I got to thinking about this a bit, so I did some exploring of Google Streetview of Pokalwada, Telangana, India, and compared it to Chester, PA, USA. Chester was chosen because it was very close...
I got to thinking about this a bit, so I did some exploring of Google Streetview of Pokalwada, Telangana, India, and compared it to Chester, PA, USA. Chester was chosen because it was very close to my old home. The location in India was arbitrarily chosen at the beginning by scrolling in from the globe.
Whilst on the surface Chester looks a bit nicer, there's something major to consider.
Telangana has a cognizable offense rate of about 445/100,000. Chester, Pennsylvania has a rate of about 1400/100000. Even all of Pennsylvania's is around 350. Puts it in the middle of the pack. California has about the same violent crime rate as Telangana.
This tells me there's a level of desperation in the USA that is comparable to India, at least in some parts. And considering how India is frequently cited as one of the places with the biggest problems of income inequality, it makes me think we're not as different as I was lead to believe. Our nation's wealth is obviously not buying us safety. This is obviously an incomplete picture on both sides of things, but I'm 5x more likely to be murdered in Chester than in a random impoverished area of India, which is almost the exact opposite of the cultural zeitgeist I was raised with.
I suspect the only reason we don't see the same shanty buildings in the USA that we do in India is because in the USA building shanties (and being homeless in general) is heavily criminalized. There's decent odds you'll be spending a night in jail if you get caught sleeping in a public park without a pre-approved permit, let alone if you built a scrap shelter on a vacant lot.
I'm not going to argue that the USA doesn't need to do better for its citizens, but I will say that the number of convictions is not at all the same as the number of offenses. Even within the USA...
I'm not going to argue that the USA doesn't need to do better for its citizens, but I will say that the number of convictions is not at all the same as the number of offenses. Even within the USA there are distinctly different rates at which crimes are reported, based on numerous factors including severity, community insularity, and trust in law enforcement. I wasn't able to find good sources for the difference between offenses and convictions in India, but I assume a similar situation exists?
Possibly, but the US data at least is reports. We also know that US conviction rate for murders is approximately 60%. The USA is also really bad at reporting a lot of crime data. I have no doubts...
Possibly, but the US data at least is reports. We also know that US conviction rate for murders is approximately 60%. The USA is also really bad at reporting a lot of crime data. I have no doubts India is the same in this regard.
My point though wasn't to push a narrative of equivalence, exactly. I mostly wanted to illustrate how its probably within an order of magnitude rather than an "it doesn't happen here" situation...which is the narrative I was taught as a child/young adult. A narrative I still see echoed in a lot of American media outlets.
Not trying to be a dick but some of your comparisons are a little odd. You're comparing an affluent suburb in one of the nicest states in India to a city that, per wikipedia, has "...devolved into...
Not trying to be a dick but some of your comparisons are a little odd. You're comparing an affluent suburb in one of the nicest states in India to a city that, per wikipedia, has "...devolved into a post-industrial city struggling with pollution, poverty, and crime" and has one of the highest crime rates in the country, let alone the state.
In India, the top 1% of the population controls 58% of the country's wealth. (in the US it's about 35%, which is still bad.)
Like I said, its somewhat arbitrary, especially since I don't know India. Keep in mind that Chester PA is less than 5 miles from multiple million-dollar homes. Center of Chester is about a 20...
Like I said, its somewhat arbitrary, especially since I don't know India. Keep in mind that Chester PA is less than 5 miles from multiple million-dollar homes. Center of Chester is about a 20 minute walk to multiple $600,000 homes.
Also...the population of India's 1% is 14 million. The population of America's 1% is 3.5 million. That population difference (and density) alone could explain a lot of the 58% vs 35%, considering how exponentially the wealth curves move as they approach the top 0.1%.
I got to thinking about this a bit, so I did some exploring of Google Streetview of Pokalwada, Telangana, India, and compared it to Chester, PA, USA. Chester was chosen because it was very close to my old home. The location in India was arbitrarily chosen at the beginning by scrolling in from the globe.
Whilst on the surface Chester looks a bit nicer, there's something major to consider.
Telangana has a cognizable offense rate of about 445/100,000. Chester, Pennsylvania has a rate of about 1400/100000. Even all of Pennsylvania's is around 350. Puts it in the middle of the pack. California has about the same violent crime rate as Telangana.
This tells me there's a level of desperation in the USA that is comparable to India, at least in some parts. And considering how India is frequently cited as one of the places with the biggest problems of income inequality, it makes me think we're not as different as I was lead to believe. Our nation's wealth is obviously not buying us safety. This is obviously an incomplete picture on both sides of things, but I'm 5x more likely to be murdered in Chester than in a random impoverished area of India, which is almost the exact opposite of the cultural zeitgeist I was raised with.
I suspect the only reason we don't see the same shanty buildings in the USA that we do in India is because in the USA building shanties (and being homeless in general) is heavily criminalized. There's decent odds you'll be spending a night in jail if you get caught sleeping in a public park without a pre-approved permit, let alone if you built a scrap shelter on a vacant lot.
I'm not going to argue that the USA doesn't need to do better for its citizens, but I will say that the number of convictions is not at all the same as the number of offenses. Even within the USA there are distinctly different rates at which crimes are reported, based on numerous factors including severity, community insularity, and trust in law enforcement. I wasn't able to find good sources for the difference between offenses and convictions in India, but I assume a similar situation exists?
Possibly, but the US data at least is reports. We also know that US conviction rate for murders is approximately 60%. The USA is also really bad at reporting a lot of crime data. I have no doubts India is the same in this regard.
My point though wasn't to push a narrative of equivalence, exactly. I mostly wanted to illustrate how its probably within an order of magnitude rather than an "it doesn't happen here" situation...which is the narrative I was taught as a child/young adult. A narrative I still see echoed in a lot of American media outlets.
Yeah, definitely. It absolutely happens here.
Not trying to be a dick but some of your comparisons are a little odd. You're comparing an affluent suburb in one of the nicest states in India to a city that, per wikipedia, has "...devolved into a post-industrial city struggling with pollution, poverty, and crime" and has one of the highest crime rates in the country, let alone the state.
In India, the top 1% of the population controls 58% of the country's wealth. (in the US it's about 35%, which is still bad.)
Like I said, its somewhat arbitrary, especially since I don't know India. Keep in mind that Chester PA is less than 5 miles from multiple million-dollar homes. Center of Chester is about a 20 minute walk to multiple $600,000 homes.
Also...the population of India's 1% is 14 million. The population of America's 1% is 3.5 million. That population difference (and density) alone could explain a lot of the 58% vs 35%, considering how exponentially the wealth curves move as they approach the top 0.1%.
(Not doubting India's is still worse btw)