31 votes

Incels

11 comments

  1. dubteedub
    (edited )
    Link
    Natalie as expected does a great job discussing the incel communities, how they describe themselves, what their beliefs are, and provides a good bit of humor along with the analysis. Hearing...

    Natalie as expected does a great job discussing the incel communities, how they describe themselves, what their beliefs are, and provides a good bit of humor along with the analysis.

    Hearing someone read the posts from Reddit's incel communities outloud are equal parts vile, darkly funny, and sad. The one guy obsessing over his wrist size in particular is just insane when you hear someone read it outloud.

    Edit: I also really appreciate the way that Natalie relates her transition as a trans person to the incels. The way she compares how both of them obsess over skull shapes and seeking out negative comments is particularly poignant.

    16 votes
  2. [3]
    clerical_terrors
    Link
    I started taking notice of Reddit's own incel community some four years or so ago, looking for people who felt the same as me. Back then it was already well on it's way to a point of no return,...

    I started taking notice of Reddit's own incel community some four years or so ago, looking for people who felt the same as me. Back then it was already well on it's way to a point of no return, but it was still mostly guys taking "Forever Alone" to an absurd level of seriousness and reinforcing each other's depressive worldview. Over time language from /r9k/ crept it's way into the general discourse and things took and ever more hateful and destructive slant. Reddit sometimes has this weird effect where a community will latch on to a particular idea or meme with such vigor that almost every single post has to one-up the previous one in intensity. First violence was the unthinkable extreme, then it became the normal extreme, then it became normal, finally it became aspirational.

    I turned heel and ran away from /r/incels almost as soon as found it, but years later, while I was moderating /r/trollychromosome I suddenly ran into people trying to post incel memes or attempting to recruit people who posted about their feelings of loneliness and rejection. At that point the whole incel thing had gone essentially from a lonely hearts club to a violent death cult who didn't eschew people like Elliot Rodger, but embraced and idolized him with all layers of irony torn down.

    This is a great video, it very well explains both the origins of the term as well as the feelings that lead people to adopt such extreme views, but the thing I'm missing is the fact that "the black pill" is no longer just a jokey name for a muddily defined philosophy for incels, it's become something the actively advocate and seek to spread. It's why they were so incredibly pissed /r/incels got banned, why they got so pissed whenever I removed their comments or posts: they want to reach out and find more people.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      kori_bustard
      Link Parent
      I'm not as privy to the incel culture as some, but something I did see was a ton of suicide jokes. Now, I'm not against black humor, I've had some dark periods in my life and joking around about...

      I'm not as privy to the incel culture as some, but something I did see was a ton of suicide jokes. Now, I'm not against black humor, I've had some dark periods in my life and joking around about my depression did feel helpful at the time, but I don't think I've ever seen a page of incels/braincels content that didn't have at least one person calling something "sui fuel" or commenting that "it's over". I wonder how many of those people, having their depression and self-loathing stoked by the community they went to for understanding, finally took the bait.

      It's so tragic.

      4 votes
      1. clerical_terrors
        Link Parent
        Like the video said: it can be extremely tempting to trick yourself into believing that the people insulting and degrading you are 'actually being honest'. So people might take the bait precisely...

        Like the video said: it can be extremely tempting to trick yourself into believing that the people insulting and degrading you are 'actually being honest'. So people might take the bait precisely because they think that stoking those feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing is somebody finally getting it and giving it to them straight.

        The irony is: in a lot of ways even the "sui feel" and reinforcement of negative feelings aren't really honest but difficult truths they just need to swallow. It's simply another way of coddling and comforting themselves, but rather then with faux-positivity it's done through vitriolic despair.

        The real 'red pill' for them would be realizing they've created this toxic mindscape on their own and they're the only people who can ever get themselves out of it.

        3 votes
  3. [3]
    Catt
    Link
    Finally got a chance to finish this. It was really well done. I honestly don't really have anything resembling empathy for incels, but this video really explained a lot for me.

    Finally got a chance to finish this. It was really well done. I honestly don't really have anything resembling empathy for incels, but this video really explained a lot for me.

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      dubteedub
      Link Parent
      Yeah, it was honestly the most honest examination of them that I have seen. It didn't insult or enable incels, but really went in deep on their worldview, which is something I havent really seen...

      Yeah, it was honestly the most honest examination of them that I have seen.

      It didn't insult or enable incels, but really went in deep on their worldview, which is something I havent really seen before.

      I really appreciated the comparisons to being trans and obsessing over your body / skull shape. Natalie really drove the point home by saying she had to block those sites from her browser for her own mental health.

      There was also a lot of great discussion on this video and people relating to it on reddit at r/menslib if anyone else is interested in hearing some more perspectives.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/9847pu/incels_contrapoints

      7 votes
      1. Catt
        Link Parent
        I really like the comparison to being trans too, and felt it added a lot to helping put things in perceptive. I also found the part about catastrophic thinking really interesting too. Thanks for...

        I really like the comparison to being trans too, and felt it added a lot to helping put things in perceptive. I also found the part about catastrophic thinking really interesting too.

        Thanks for the additional link too.

        4 votes
  4. [3]
    Flashynuff
    Link
    I unfortunately don't have time today to check out what you posted, but I'd like to share a great documentary on incels that I surprisingly haven't seen around much: Shy Boys The incredible thing...

    I unfortunately don't have time today to check out what you posted, but I'd like to share a great documentary on incels that I surprisingly haven't seen around much:

    Shy Boys

    The incredible thing about this documentary is that it was filmed in 2011, well before the term 'incels' had even begun to hit the mainstream. I think it approaches the subjects of the documentary in a neutral way and lets you draw your own conclusions from their behavior.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      dubteedub
      Link Parent
      Nice, thanks for sharing that. I will check it out. I really recommend taking some time to check out this Contrapoints video when you have a chance. There was another recent video I saw on Incels...

      Nice, thanks for sharing that. I will check it out.

      I really recommend taking some time to check out this Contrapoints video when you have a chance.

      There was another recent video I saw on Incels by Vice where they went to an incel's home and interviewed him and recorded him interacting with some other incels online.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oliq8m8Qph0

      6 votes
      1. Flashynuff
        Link Parent
        I finally watched the Contrapoints video last night, and I just have to say, wow. She did a fantastic job of breaking down what incels' worldview is, how it works, and why it's deeply and...

        I finally watched the Contrapoints video last night, and I just have to say, wow. She did a fantastic job of breaking down what incels' worldview is, how it works, and why it's deeply and fundamentally flawed. I appreciate that it did not feel like a 'haha look at these losers' sort of video -- I'm sure there are plenty of nice but troubled men who have fallen deep into the black pill pit, and attacking them will do nothing but drive them further in.

        4 votes
  5. Kom
    Link
    just finished watching the video, that was absolutely amazing with a heaping dose of terrifying. I feel sorry for the guys who recognise they need help (the one that called the hotline) but can't...

    just finished watching the video, that was absolutely amazing with a heaping dose of terrifying.
    I feel sorry for the guys who recognise they need help (the one that called the hotline) but can't seem to take the extra step, hopefully a few are able to step away from the depression feeding forums and make some sort of change in their lives

    2 votes