40 votes

A closer look at Kowloon Walled City in Hong Kong, the most densely populated place that ever existed

12 comments

  1. chocobean
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    thank you so for sharing this : ) so much nostalgia.... disclaimer, I've never been inside the walled city, but I grew up in that area circa 80s-90's and my dad's old dentist / doctors were in the...
    • Exemplary

    thank you so for sharing this : ) so much nostalgia....

    disclaimer, I've never been inside the walled city, but I grew up in that area circa 80s-90's and my dad's old dentist / doctors were in the city, before mom made him stop going. The X is where my old elementary school (still) is. Both that and the mall in Lok Fu are 10 minutes walking distance to the site. But even then I've never been, not even when it was emptied and about to be demolished - it's just not a family friendly kind of place, I guess.

    Comments on some of the pictures shown in the video

    snack store

    • I'm not kidding this one looks pretty clean, look at that fridge/counter! Would buy bottled cola from there.

    busy street signs -

    • A: "People's Republic of China - National ... Hospital" |
    • B: "[Name] Dentistry"
    • C: looks like there's some English on the top. Dr Something? The last character 師 denotes some kind of professional, like Medical Doctor or Accountant or Architect etc.
    • D: the woven bamboo basket is very commonly used as a rubbish bin. The massive amount of paper cardboard will usually be folded and bundled and carried off to recycling depots within the day (and new ones appear and disappear magically) by ladies who are sort of free agent self employed recyclers instead of municipal.
    • other: this density of signs along a street isn't out of the ordinary even in non-walled-city parts of HK circa 90s.

    roof top -

    • The Video mentioned the inner units don't get sunlight and fresh air. But consider the root top: they're opened public spaces with good unrestricted views of the entire colony and kids usually run around and play there. Housewives would gather there to gossip and hang laundry; old men would sit and tell stories or play chess, maybe take a nap. It's a Third Space. Roof top patios these days belong to the penthouse units or some other paid patrons, usually, or restricted because utilities are up there.

    close up of the sign from C, above!

    • It says that Dr Cheng is a medical doctor, and tagline, that she's the medical subject matter expert consultant for the Hong Kong Commercial Daily and healthcare practitioner.

    this shot is most definitely not part of walled city :) there's too much electricity demand to support the neon signs. A few shops here sell home electronics, which imply imported goods and you don't sell this volume of imported goods at the Walled City. The yellow sign on the left sign points to an upstairs hourly "hotel" - its yellow, which is like seeing an American place called "Roxy's Red Light 'Hotel'". I think the video included this shot because the narrator was talking about where wall city dimsum might end up by the end of the day.

    some of the youtube comments are worth reading for this one, especially @Toliman's.

    I think (one day) the park itself is definitely worth visiting, if just to see the scale model they show you a little bit at the end. One of the things HKers loved about the city is precisely its "neither this nor that, we are just ourselves" identity. It's HK in miniature: there's no law but the law wasn't always good anyway, and despite the mess, we take care of ourselves.

    It's not wall city, but if you wanted to get a glimpse of the good, bad and ugly of living in that kind of density, and the special kinship humans can form in difficult circumstances, I recommend the more-real-than-a-documentary Cageman (1992). Full film seems to be available here on youtube with English subs. The plot is that this super dense community is slated for demolition: how will the residents cope and where will they go? Rated R for "true to the neighbourhood" colourful language.


    bonus Royal HK Police Force vs HK Popo - geared up against triads in dark alleys vs against a 12 year old school girl shopping in broad daylight. Times have changed.

    16 votes
  2. [8]
    Comment deleted by author
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    1. [7]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I tried hunting for info about the models neo used (or made) but couldn't find anything about them, or even any other models comparable to them I could check out. All the other models of KWC I...

      I tried hunting for info about the models neo used (or made) but couldn't find anything about them, or even any other models comparable to them I could check out. All the other models of KWC I found were incredibly simplistic, and not even particularly accurate in terms of their layout.

      However, the super detailed model neo used, shown in the thumbnail, looks to have been made using a photogrammetry (photo to 3D) point-cloud program though, due to how accurate (but "fuzzy") the exterior texture of it is, and rounded/wonky every edge and corner looks up close. And given neo mentioned using Geolayers 3 (a map animating After Effects plugin) in the description, I suspect he probably made the KWC model using tons of reference photos, and Adobe Substance 3D Sampler.

      I wish he provided the model files he used though, because I would love to explore them a bit more too.

      Thanks for sharing.

      YVW! Glad you enjoyed it. :)

      And ditto, @chocobean (well deserved Exemplary for your comment. thanks for sharing your knowledge/experiences on HK and KWC!).

      4 votes
      1. [6]
        chocobean
        Link Parent
        what model, the CG model he uses throughout the video? he shows you -- it's a scan of the physical bronze (?) cast scale model that's physically at the park in HK right now...

        what model, the CG model he uses throughout the video?

        he shows you -- it's a scan of the physical bronze (?) cast scale model that's physically at the park in HK right now

        https://youtu.be/4YuNvIfM-YA?t=940

        there's a nicer image of the physical model on wikipedia

        and cross section mural of the city, by Japanese explorer Hiroaki Kani

        https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9D%E9%BE%8D%E5%AF%A8%E5%9F%8E#/media/File:The_Model_Of_Kowloon_Walled_City.jpg

        zoom in, note the roof top gardens. This wasn't just a dim and gross slum :')

        3 votes
        1. [5]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Ah, okay, I missed that part since I use SponsorBlock, which skips Sponsor sections of YouTube videos. So the 3D model he used wasn't made using reference photos, but a video he took of the bronze...

          Ah, okay, I missed that part since I use SponsorBlock, which skips Sponsor sections of YouTube videos.

          So the 3D model he used wasn't made using reference photos, but a video he took of the bronze scale model of KWC instead. Though I was right about it being a point cloud created using Adobe Substance 3D Sampler at least, since that is definitely the UI for it! ;)

          Thanks for pointing that section of the video out, I never would have seen it otherwise.

          2 votes
          1. [4]
            chocobean
            Link Parent
            that's a nifty tool, thanks for posting it :D they are getting pretty tiresome these days as thanks, here's a bonus photo of the fortress circa 1865, looking South. The little knoll has long since...

            that's a nifty tool, thanks for posting it :D they are getting pretty tiresome these days

            as thanks, here's a bonus photo of the fortress circa 1865, looking South. The little knoll has long since been used up as raw material to build the rest of HK. Photo credit to Greg Girard and his excellent book on KWC, "City of Darkness" p158

            1 vote
            1. [3]
              cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Yeah, SponsorBlock is awesome. It has a bunch of other categories that you can configure in various ways too. Although as you see above, sometimes you do miss out on stuff because of it. But it's...

              Yeah, SponsorBlock is awesome. It has a bunch of other categories that you can configure in various ways too. Although as you see above, sometimes you do miss out on stuff because of it. But it's still well worth using despite that, IMO, since YouTube videos are inundated with paid sponsor segments these days, and so many music videos have long non-music sections in them which suck for putting in playlists without a skip feature.

              And thanks for the additional pic. That's super cool. p.s. Apparently that photography book is $189 on Amazon for the paperback, and $408 for the hardcover! Don't you just love out of print books prices? :P

              1 vote
              1. [2]
                chocobean
                Link Parent
                Wow that's crazy! A signed (new edition) copy from the original photographer is only $90!! https://www.greggirardpictures.com/product/city-of-darkness-revisited-with-slipcase

                Wow that's crazy! A signed (new edition) copy from the original photographer is only $90!! https://www.greggirardpictures.com/product/city-of-darkness-revisited-with-slipcase

                1 vote
                1. cfabbro
                  Link Parent
                  Oh nice, I didn't realize there was a reprint. That's a much better option.

                  Oh nice, I didn't realize there was a reprint. That's a much better option.

                  1 vote
  3. [2]
    Bront
    Link
    I am lucky to have visited Warehouse Kawasaki, a 5 story arcade in Japan that was closely designed to look like Kowloon. They reference it in the linked video. The first two floors were especially...

    I am lucky to have visited Warehouse Kawasaki, a 5 story arcade in Japan that was closely designed to look like Kowloon. They reference it in the linked video. The first two floors were especially designed for an immersive experience.

    Sadly, it closed in 2019. You can find some video tours online if you are interested in what it looked like.

    5 votes
    1. balooga
      Link Parent
      Argh, it closed in 2019?! I remember hearing about it when it opened but missed this news. I've never been to Japan but I hoped to check that place out if/when I ever did. I'm really bummed now....

      Argh, it closed in 2019?! I remember hearing about it when it opened but missed this news. I've never been to Japan but I hoped to check that place out if/when I ever did. I'm really bummed now. Though honestly these days I'm not really surprised anymore to hear that cool attractions didn't survive the pandemic. It was probably a mercy for them that they shuttered before then.

      1 vote
  4. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    Another interesting video on Kowloon Walled City: DamiLee - The Densest City In The World Had A (Strange) Secret It covers some of the same ground as the originally submitted video, but Dami Lee...

    Another interesting video on Kowloon Walled City:
    DamiLee - The Densest City In The World Had A (Strange) Secret

    It covers some of the same ground as the originally submitted video, but Dami Lee is an architect so the video is more focused on things relevant to that, as well as on the community/social aspects of the city. And it also has a bunch of cool diagrams, maps, photos, and even some video footage as well.

    cc: @chocobean

    4 votes
  5. balooga
    Link
    Great video! I first learned about Kowloon Walled City in the game Shenmue II, of all places. The game takes some artistic liberties, and it's limited by the technology of 2001 (notably in...

    Great video! I first learned about Kowloon Walled City in the game Shenmue II, of all places. The game takes some artistic liberties, and it's limited by the technology of 2001 (notably in depicting NPC density) but it was still really fascinating to explore [a fictionalized version of] this place I'd never heard of before.

    In the game you spend a lot of time wandering the halls and market stalls of various buildings, getting tangled up with gangs and street fights, navigating abandoned skyscraper ruins. Here's a timestamped video showing some of what I'm talking about. As a westerner it blew my mind that there was, or once had been, a place so thick with high-rises that they connected and intertwined with each other, where things like tea shops and orphanages and pet stores were located in tiny apartments high up within these buildings. Where everything is drab concrete and snaking electrical cables and garish signs everywhere.

    Honestly it sounds like a pretty unsafe, unhygienic place in real life. As much as I enjoyed the romanticized depiction of it in the game I don't think I'd actually want to spend much time there. Happy to learn more about it though and I love hearing firsthand accounts of what it was actually like, like @chocobean's comment — thanks for posting it!

    2 votes