17 votes

Weekly megathread for news/updates/discussion of Russian invasion of Ukraine - November 9

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Tags: russia, ukraine, military conflict, war, geopolitics, 2022 russian invasion of ukraine, recurring.weekly

This thread is posted weekly on Thursday - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

If you'd like to help support Ukraine, please visit the official site at https://help.gov.ua/ - an official portal for those who want to provide humanitarian or financial assistance to people of Ukraine, businesses or the government at the times of resistance against the Russian aggression.

9 comments

  1. skybrian
    Link
    Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack (Washington Post)

    Ukrainian military officer coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack (Washington Post)

    Roman Chervinsky, a decorated 48-year-old colonel who served in Ukraine’s Special Operations Forces, was the “coordinator” of the Nord Stream operation, people familiar with his role said, managing logistics and support for a six-person team that rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines. On Sept. 26, 2022, three explosions caused massive leaks on the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines, which run from Russia to Germany under the Baltic Sea. The attack left only one of the four gas links in the network intact as winter approached.

    Chervinsky did not act alone and he did not plan the operation, according to the people familiar with his role, which has not been previously reported. The officer took orders from more senior Ukrainian officials, who ultimately reported to Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s highest-ranking military officer, said people familiar with how the operation was carried out. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive details about the bombing, which has strained diplomatic relations with Ukraine and drawn objections from U.S. officials.

    6 votes
  2. [6]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [5]
      tealblue
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Putin is also more popular now than he has been in 8 years. The change in narrative isn't a sign that Russian propaganda is crumbling. On the contrary, it seems to have found more stable ground. I...

      Putin is also more popular now than he has been in 8 years. The change in narrative isn't a sign that Russian propaganda is crumbling. On the contrary, it seems to have found more stable ground.

      I am opposed to Russian aggression and revisionism, but to be honest I have never found the "whataboutism" characterization or critique compelling. In a struggle between competing powers, the totality of one side's moral virtue often must be weighed against the totality of moral virtue of the other side in order to determine who is trustworthy, or at least more trustworthy. The best response to "whataboutism" is to show that the West in its totality is more morally virtuous than Russia in its totality, not to act like these issues exist in a vacuum.

      2 votes
      1. [4]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          fyzzlefry
          Link Parent
          The sheer number of war crimes is also baffling. It's like Russia is using the Geneva conventions as a check list.

          The sheer number of war crimes is also baffling. It's like Russia is using the Geneva conventions as a check list.

          4 votes
          1. Grzmot
            Link Parent
            Saw a video yesterday of a russian kamikaze drone flying into a Ukranian position, (POV of the camera was on the drone, so released by the Russians). For some fucked up reason, whoever operated...

            Saw a video yesterday of a russian kamikaze drone flying into a Ukranian position, (POV of the camera was on the drone, so released by the Russians). For some fucked up reason, whoever operated the drone had decided to duct-tape a live mouse on the drone before they flew the attack.

            It's such an unnecessary, arguably miniscule amount of cruelty it left me shocked. It seems really stupid, I know, but still.

            4 votes
        2. unkz
          Link Parent
          I mean a lot of these are just… alt-right (and to a lesser degree, even mainstream conservative) goals. Criminalizing homosexuality, creating an ethnostate that only tolerates minorities as...

          I mean a lot of these are just… alt-right (and to a lesser degree, even mainstream conservative) goals. Criminalizing homosexuality, creating an ethnostate that only tolerates minorities as labourers, strongman dictatorship, empire building, etc. is virtuous behaviour for a not insubstantial part of the population.

          3 votes
      2. RNG
        Link Parent
        When making such collosal value judgements, we're left with little more than "weigh the total morally good things you're aware of against the total morally wrong things you know about each side."...

        In a struggle between competing powers, the totality of one side's moral virtue often must be weighed against the totality of moral virtue of the other side in order to determine who is trustworthy, or at least more trustworthy.

        When making such collosal value judgements, we're left with little more than "weigh the total morally good things you're aware of against the total morally wrong things you know about each side."

        My prediction is that the side you live in is the side you will be far more likely to view as morally virtuous. You'll be much more familiar with the failings of the other and the successes of your home.

        Since this is a subjective moral value judgement, I'm not sure there's much utility in trying to convince the other side of your sides virtues. Aside from comparing similar behavior on each side and trying to find inconsistencies (i.e., whataboutism), what could one possibly do to convince someone to "switch teams"? And what could would such persuasion do? Does one think they can be more persuasive than their own side's propagandists?

        3 votes