This is pretty incontrovertible evidence IMO. In the recording you can also hear an unidentified person exclaim “oh my gosh” after she reads the papers.
This is pretty incontrovertible evidence IMO.
Trump’s statements on the audio recording, saying “these are the papers” and referring to something he calls “highly confidential” and seems to be showing others in the room, could undercut the former president’s claims in an interview last week with Fox News’ Bret Baier that he did not have any documents with him.
In the recording you can also hear an unidentified person exclaim “oh my gosh” after she reads the papers.
Isn't the point that he says on the recording something to the effect of "I know am not supposed to have them because they are classified, and there is nothing I can do about that" ? His line of...
Isn't the point that he says on the recording something to the effect of "I know am not supposed to have them because they are classified, and there is nothing I can do about that" ?
His line of defense so far was to say that he magically declassified them, and so: no problemo.
Now that's out of the window - and it doesn't even matter that we do now what documents he is actually holding up in the recording.
And like all rich people, he'll get either: A fine that is so low that it's just a cost of doing what you do and couldn't matter any less, even if the sum is absurd for any "normal" person. A...
And like all rich people, he'll get either:
A fine that is so low that it's just a cost of doing what you do and couldn't matter any less, even if the sum is absurd for any "normal" person.
A sentence that is a conditional discharge, which is really just a "please conduct your remaining illegal shit in another country so we can pretend not to see it". And is just letting them get away entirely.
What should happen is that they build a new prison, put him in a central cell, and then construct swathes of extra prison cells around him like mouse traps, automatically catching all the fascists that'd try to storm that building next.
According to the federal sentencing guidelines, he's actually facing something like 17-22 years for these violations of the espionage act. Now of course the sentencing judge doesn't have to follow...
According to the federal sentencing guidelines, he's actually facing something like 17-22 years for these violations of the espionage act. Now of course the sentencing judge doesn't have to follow the guidelines, but many do, and long sentences aren't uncommon historically for violations under the espionage act.
Orange 45 has been a criminal for decades. He has not seen one single minute behind bars. I don't expect he will, especially after being an ex president (Which is still so very fucked up say)
Orange 45 has been a criminal for decades.
He has not seen one single minute behind bars. I don't expect he will, especially after being an ex president (Which is still so very fucked up say)
Yeah but it'll be a discharge sentence I bet, same as what happened to the VW dude in Germany now. Which is effectively just house arrest in a huge mansion, so really, yeah it's house arrest but...
Yeah but it'll be a discharge sentence I bet, same as what happened to the VW dude in Germany now. Which is effectively just house arrest in a huge mansion, so really, yeah it's house arrest but in that house it hardly matters.
I want to believe something else will happen, but... I really don't know. Doesn't feel like it. The Jan6 sentences were already woefully light for how fucked up that is, plus I have not yet heard of anyone being dragged in front of a court for inciting the crowd and with media personalities like Jones at least it's easy insofar that they recorded their own stuff and made it publicly available.
So yeah... guess 🥂 here's to hope that Trump will face remaining-life-in-an-actual-cell for this. Might at least be a deterrent to others. I just don't have a lot of hope it'll happen.
I dont have classified documents Ok i do, but the FBI Planted them No i want them back, i'm allowed to have them I mean i declassified them on the way out Nixon did it too! Was it comedy central...
His line of defense so far
I dont have classified documents
Ok i do, but the FBI Planted them
No i want them back, i'm allowed to have them
I mean i declassified them on the way out
Nixon did it too!
Was it comedy central where they want to a trump rally handing out signs to supporters that were double sided saying ~'We're not sure which version he's going to go with today, so hold up whichever sign fits the narrative today: "FBI planted the docs" or "He declassified them"'
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Yeah, the laughter by the women was appalling. "Ha! Ha! It's just treason!" The proper response would have been to contact the FBI when they were shown those documents.
Yeah, the laughter by the women was appalling. "Ha! Ha! It's just treason!" The proper response would have been to contact the FBI when they were shown those documents.
This clip is simultaneously amusing, and frightening. This is the former president and the people he's with speak to him like a child. They did not have his best interest in mind given that this...
This clip is simultaneously amusing, and frightening.
This is the former president and the people he's with speak to him like a child. They did not have his best interest in mind given that this recording exists and was given to authorities. He voluntarily showed them a classified plan of attack on another country. Imagine how easy it could be for foreign adversaries to manipulate him into doing the same with other classified docs. It's clearly possible and to an extent we don't know.
That being said I can't help but laugh that they chose to include him asking for cokes at the end of the clip.
In any other universe, this would cause him to lose all of his supporters. Unfortunately, in this one, his base will say things like: "look at what, we can't see exactly what he showed them, could...
In any other universe, this would cause him to lose all of his supporters. Unfortunately, in this one, his base will say things like: "look at what, we can't see exactly what he showed them, could be folders!" and "gee, AI voices are being admitted as evidence now?"
I really hope more of them wake up, but I'm afraid it's been too long and they're in so deep they'll just keep making excuses until the end rather than admit they're wrong and shattering their worldview.
In any other universe, the fact that he speaks incoherently, like a very young child, should have immediately excluded him from ever being under consideration for public office. I feel like I'm...
In any other universe, the fact that he speaks incoherently, like a very young child, should have immediately excluded him from ever being under consideration for public office. I feel like I'm having a stroke whoever I read a transcript of something he said.
His supporters will engage in mental gymnastics as always to defend him, but they'll never really articulate their real position. They may not even realize they hold it, but it's well summarized...
His supporters will engage in mental gymnastics as always to defend him, but they'll never really articulate their real position. They may not even realize they hold it, but it's well summarized here:
There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation. There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely. Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect...
There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
Only with Trump, there is a king. In all but name.
Isn't the problem here that without the actual papers they coudl say thery were talking aobut anything and making a joke? I mean this dude has weasled out of everyhing before hand and it doesn't...
Isn't the problem here that without the actual papers they coudl say thery were talking aobut anything and making a joke? I mean this dude has weasled out of everyhing before hand and it doesn't help when you have every secretary of state and vice president from now back to 2001 having uncontrolled documents discovered in some form.
I just keep seeing the headlines and thinking the press is like We got him this time and once again the turd is going to slip away because they've allowed too many others to do the same thing without the same results.
If this were the only piece of evidence, then yes, and I doubt any prosecutor would have charged him. But it's likely that the prosecution has other means of verifying that he actually was waving...
Isn't the problem here that without the actual papers they coudl say thery were talking aobut anything and making a joke?
If this were the only piece of evidence, then yes, and I doubt any prosecutor would have charged him. But it's likely that the prosecution has other means of verifying that he actually was waving around government property. For example, there's probably a witness who can attest to the document's contents -- after all, we still don't know how the government came to possess this tape.
Regardless, this is just one scandalous piece of evidence among many. Let's not forget that he recently went on television admitting that he knowingly withheld documents that needed to be returned (ie, the crime), but he didn't get around to it because he was "too busy" (ie, golfing).
I mean, two of his criminal defense lawyers resigned as soon as he was indicted! Like, it's literally their job to defend him, and they decided the case was hopeless before it even began. It's hard to imagine a worse sign for Trump.
I agree with you, except the last paragraph. They didn't resigned because he was hopeless, they resigned because from the indictment looks like he used them to commit another crime. If they would...
I agree with you, except the last paragraph.
They didn't resigned because he was hopeless, they resigned because from the indictment looks like he used them to commit another crime. If they would continue representing him they likely would end up being defenders as well. From indictment it looked like they weren't aware of being used, but now they are.
Yes, fair point; that was a bit of editorializing on my part. Of course we don't know exactly why they resigned, but it's likely a combination of the following factors: they didn't appreciate...
Yes, fair point; that was a bit of editorializing on my part. Of course we don't know exactly why they resigned, but it's likely a combination of the following factors:
they didn't appreciate being used to further a crime (as you said),
they doubted Trump will listen to their advice (eg, stop admitting to the crimes on national tv),
they disagreed with the strategy of Trump's other legal counsel (Boris Epshteyn), who seems to be encouraging this media blitz,
their proximity to Trump is damaging their relationships with other clients, and
Anderson Cooper said the author and publisher of Mark Meadows' memoir was present and they knew they were being recorded. I took that to mean it was likely recorded by the author for the book....
Anderson Cooper said the author and publisher of Mark Meadows' memoir was present and they knew they were being recorded. I took that to mean it was likely recorded by the author for the book. There were quite a few authors writing books (and recording interviews) during/after the Trump presidency. Seems likely that subpoenas were used to acquire the recordings. And those authors will likely show up as witnesses.
Admittedly that's a lot of conjecture, but it seems like the simplest explanation.
My guess is one of the people present. Wasn't it a biographer or journalist or something? Probably recording for their book/article? Might have been subpoenaed and complied, providing the tapes...
My guess is one of the people present. Wasn't it a biographer or journalist or something? Probably recording for their book/article? Might have been subpoenaed and complied, providing the tapes and potentially also agreeing to testify about what they witnessed in the meeting. All speculation of course, will be interesting to see what reality is.
It probably was like that, but nothing would change if that person was biographer or journalist. Was the book published? If it was, they simply interviewed them and requested the tape. It looks...
It probably was like that, but nothing would change if that person was biographer or journalist.
Was the book published? If it was, they simply interviewed them and requested the tape.
It looks like trump was open to them because they also were his supporters. This is also why he didn't have problem being recorded. He mentioned "off the record" but that's just a courtesy journalists give. It doesn't apply to investigators.
I also think that maybe even when they were giving that tape they didn't think much of it.
If prosecutors had only that tape and nothing else, they wouldn't be able to build the case. Trump could easily say he talked about something unrelated.
They could say anything they want, the question is whether a juror is going to fall for it. IMO, this makes it way harder for anyone but a heavily deluded MAGA to deny the obvious facts.
They could say anything they want, the question is whether a juror is going to fall for it. IMO, this makes it way harder for anyone but a heavily deluded MAGA to deny the obvious facts.
Honestly it sounds like he's being sarcastic more than anything, and the larger point is that he's bringing these documents out to show wrongdoing on someone else's part. One thing that Trump has...
Honestly it sounds like he's being sarcastic more than anything, and the larger point is that he's bringing these documents out to show wrongdoing on someone else's part.
One thing that Trump has been very good for is getting all the old-money elites to clutch their pearls and panic, the reason why all these lawsuits and indictments keep falling off him is because they know the evidence in discovery will also implicate many of them in worse positions.
The actual point is that he's bringing these classified documents to show to people without any legal reason to see them. I don't see how sarcasm or motive changes these facts.
The actual point is that he's bringing these classified documents to show to people without any legal reason to see them. I don't see how sarcasm or motive changes these facts.
This is pretty incontrovertible evidence IMO.
In the recording you can also hear an unidentified person exclaim “oh my gosh” after she reads the papers.
Isn't the point that he says on the recording something to the effect of "I know am not supposed to have them because they are classified, and there is nothing I can do about that" ?
His line of defense so far was to say that he magically declassified them, and so: no problemo.
Now that's out of the window - and it doesn't even matter that we do now what documents he is actually holding up in the recording.
And like all rich people, he'll get either:
What should happen is that they build a new prison, put him in a central cell, and then construct swathes of extra prison cells around him like mouse traps, automatically catching all the fascists that'd try to storm that building next.
According to the federal sentencing guidelines, he's actually facing something like 17-22 years for these violations of the espionage act. Now of course the sentencing judge doesn't have to follow the guidelines, but many do, and long sentences aren't uncommon historically for violations under the espionage act.
Orange 45 has been a criminal for decades.
He has not seen one single minute behind bars. I don't expect he will, especially after being an ex president (Which is still so very fucked up say)
Yeah but it'll be a discharge sentence I bet, same as what happened to the VW dude in Germany now. Which is effectively just house arrest in a huge mansion, so really, yeah it's house arrest but in that house it hardly matters.
I want to believe something else will happen, but... I really don't know. Doesn't feel like it. The Jan6 sentences were already woefully light for how fucked up that is, plus I have not yet heard of anyone being dragged in front of a court for inciting the crowd and with media personalities like Jones at least it's easy insofar that they recorded their own stuff and made it publicly available.
So yeah... guess 🥂 here's to hope that Trump will face remaining-life-in-an-actual-cell for this. Might at least be a deterrent to others. I just don't have a lot of hope it'll happen.
Was it comedy central where they want to a trump rally handing out signs to supporters that were double sided saying ~'We're not sure which version he's going to go with today, so hold up whichever sign fits the narrative today: "FBI planted the docs" or "He declassified them"'
NixonHillary did it too!I found the laughing more disconcerting, but this was a pretty insane admission.
Yeah, the laughter by the women was appalling. "Ha! Ha! It's just treason!" The proper response would have been to contact the FBI when they were shown those documents.
I mean maybe they did contact the FBI?
This clip is simultaneously amusing, and frightening.
This is the former president and the people he's with speak to him like a child. They did not have his best interest in mind given that this recording exists and was given to authorities. He voluntarily showed them a classified plan of attack on another country. Imagine how easy it could be for foreign adversaries to manipulate him into doing the same with other classified docs. It's clearly possible and to an extent we don't know.
That being said I can't help but laugh that they chose to include him asking for cokes at the end of the clip.
In any other universe, this would cause him to lose all of his supporters. Unfortunately, in this one, his base will say things like: "look at what, we can't see exactly what he showed them, could be folders!" and "gee, AI voices are being admitted as evidence now?"
I really hope more of them wake up, but I'm afraid it's been too long and they're in so deep they'll just keep making excuses until the end rather than admit they're wrong and shattering their worldview.
the only truth he ever said pubically was that if he shot someone on 5th ave and not lose voters. #TotallyNotACult
In any other universe, the fact that he speaks incoherently, like a very young child, should have immediately excluded him from ever being under consideration for public office. I feel like I'm having a stroke whoever I read a transcript of something he said.
His supporters will engage in mental gymnastics as always to defend him, but they'll never really articulate their real position. They may not even realize they hold it, but it's well summarized here:
Only with Trump, there is a king. In all but name.
Not just a felon....
A traitor.
Isn't the problem here that without the actual papers they coudl say thery were talking aobut anything and making a joke? I mean this dude has weasled out of everyhing before hand and it doesn't help when you have every secretary of state and vice president from now back to 2001 having uncontrolled documents discovered in some form.
I just keep seeing the headlines and thinking the press is like We got him this time and once again the turd is going to slip away because they've allowed too many others to do the same thing without the same results.
If this were the only piece of evidence, then yes, and I doubt any prosecutor would have charged him. But it's likely that the prosecution has other means of verifying that he actually was waving around government property. For example, there's probably a witness who can attest to the document's contents -- after all, we still don't know how the government came to possess this tape.
Regardless, this is just one scandalous piece of evidence among many. Let's not forget that he recently went on television admitting that he knowingly withheld documents that needed to be returned (ie, the crime), but he didn't get around to it because he was "too busy" (ie, golfing).
I mean, two of his criminal defense lawyers resigned as soon as he was indicted! Like, it's literally their job to defend him, and they decided the case was hopeless before it even began. It's hard to imagine a worse sign for Trump.
I agree with you, except the last paragraph.
They didn't resigned because he was hopeless, they resigned because from the indictment looks like he used them to commit another crime. If they would continue representing him they likely would end up being defenders as well. From indictment it looked like they weren't aware of being used, but now they are.
Yes, fair point; that was a bit of editorializing on my part. Of course we don't know exactly why they resigned, but it's likely a combination of the following factors:
I am dying to find out though. And who gave it to CNN?
Anderson Cooper said the author and publisher of Mark Meadows' memoir was present and they knew they were being recorded. I took that to mean it was likely recorded by the author for the book. There were quite a few authors writing books (and recording interviews) during/after the Trump presidency. Seems likely that subpoenas were used to acquire the recordings. And those authors will likely show up as witnesses.
Admittedly that's a lot of conjecture, but it seems like the simplest explanation.
My guess is one of the people present. Wasn't it a biographer or journalist or something? Probably recording for their book/article? Might have been subpoenaed and complied, providing the tapes and potentially also agreeing to testify about what they witnessed in the meeting. All speculation of course, will be interesting to see what reality is.
It probably was like that, but nothing would change if that person was biographer or journalist.
Was the book published? If it was, they simply interviewed them and requested the tape.
It looks like trump was open to them because they also were his supporters. This is also why he didn't have problem being recorded. He mentioned "off the record" but that's just a courtesy journalists give. It doesn't apply to investigators.
I also think that maybe even when they were giving that tape they didn't think much of it.
If prosecutors had only that tape and nothing else, they wouldn't be able to build the case. Trump could easily say he talked about something unrelated.
How many of them have refused to return those documents until the feds raid their homes?
They could say anything they want, the question is whether a juror is going to fall for it. IMO, this makes it way harder for anyone but a heavily deluded MAGA to deny the obvious facts.
Honestly it sounds like he's being sarcastic more than anything, and the larger point is that he's bringing these documents out to show wrongdoing on someone else's part.
One thing that Trump has been very good for is getting all the old-money elites to clutch their pearls and panic, the reason why all these lawsuits and indictments keep falling off him is because they know the evidence in discovery will also implicate many of them in worse positions.
The actual point is that he's bringing these classified documents to show to people without any legal reason to see them. I don't see how sarcasm or motive changes these facts.