most return than it is about picking the ones that fit your character concept. It's about flavor rather than mechanics at that point.
It's a good product offering imo. It'll give people who outgrow D&D's system something more powerful to play with, without being so different that it breaks their brains. The new mechanics in P2E all follow from a few basic principles that refactor 3.5's style, and once you have those in your head, the way they've structured everything makes perfect sense.
I'm picking up the core rulebook and bestiary sometime this week when I can get to the local gaming store. I do love Paizo for jamming everything into one single massive six hundred page full color hardcover tome that's indexed to hell and back to make finding things easier. Wizards still likes to break everything up into multiple books to charge more. A Paizo book is worth three or four of Wizard's 5E books combined into a single volume.
I definitely agree with you on having to bend the rules of 5E to fit concepts. The reality say, that there is no class that works really well with TWF (even the feat to really get the concept to work is garbage compared to GWM) is just ridiculous from a design point of view.
I really like the look of martials in PF2 on the whole, they just have so many more options both in creation and in play compared to 5e.
I must say however that I am a bit anxious about running the game(as a first time GM) mainly due to the skill system, I think I might find it difficult keeping the multiple DC's for the different TEML proficiencies and results for critical failures & successes in my head. It looks a bit daunting, memory wise for the sheer number of skill actions in and out of combat to keep track of.
I tried it but it's a bit crunch-heavy for me! I used to be in to 3rd Edition and that sort of game but these days I'm more in to rules lite stuff like The Black Hack or B/X DnD
I get the crunch alright, I'm coming from 5E so I was looking for a less loose system. Our 5E DM has to make a lot of calls and judgements on the fly as a lot of things aren't covered, some of which have come back to bite later on down the campaign. So I like the idea of a more robust framework for those niche cases.
I've only been able to dig into the first half of the Core rulebook but I like what I see so far!
Think I'm going to try and GM for the first time with this new system.