Having finished The Expanse up to the end of season 3, I was looking over some reviews and opinions on the show thus far, and found I agree with a lot of what I read in this article. While it...
Having finished The Expanse up to the end of season 3, I was looking over some reviews and opinions on the show thus far, and found I agree with a lot of what I read in this article. While it doesn't go into as much detail as it could in the bios of each of the female characters it references, it does highlight how the show treats its women in a mature and multilayered way, and how heroism within the show is not restricted to traditionally masculine tropes.
My favorite characters are all women. Frankie Adams plays the Martian special forces bad ass, Shohreh Aghdashlo plays the bad ass politician with the gravely voice, and Cara Gee plays the belter...
My favorite characters are all women. Frankie Adams plays the Martian special forces bad ass, Shohreh Aghdashlo plays the bad ass politician with the gravely voice, and Cara Gee plays the belter captain Carina Drummer. Don’t know why, but Drummer is my favorite character.
Ditto! For me it's largely because she initially comes across as just a stereotypical, shallow, poorly written female hero character (i.e. one-dimensional "badass" male hero character but...
Don’t know why, but Drummer is my favorite character.
Ditto! For me it's largely because she initially comes across as just a stereotypical, shallow, poorly written female hero character (i.e. one-dimensional "badass" male hero character but rewritten as a female) but as you get to know her throughout the series you come to realize there is so much more depth to her character. She is outwardly cold and calculating, largely because she needs to be to survive and thrive in the unforgiving world of the hard-line OPA, but underneath her gruff exterior she is also exhibits tremendous compassion and empathy. She is also a great leader who puts her crew's well-being above her own, is actually willing to listen to her subordinates, and as the article points out has "intuitive skills for people". So despite the initial impression you get of her, she actually turns out to be a well rounded and nuanced character. Plus, she is a total badass. ;)
Is it because Drummer combines both aspects of those characters? Bobbie is rarely calling shots that impact more than just her immediate surroundings. She's a soldier in the field risking her...
Is it because Drummer combines both aspects of those characters?
Bobbie is rarely calling shots that impact more than just her immediate surroundings. She's a soldier in the field risking her life. Avasarala is making key decisions that impact only thousands of people if it's a minor choice. Her stakes are often less personal but much higher.
Drummer does both. She's in a key position of power on a space station and later a ship. Her decisions directly impact thousands, but she's also risking her life directly and facing those risks head on.
She's also arguably one of the biggest baddasses on the show. Just about the only person to have taken as much of a beating as Drummer has is Bobbie, and even then, it's a bit of a toss up. And Drummer just keeps on going.
I also think Drummer has yet to make a dumb decision, which is something even in this well written show, can't be said for everyone. And that certainly makes a character likeable.
Reading this, and thinking back to the show (watched all 3 seasons), I realize that it's not just that the women are complex and realistic characters doing heroic and self-reliant things, it's...
Reading this, and thinking back to the show (watched all 3 seasons), I realize that it's not just that the women are complex and realistic characters doing heroic and self-reliant things, it's also that the men are portrayed as if they find this completely natural. It's not just women 'stepping up' or something, it's a whole world where 'man = more respect and higher expectations' does not seem to hold. Which makes the men better role models as well.
Or am I looking back through rose-tinted glasses now?
No, I think that's fair. Even if we constrain ourselves to just the Rocinante crew & company, this analysis holds. Amos follows Naomi, but they're relationship is strictly platonic. Amos actually...
No, I think that's fair. Even if we constrain ourselves to just the Rocinante crew & company, this analysis holds.
Amos follows Naomi, but they're relationship is strictly platonic. Amos actually seems pretty egalitarian, stating at one point "... there are three kinds of people in the world: bad ones, ones you follow, and ones you need to protect." He puts Naomi in the "Follow" category but Alex he put in the "Protect" category, not necessarily what you'd expect if he had a more "conventional" view.
Naomi in comparison is often seen as a somewhat dissenting voice, but this isn't because she's the only woman on the crew (until Draper arrives), it's because she's the only Belter. And even though she has a sexual relationship with one of the others, this isn't used as a tool for leverage or gain by either, and is such a non-issue with the crew that Amos and Alex joke about it.
Alex is just Alex. The only girl for him is the Rocinante. Although obviously he has a connection with Bobbie, as they're both Martians, but that respect comes from their mutual respect for each other's skills and background. And Bobbie seems to respect everyone about as much as you'd expect. Either way I look forward to seeing her develop as one of the crew as the show goes on.
I haven't read the books yet, so hard to point to a direct "cause," but maybe one point worth noting is that as a side-effect of colonizing the solar system, this creates drastic changes in human biology. The old conventional ideas on biology and the sexes doesn't apply anymore. Sure, our culture might now have developed the way it is because men are inherently stronger than women, but when an Earth man is stronger than any Martian or Belter man or woman, or a Martian woman is stronger than a Belter man, these values are challenged. (And sure, the use of different planets of origin was obviously a metaphor for racism, but it's still an interesting point I think.) There's the fact that in an environment with scarce resources, scarcer than Earth has ever known, women take up less of them. There's the fact that one ship with ten women could produce ten babies, but one ship with ten men can produce zero babies. So many potential aspects of space and colonization could shift the social balance of power. Perhaps this is why, in contrast to say, Game of Thrones, we never see sex used as a way to manipulate or as social currency. Perhaps there's no need.
Your readings of the characters (also in the comment above, replying to @Adams) are spot-on, I think. But here I'd like to think otherwise. Men in The Expanse (at least within each specific...
I haven't read the books yet, so hard to point to a direct "cause," but maybe one point worth noting is that as a side-effect of colonizing the solar system, this creates drastic changes in human biology. The old conventional ideas on biology and the sexes doesn't apply anymore.
Your readings of the characters (also in the comment above, replying to @Adams) are spot-on, I think. But here I'd like to think otherwise. Men in The Expanse (at least within each specific context) are (on average) similarly more physically powerful than the women (on average) as we are now. I see the way these people interact much more as the result of a society that has simply developed a more just ideology in this regard. The men still seem in a position to overpower women. And macho culture certainly isn't gone (c.f. the racer character who gets splashed entering the ring and his girlfriend, or whatshisname, the rogue Belter commando-kid with the dark curly hair). But in many places, it just doesn't seem to come into the minds of the guys to see women (or into the minds of women to see themselves) as somehow less.
Having finished The Expanse up to the end of season 3, I was looking over some reviews and opinions on the show thus far, and found I agree with a lot of what I read in this article. While it doesn't go into as much detail as it could in the bios of each of the female characters it references, it does highlight how the show treats its women in a mature and multilayered way, and how heroism within the show is not restricted to traditionally masculine tropes.
My favorite characters are all women. Frankie Adams plays the Martian special forces bad ass, Shohreh Aghdashlo plays the bad ass politician with the gravely voice, and Cara Gee plays the belter captain Carina Drummer. Don’t know why, but Drummer is my favorite character.
Ditto! For me it's largely because she initially comes across as just a stereotypical, shallow, poorly written female hero character (i.e. one-dimensional "badass" male hero character but rewritten as a female) but as you get to know her throughout the series you come to realize there is so much more depth to her character. She is outwardly cold and calculating, largely because she needs to be to survive and thrive in the unforgiving world of the hard-line OPA, but underneath her gruff exterior she is also exhibits tremendous compassion and empathy. She is also a great leader who puts her crew's well-being above her own, is actually willing to listen to her subordinates, and as the article points out has "intuitive skills for people". So despite the initial impression you get of her, she actually turns out to be a well rounded and nuanced character. Plus, she is a total badass. ;)
Is it because Drummer combines both aspects of those characters?
Bobbie is rarely calling shots that impact more than just her immediate surroundings. She's a soldier in the field risking her life. Avasarala is making key decisions that impact only thousands of people if it's a minor choice. Her stakes are often less personal but much higher.
Drummer does both. She's in a key position of power on a space station and later a ship. Her decisions directly impact thousands, but she's also risking her life directly and facing those risks head on.
She's also arguably one of the biggest baddasses on the show. Just about the only person to have taken as much of a beating as Drummer has is Bobbie, and even then, it's a bit of a toss up. And Drummer just keeps on going.
I also think Drummer has yet to make a dumb decision, which is something even in this well written show, can't be said for everyone. And that certainly makes a character likeable.
Reading this, and thinking back to the show (watched all 3 seasons), I realize that it's not just that the women are complex and realistic characters doing heroic and self-reliant things, it's also that the men are portrayed as if they find this completely natural. It's not just women 'stepping up' or something, it's a whole world where 'man = more respect and higher expectations' does not seem to hold. Which makes the men better role models as well.
Or am I looking back through rose-tinted glasses now?
No, I think that's fair. Even if we constrain ourselves to just the Rocinante crew & company, this analysis holds.
Amos follows Naomi, but they're relationship is strictly platonic. Amos actually seems pretty egalitarian, stating at one point "... there are three kinds of people in the world: bad ones, ones you follow, and ones you need to protect." He puts Naomi in the "Follow" category but Alex he put in the "Protect" category, not necessarily what you'd expect if he had a more "conventional" view.
Naomi in comparison is often seen as a somewhat dissenting voice, but this isn't because she's the only woman on the crew (until Draper arrives), it's because she's the only Belter. And even though she has a sexual relationship with one of the others, this isn't used as a tool for leverage or gain by either, and is such a non-issue with the crew that Amos and Alex joke about it.
Alex is just Alex. The only girl for him is the Rocinante. Although obviously he has a connection with Bobbie, as they're both Martians, but that respect comes from their mutual respect for each other's skills and background. And Bobbie seems to respect everyone about as much as you'd expect. Either way I look forward to seeing her develop as one of the crew as the show goes on.
I haven't read the books yet, so hard to point to a direct "cause," but maybe one point worth noting is that as a side-effect of colonizing the solar system, this creates drastic changes in human biology. The old conventional ideas on biology and the sexes doesn't apply anymore. Sure, our culture might now have developed the way it is because men are inherently stronger than women, but when an Earth man is stronger than any Martian or Belter man or woman, or a Martian woman is stronger than a Belter man, these values are challenged. (And sure, the use of different planets of origin was obviously a metaphor for racism, but it's still an interesting point I think.) There's the fact that in an environment with scarce resources, scarcer than Earth has ever known, women take up less of them. There's the fact that one ship with ten women could produce ten babies, but one ship with ten men can produce zero babies. So many potential aspects of space and colonization could shift the social balance of power. Perhaps this is why, in contrast to say, Game of Thrones, we never see sex used as a way to manipulate or as social currency. Perhaps there's no need.
Your readings of the characters (also in the comment above, replying to @Adams) are spot-on, I think. But here I'd like to think otherwise. Men in The Expanse (at least within each specific context) are (on average) similarly more physically powerful than the women (on average) as we are now. I see the way these people interact much more as the result of a society that has simply developed a more just ideology in this regard. The men still seem in a position to overpower women. And macho culture certainly isn't gone (c.f. the racer character who gets splashed entering the ring and his girlfriend, or whatshisname, the rogue Belter commando-kid with the dark curly hair). But in many places, it just doesn't seem to come into the minds of the guys to see women (or into the minds of women to see themselves) as somehow less.