15 votes

Weekly Israel-Hamas war megathread - week of September 2

Automatically posted
Tags: israel, palestine, gaza strip, 2023 israel hamas war, recurring.weekly, war, megathread

This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant Israel-Hamas war content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.

Please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.

19 comments

  1. skybrian
    Link
    Israelis stage mass protests, general strike as hostages laid to rest (Washington Post) … … … …

    Israelis stage mass protests, general strike as hostages laid to rest (Washington Post)

    Thousands of Israelis over two days staged the largest anti-government demonstration since Oct. 7, taking to the streets and joining a general strike Monday that brought much of the country to a halt as the last of six hostages recovered from Gaza over the weekend was laid to rest.

    The killings of Israeli American Hersh Goldberg-Polin, 23, and five other hostages sent shock waves throughout Israel, igniting fury among hostage families and their hundreds of thousands of supporters who have for months accused Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of torpedoing a deal in favor of his political interests.

    …

    Though President Joe Biden has repeatedly said a deal to secure the release of the hostages was within reach, Netanyahu has insisted on maintaining an Israeli presence along the Philadelphi Corridor, which Israel says is used by Hamas to smuggle weapons. On Monday, when Biden was asked if Netanyahu was doing enough to secure a hostage deal, he replied, “No.”

    …

    The strike Monday officially ended hours earlier than expected when Israel’s National Labor Court, responding to government complaints, ruled in the afternoon that the work stoppage was a political activity and not a legitimate labor action.

    …

    […] the largest hostage umbrella group has long accused Netanyahu of catering to his hawkish far-right supporters instead of making a deal happen. Israelis are divided between those who want the war in Gaza to continue until Hamas is “destroyed” — a goal military leaders have said publicly is unrealistic — and those who say getting the hostages home alive should be the first priority.

    …

    Monday’s action — which was backed by several business groups and major retailers — marked the first time a general strike had been deployed in the escalating backlash against the government’s Gaza policy.

    2 votes
  2. skybrian
    Link
    U.S. charges Hamas leaders with terrorism, citing Oct. 7 attack (Washington Post) … … … I’m wondering how many other Americans have died in this conflict. According to this article from February,...

    U.S. charges Hamas leaders with terrorism, citing Oct. 7 attack (Washington Post)

    U.S. officials unsealed charges Tuesday against senior Hamas leaders, accusing them of conspiring to provide material support to a terrorist organization, conspiring to murder Americans and conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction.

    …

    The attorney general also said the Justice Department is investigating the killing last week of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, a 23-year-old Israeli-American who was among those taken hostage. The Israeli military found his body and that of five other slain hostages in a tunnel in Gaza. He was buried in Israel on Monday.

    …

    In addition to Sinwar, who is believed to be hiding in Gaza’s subterranean tunnels, the complaint charges three Hamas leaders who have since been killed.

    …

    Of the six Hamas officials charged by the U.S., two others besides Sinwar are still believed to be alive. One of them, Khaled Meshaal, is described by U.S. officials as the head of Hamas’s diaspora office, directing the group’s activities outside the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. The other, Ali Baraka, is the head of Hamas’s National Relations Abroad.

    I’m wondering how many other Americans have died in this conflict. According to this article from February, at least 23 Americans were killed while serving in the Israeli military or police.

    “It’s not surprising to see Americans disproportionately represented,” said Sara Hirschhorn, a visiting professor of history at Haifa University. “Many American Jews who have immigrated to Israel are very idealistic.”

    …

    Twenty-one Americans in IDF units have been killed inside Gaza. Another died along Israel’s northern border with Lebanon, where soldiers exchange fire with Hezbollah militants on a near-daily basis. A 23rd U.S. citizen was killed in Jerusalem while serving in Israel’s border police.

    At least 32 Americans were killed during the initial Hamas rampage. At least 11 others were among those taken hostage that day from communities in the south, where numerous American families lived — some of them left-leaning peace activists who came to Israel decades ago after being part of the civil rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. The State Department said six U.S. citizens are still held in Gaza.

    …

    Hundreds of Palestinian Americans fled from Gaza in the first weeks of the war. None of those who remained have been confirmed to be among the more than 29,000 people killed. The Gaza Health Ministry’s count does not distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths.

    But two American teenagers have been killed recently in the West Bank, part of a surge of violence linked to Israeli military raids and settler attacks since Oct. 7.

    2 votes
  3. [2]
    skybrian
    Link
    Yemen’s Houthi rebels target oil tanker in the Red Sea. US says rebels also hit Saudi-flagged tanker ... ... Is it unusual that direct hits from missiles would do little damage to an oil tanker?

    Yemen’s Houthi rebels target oil tanker in the Red Sea. US says rebels also hit Saudi-flagged tanker

    In Monday’s first assault, two ballistic missiles hit the oil tanker Blue Lagoon I and a third exploded near the ship, the multination Joint Maritime Information Center overseen by the U.S. Navy said.

    ...

    “All crew on board are safe (no injury reported),” the center said. “The vessel sustained minimal damage but does not require assistance.”

    ...

    Later on Monday morning, the British military’s United Kingdom Maritime Trade Operations center reported a second attack off the Houthi-controlled port city of Hodeida. The private security firm Ambrey said an aerial drone hit a merchant ship, though no damage or injuries were reported. The attack happened only a few kilometers (miles) from where the Blue Lagoon I attack occurred, Ambrey said.

    Is it unusual that direct hits from missiles would do little damage to an oil tanker?

    1. MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      Depends on where they hit and the kind of missile. Some tankers have definitely taken more damage from similar strikes, but there's a lot of ship there.

      Depends on where they hit and the kind of missile. Some tankers have definitely taken more damage from similar strikes, but there's a lot of ship there.

      2 votes
  4. [15]
    BeanBurrito
    Link
    Does anyone else think/fear that there will be another October Surprise this year in the form of a military event in the Middle East?

    Does anyone else think/fear that there will be another October Surprise this year in the form of a military event in the Middle East?

    1. [3]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      I think things could escalate at any time. Why would one time be more likely than another?

      I think things could escalate at any time. Why would one time be more likely than another?

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        BeanBurrito
        Link Parent
        Proximity to the U.S. election, hence the term "October Surprise". Usually an event engineered by Republicans to embarrass Democrats and cause them to lose votes.

        Proximity to the U.S. election, hence the term "October Surprise". Usually an event engineered by Republicans to embarrass Democrats and cause them to lose votes.

        2 votes
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          Okay, thanks for clarifying. I have a general assumption that the world doesn’t revolve around the US, that local issues are more important. So based on that, I suspect that if there were an...

          Okay, thanks for clarifying. I have a general assumption that the world doesn’t revolve around the US, that local issues are more important. So based on that, I suspect that if there were an escalation, it would be in response to other events in the Middle East and influencing US elections would be way down the list of motivations.

          10 votes
    2. [11]
      Interesting
      Link Parent
      For what it's worth: The party most likely to escalate is Iran, and they would prefer Harris over Trump. Hezbollah in particular is an Iranian proxy, as is Hamas to a lesser extent. Israel...

      For what it's worth: The party most likely to escalate is Iran, and they would prefer Harris over Trump. Hezbollah in particular is an Iranian proxy, as is Hamas to a lesser extent.

      Israel attempting to escalate in a way to hurt Harris risks backfiring if they fail, since they depend on US support.

      1 vote
      1. [8]
        rosco
        Link Parent
        I'm curious what's leading you to think this. From even the last few months, it feels like Israel has been escalating tensions with both Lebanon and Iran, and opened an invasion of the West Bank

        For what it's worth: The party most likely to escalate is Iran, and they would prefer Harris over Trump. Hezbollah in particular is an Iranian proxy, as is Hamas to a lesser extent.

        I'm curious what's leading you to think this. From even the last few months, it feels like Israel has been escalating tensions with both Lebanon and Iran, and opened an invasion of the West Bank

        5 votes
        1. [6]
          Interesting
          Link Parent
          Nobody can tell the future, so I'll admit all of this is just my opinionated guess. Israel knows it can only bite the hand that feeds it so much - - historically, and to a extent still, they've...

          Nobody can tell the future, so I'll admit all of this is just my opinionated guess.

          Israel knows it can only bite the hand that feeds it so much - - historically, and to a extent still, they've benefitted from bipartisan support . Every escalation they've made so far so far has had a pretext. The Israeli government knows that the conflict isn't going to disappear in 4 or 8 years, and so they can't afford to completely piss off either American party in an unforgivable way.

          Iran on the other hand can escalate about as much as it wants, so long as they don't go something bad enough that the US is willing to send in soldiers.

          1 vote
          1. [5]
            Melvincible
            Link Parent
            What is the pretext for the invasion/destruction of infrastructure in Jenin, if you know?? It seems like it's not being reported on much at all.

            What is the pretext for the invasion/destruction of infrastructure in Jenin, if you know?? It seems like it's not being reported on much at all.

            3 votes
            1. [2]
              Interesting
              Link Parent
              Oh, wow, that's a reminder of my personal echo chamber. The first thing I saw about it was the justification. Though that's mostly because I limit how and where I check news on the conflict for my...

              Oh, wow, that's a reminder of my personal echo chamber. The first thing I saw about it was the justification. Though that's mostly because I limit how and where I check news on the conflict for my sanity.

              Jenin has for many years been a stronghold for Hamas and PIJ in the west bank.

              https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-longest-west-bank-raid-in-20-years-idf-aims-to-set-stage-for-future-smaller-ops/

              https://www.timesofisrael.com/soldier-killed-16-injured-by-roadside-bombs-during-operation-in-west-banks-jenin/

              4 votes
            2. Felicity
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Allegedly, according to the IDF, it was to stop an impending wave of terror attacks from the west bank. We've had a few car bombs come through and a bunch of close calls, and allegedly heads of...

              Allegedly, according to the IDF, it was to stop an impending wave of terror attacks from the west bank. We've had a few car bombs come through and a bunch of close calls, and allegedly heads of the Palestinian authority are concerned over a Hamas takeover of the territories (not that I think their preferred course of action was the IDF coming in and destroying more than 80% of Jenin's infrastructure...)

              3 votes
            3. Tuaam
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I believe the pretext they are using is that there is Hamas and PIJ Presence within the West Bank, and that they are fully invading to 'deal with it'. The context is that there is rampant settler...

              I believe the pretext they are using is that there is Hamas and PIJ Presence within the West Bank, and that they are fully invading to 'deal with it'. The context is that there is rampant settler violence which is supported by the IDF where settlers attack Palestinian villages, there are dozens of videos online showing settlers harassing men, women, and children but I am not in the mood to show them. I believe B'tselem probably has material covering it. On the other hand, there are terror attacks (some foiled, others not) within Israel done by Hamas, the most notable being a failed (?) suicide bombing in Tel Aviv a week or so ago. I say notable because it's the first time in 20 years they've done it, and I don't remember seeing any similar incidents in Gaza.

              I'm not too sure about what exactly Israel wants to do in the long run. Many of these things are going to be harder to report on as time passes, given how hard it is to report within Gaza.

              1 vote
      2. [2]
        BeanBurrito
        Link Parent
        Her policies, so far, seem to be the same as Biden's and they had no trouble helping the October 7th invasion of Israel. Trump is more likely to unquestionably support Netanyahu's Israel. He...

        For what it's worth: The party most likely to escalate is Iran, and they would prefer Harris over Trump.

        Her policies, so far, seem to be the same as Biden's and they had no trouble helping the October 7th invasion of Israel.

        Israel attempting to escalate in a way to hurt Harris risks backfiring if they fail, since they depend on US support.

        Trump is more likely to unquestionably support Netanyahu's Israel. He offered U.S. support for annexing the West Bank to Adelson's widow in exchange for campaign funds.

        2 votes
        1. Interesting
          Link Parent
          My comment was in particular to an "October surprise" escalation intended to change the course of the US election. Iran has no incentive to hurt Harris in particular over Trump. Some of Israel's...

          My comment was in particular to an "October surprise" escalation intended to change the course of the US election. Iran has no incentive to hurt Harris in particular over Trump. Some of Israel's right parties do, but there is a high level of risk to them if they do and fail (and even if they succeed, if the Democratic party holds a grudge)

          3 votes