23 votes

Podcast: a History of Modern Palestine

American Prestige did a series on the History of Modern Palestine. The first episode is always public, but they have unlocked the remaining episodes for this week in light of current events.

I listened to this back when it was posted and learned a lot about the role of colonial powers in the formation of Israel and Palestine and the way Palestinians are being treated today. The viewpoint is is not anti-Semitic but it is also not pro-Israel. For example, they discuss Israel's (then) current treatment of the Palestinians as apartheid.

I can't imagine what it would be like to live in those conditions. I don't mean to condone terrorist violence, but set against the background of the oppression in Palestine, it's hard to imagine what people might be driven to.

15 comments

  1. [10]
    moriarty
    Link
    I would actually recommended the Martyr Made podcast as a more balanced view of the conflict, if you want to understand both sides.

    I would actually recommended the Martyr Made podcast as a more balanced view of the conflict, if you want to understand both sides.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      FluffyKittens
      Link Parent
      I fully second the recommendation for Matrymade's Fear & Loathing (zionist history) and My Lai episodes, but as a heads up for new listeners, the host went full Greenwald and turned openly...

      I fully second the recommendation for Matrymade's Fear & Loathing (zionist history) and My Lai episodes, but as a heads up for new listeners, the host went full Greenwald and turned openly alt-rightish a few years back.

      Darryl was always a bit of a twitter troll, but around 2018 he landed an appearance on Tucker Carlson, got hooked on the attention, and fell in the deep end. Podcast quality took a nosedive around the same time IMO, towards the end of the Jim Jones series, and especially after he started partnering up with Jocko.

      The guy is such an interesting case study in the duality of man: he's obviously extremely intelligent and well-read, yet randomly drops some absolutely WTF hot takes on a consistent basis. I honest-to-god believe he's just been put to sleep a few too many times/suffered some hard takedowns while rolling and has some brain damage going on.

      6 votes
      1. frailtomato
        Link Parent
        Interesting - I actually saw him recommended here a few days back, and noped out as soon as I saw Jocko Willink was involved. The early episodes are still ok though?

        Interesting - I actually saw him recommended here a few days back, and noped out as soon as I saw Jocko Willink was involved. The early episodes are still ok though?

        3 votes
      2. moriarty
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Oh seriously?! I had no idea. I just found it online and thought it was a good (and not overly detailed) summary. Thanks for letting us know! EDIT: The more I think about it the more I'm pissed...

        Oh seriously?! I had no idea. I just found it online and thought it was a good (and not overly detailed) summary. Thanks for letting us know!
        EDIT: The more I think about it the more I'm pissed off about this revelation. This means I cannot in good conscious recommend this to anyone (even though it really is good) without being thought of as a Trumper 😭

        2 votes
    2. [4]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        moriarty
        Link Parent
        As @FluffyKittens mentioned, this isn't really what he's doing, I think that might be your interpretation. But I also think no narrative can be balanced without mentioned the jewish bond to the...

        the mention of 1300 years seems like they're linking it to the founding of Islam

        As @FluffyKittens mentioned, this isn't really what he's doing, I think that might be your interpretation. But I also think no narrative can be balanced without mentioned the jewish bond to the land. Jews who lived in this area were exiled and returned multiple times - the last of which were the Babylonian exile around 586BC and the Roman exile which stretched several centuries from the destruction of the second temple by Rome (70AD) to the Christian kingdoms who inherited it. That 1300 number represents the tail end of that exile, not the beginning of Islam.

        human settlement of the Levant has been dated back to 2 million-ish years ago, and Natufian culture to 15,000ish years. I kind of hope that description isn't an accurate summary of the podcast because if the claim they're making is that non-Jewish people "moved in" 1300 years ago that is frighteningly misleadin

        Again, I think this is your interpretation. While human settlement has started a long time ago, those people have not survived to this day [to lay claim].
        I generally find ownership claims to the land a little ridiculous, but this is a representation of the beliefs of a great deal of the Jewish public and it would be irresponsible not to include it.

        4 votes
        1. ignorabimus
          Link Parent
          To add to this, I think the only sensible way to interpret the conflict is to look at the outcomes and sort of disregard the stated motivations both sides provide.

          To add to this, I think the only sensible way to interpret the conflict is to look at the outcomes and sort of disregard the stated motivations both sides provide.

          2 votes
      2. FluffyKittens
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Despite my Martyrmade-content-warning elsewhere in the thread, the zionism series is actually pretty damn evenhanded, and in line with most other sources I've read. It does a good job of exploring...

        Despite my Martyrmade-content-warning elsewhere in the thread, the zionism series is actually pretty damn evenhanded, and in line with most other sources I've read. It does a good job of exploring the human motivations on both sides, without dipping into a reductionist "both sides" moral equivalency.

        That reading of the first episode description is not where the narrative goes.

        Al-Nakba and the zionist paramilitary shenanigans (e.g. King David bombing) in the run-up are covered in heavy detail - keep in mind all the episodes are many hours long.

        1 vote
    3. [3]
      ignorabimus
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I am always skeptical of podcasts[1] but I have to say (from a source analysis point of view) that the OPs podcast has some expert involvement (from a professor of history) whereast Martyr Made...

      I am always skeptical of podcasts[1] but I have to say (from a source analysis point of view) that the OPs podcast has some expert involvement (from a professor of history) whereast Martyr Made seems to be a (possibly valliant) effort by amateurs.

      [1]: I think by nature they are a lot less rigorous than actual books where there is at least some quality control in the form of an editor, and academics tend to review other academic works, so the errors tend to get picked up on.

      5 votes
      1. [2]
        moriarty
        Link Parent
        [1] Oh absolutely. But podcasts are the most commitment I can expect from anyone who hasn't literally lived through this conflict (or is an academic) As for the source analysis, I agree with you....

        [1] Oh absolutely. But podcasts are the most commitment I can expect from anyone who hasn't literally lived through this conflict (or is an academic)

        As for the source analysis, I agree with you. Though in addition to the professional merits you must also consider the pedigree of the source - Rashid Khalidi is Palestinian. While that doesn't disqualify him from writing about this history, I would be a little skeptical about whether the narrative he's exposing really represents the full picture.

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. moriarty
            Link Parent
            Absolutely I would. But I feel uncomfortable saying this before listening to his content and forming an opinion, so maybe let me rephrase - I would search for prominent sources from both...

            Absolutely I would. But I feel uncomfortable saying this before listening to his content and forming an opinion, so maybe let me rephrase - I would search for prominent sources from both narratives to form a more complete picture.

            2 votes
  2. [2]
    ignorabimus
    Link
    I would highly recommentd Ian Black's Enemies and Neighbors which gives a comprehensive high-level overview of Arab-Israeli relations over the past ~100 years.

    I would highly recommentd Ian Black's Enemies and Neighbors which gives a comprehensive high-level overview of Arab-Israeli relations over the past ~100 years.

    1 vote
    1. first-must-burn
      Link Parent
      They have it on Downpour, so I will check it out.

      They have it on Downpour, so I will check it out.

      1 vote
  3. [2]
    pyeri
    Link
    If you go back enough in history, everything can be eventually blamed on the British Colonizers!

    If you go back enough in history, everything can be eventually blamed on the British Colonizers!

    1 vote
    1. first-must-burn
      Link Parent
      It's been a while since I listened to it, but in this case, a factor was Britain no longer being a global power after WWII and having to do what the Americans wanted.

      It's been a while since I listened to it, but in this case, a factor was Britain no longer being a global power after WWII and having to do what the Americans wanted.

  4. Lloyd
    Link
    This is awesome! Thank you!

    This is awesome! Thank you!

    1 vote