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In blow to Benjamin Netanyahu's government, Israel's top court rules state must draft ultra-Orthodox into IDF
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- Authors
- Chen Maanit
- Published
- Jun 25 2024
- Word count
- 114 words
This seems fair enough to me, as much as I dislike it.
If you are so desperate that you are drafting soldiers, there should be nothing that makes one person exempt from the draft and another required to go throw their life away.
Would you make any accommodation for conscientious objectors?
Also, it's customary that women, children, and men who are too old are exempt.
I don't agree with military service in general and I think most people believe there is a right to object on grounds of conscience; I think the difference between this and the ultra-Orthodox objection is that conscientious objectors object to the act of war in itself, e.g. people who don't want to kill other people or Christian communities who believe that Jesus teaches them to "love their enemies". Many ultra-Orthodox object because they think it will weaken their ties to their community, not because they are inherently opposed to the actions they would have to perform in the military.
It's kind of hard to see why their preference to be in their communities and the army is any more legitimate than anyone else's preference to be at home and not in the army (even if their preference does ostensibly have a religious motive)?
I'm not sure there's a bright line between religious and moral objections. Or at least, not one that couldn't easily be gamed. But now that I'm reading the article, I see that the ruling was against having a broad, automatic exemption. Some individuals could probably still get an exemption on other grounds?
I don't think that's what's relevant (moral views can be influenced/shaped by religion) – I think it's the difference between "I would rather be at home doing X than getting shot at in the military" (note X could be "doing religious worship" or "playing video games" – both equally legitimate preferences in my view – or even something else entirely) and "I find it morally objectionable to engage in war, and therefore cannot carry out military service". Note that many conscientious objectors do serve in the military, just in non-combat roles as @unkz pointed out (for example as medics).
It's probably worth noting that most people respect people's religious practice and beliefs more than video games. This is why being Jewish is a protected class and being a gamer is not.
I think you're incorrectly equating religious study with belonging to a religion at all (though I agree most places consider both more of a big deal than videogames). Iirc the reason the ultra-Orthodox were originally exempted from national service was so that they could instead attend religious schools to engage in religious study. This is more akin to something like attending seminary than it is to being Jewish (especially since, given that this is Israel, pretty much everyone involved is Jewish).
So the Ultra-Orthodox have no principle religious objection to military service?
Assuming by "ultra orthodox" you mean the Haredi community which are the most relevant, then they are wholly and truly convinced that they are doing just as much as the army.
I mean it. Throughout the Tanach you come across stories of amazing feats of victory when the people of Israel are spiritually strong, and horrific tragedies/punishment when they stray. It is believed that a powerful religious community is vital for the prosperity of the people of Israel, and they will happily tell you so themselves. I've heard one rabbi spin a metaphor that they are a sort of "unseen military unit".
Other reasons include the IDF not being very accommodating of religious fundamentalists (such as letting women exist in the same reality as them /s) or claiming that the volunteer rate from their community offsets their moral obligation to serve.
So the short answer is no, they don't have any objection to service, they just often consider their religious activity a service to the country. This isn't a blanket answer, but it covers the sect of the vast majority of ultra religious people living in Israel. Netzah Yehuda is an example of Israeli ultra religious people being more involved in military service, but uh... I would rather we not have more of those. Arming religious extremists is going about as well as you'd expect.
I'm not super knowledgeable about the specifics, but my understanding is that the ultra-Orthodox are not internally homogenous when it comes to many spiritual and cultural matters (there's a huge ideological divide about Zionism afaik, for instance), and that while they share a general aversion to secularism and secular institutions, they aren't religious pacifists. But I'm not even Jewish myself, so someone with more knowledge on the specifics could shed more light on it.
To the best of my knowledge, their objection is not to actually carrying out the acts that would be required of them in the military it's that they would rather be doing things other than military service. But lots of people also have this objection to military service, and yet do not benefit from an exemption!
I think (1) this is a possible instance of the is-ought problem and (2) a reflection of the fact that for unfortunate reasons people tend to hate each other for their religions and (not, as of yet) for playing video games.
How so?
This comment seems pretty disconnected from the actual practices of the IDF, since national military service is mandatory for all Israeli citizens over 18 (women included) and only 9% of those who refuse to serve in the military are granted an exemption.
Yeah, I was speaking more generally. Thanks for the info.
The state's Arab citizens are exempt by default, though of course some choose to do so anyway.
There are lots of non-combat roles in the military. Alternatively, I could envision something along the lines of Americorps/Peace Corps for objectors to contribute semi-equally. I am generally disgusted by any kind of religious special treatment though.
Alternative forms of service for conscientious objectors are also very common in countries where military service exists. For example Switzerland has civil service (which, amongst other things, involves maintaining fallout shelters).
Archived.