15 votes

Spain now has the most female cabinet in Europe

14 comments

  1. [8]
    Algernon_Asimov Link
    Nice work! The article seems to want sell this as a negative ("just 24%"), but it's still a positive move to see that the percentage of women in parliaments has doubled in the past 20 years....

    Nice work!

    According to the most recent figures from the International Parliamentary Union, just 24% of parliamentarians around the world are women, twice the share recorded 20 years ago.

    The article seems to want sell this as a negative ("just 24%"), but it's still a positive move to see that the percentage of women in parliaments has doubled in the past 20 years. Hopefully that trend continues!

    Meanwhile, here in Australia, we currently have 5 women in a cabinet of 23 ministers: 21.7% representation. It's still better than a few years ago when the previous (male) Prime Minister had exactly one woman in his cabinet - and had the gall to appoint himself as Minister for Women!

    5 votes
    1. [7]
      ajar Link Parent
      I mean, 24% is pretty negative considering women comprise about 50% of the population. Sure it's better than before, but it's sti) unbalanced, and I don't think there's an argument anymore about...

      I mean, 24% is pretty negative considering women comprise about 50% of the population. Sure it's better than before, but it's sti) unbalanced, and I don't think there's an argument anymore about the lack of training/experiencr on the women's side.

      1. [6]
        Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
        You see the glass half empty (only 24%). I see the glass half full (doubled, and still increasing). There's still a long lead time required to get women into cabinet. You can't just say today that...

        You see the glass half empty (only 24%). I see the glass half full (doubled, and still increasing).

        There's still a long lead time required to get women into cabinet. You can't just say today that you'll increase the number of women in cabinet to 50% and then achieve it tomorrow. It takes years of work and experience for any person to move from grass-roots party member, to candidate, to member of parliament, to junior minister, to cabinet minister.

        As for lack of training/experience, there is an argument that women aren't trained or experienced enough to become cabinet ministers - but that's because some political parties aren't facilitating an increase of women candidates at the grass-roots level, to allow them to get elected to parliament in the first place, to gain the necessary experience. For example, one of our two main political parties in Australia has had a quota system in place to increase the number of women candidates and women MPs in their party - and nearly 50% of their MPs are now women. If they get into government, they have a large pool of female talent with varying levels of experience to fill their ministry and cabinet. But that has taken them many many years to achieve. Meanwhile, the other main political parties has no such quotas, and only about 20% of their MPs are women - which is why they have such a low number of women in cabinet.

        It takes time to change things.

        8 votes
        1. [5]
          ajar Link Parent
          Well, I'd say you see the glass half full and I only see it a quarter full... But whatever. I don't agree with this, tbh. At least in Spain we've had many women in political power positions for a...

          Well, I'd say you see the glass half full and I only see it a quarter full... But whatever.

          There's still a long lead time required to get women into cabinet. You can't just say today that you'll increase the number of women in cabinet to 50% and then achieve it tomorrow

          I don't agree with this, tbh. At least in Spain we've had many women in political power positions for a while (regional, mainly), and many parties actually have had quotas as well for a while. If they'd wanted to have 50% they certainly could have done this since quite some time ago.

          Also, I don't know how it is in Australia, but in Spain we've had ministers that were not especially qualified in the field of their ministry, so I doubt that is a valid reason.

          I think at this point, what takes the most time is not women achieving enough training or expertise (there are plenty), but men (especially men in power) accepting they should let them be in high positions.

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Leon Link Parent
            You raise interesting points, but you make an assumption that it is men "not letting" women into positions of power. I suspect it's a more subtle problem than that and likely revolves around...

            You raise interesting points, but you make an assumption that it is men "not letting" women into positions of power. I suspect it's a more subtle problem than that and likely revolves around social expectations, family and perception of women by the general population (women included)

            This is a great report on the subject https://www.womeninparliaments.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Final_13012015_The-Female-Political-Career.pdf

            7 votes
            1. ajar (edited ) Link Parent
              You are totally right, thanks for pointing that out. It's not just men not letting them access those positions, but it's something that permeates all society, including women, no doubt. That was...

              You are totally right, thanks for pointing that out. It's not just men not letting them access those positions, but it's something that permeates all society, including women, no doubt. That was certainly an exaggeration on my part. I should've reread that before posting. I'll check the link, thanks!

              4 votes
          2. [2]
            Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
            It's a saying. People can look at the same glass which has water up to the halfway line, and optimists will describe it as "half full" while pessimists will describe it as "half empty". To me, the...

            Well, I'd say you see the glass half full and I only see it a quarter full...

            It's a saying. People can look at the same glass which has water up to the halfway line, and optimists will describe it as "half full" while pessimists will describe it as "half empty".

            To me, the fact that the proportion of women in parliaments has increased, and is continuing to increase, is cause for hope. I'm optimistic that this will continue to improve.

            1. ajar Link Parent
              Haha, yeah I know the saying. What I meant is that I don't only see it positively (there are more women than before) but also negatively (they are still very far from equally represented). Maybe...

              Haha, yeah I know the saying. What I meant is that I don't only see it positively (there are more women than before) but also negatively (they are still very far from equally represented). Maybe the quarter full image wasn't that clear.

  2. [6]
    tyil Link
    This post is tagged with "gender equality", but the numbers aren't 50/50, so they're not equal. This would be females oppressing males, as seen evidently by the numbers shown in the chart. Or...

    This post is tagged with "gender equality", but the numbers aren't 50/50, so they're not equal. This would be females oppressing males, as seen evidently by the numbers shown in the chart. Or would you rather say that equal outcome is not, and should not, be the measurement for gender equality?

    1 vote
    1. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      A tag is used to identify the topic of a post. In future, these tags will be used as filters and search terms so that people can find topics they're interested in. In some cases, a very common tag...

      This post is tagged with "gender equality", but the numbers aren't 50/50, so they're not equal.

      A tag is used to identify the topic of a post. In future, these tags will be used as filters and search terms so that people can find topics they're interested in. In some cases, a very common tag may be used as the basis for creating a new sub-group.

      In this context, the tag "gender equality" is telling people that this post is about the topic of gender equality or the process of achieving gender equality, rather than asserting that the content of the article is describing equal representation by the genders.

      In other words, don't read that tag (or other tags) quite so literally.

      7 votes
    2. [3]
      ajar (edited ) Link Parent
      What I certainly wouldn't say is that the tag reflects the composition of the government in question, but that it is related to the topic of gender equality. I'm not sure what you're trying to...

      Or would you rather say that equal outcome is not, and should not, be the measurement for gender equality?

      What I certainly wouldn't say is that the tag reflects the composition of the government in question, but that it is related to the topic of gender equality.

      This would be females oppressing males, as seen evidently by the numbers shown in the chart.

      I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by this or by the subsequent (and loaded) question. So, please be clearer if you want to discuss this topic with me, thanks.

      Edit: To clarify, I don't agree that this configuration implies oppression of women over men and I don't think 24% of women in cabinets is anything close to gender equality. And I was definitely not making any claims by posting this article. So that's why I don't understand where you want to get with your comment.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        tyil Link Parent
        What I'm trying to make clear is that outcome of gender composition of a certain group does not reflect anything on whether the genders are equal, thus the "gender equality" tag is misplaced. For...

        What I'm trying to make clear is that outcome of gender composition of a certain group does not reflect anything on whether the genders are equal, thus the "gender equality" tag is misplaced. For some reason, equal outcome, or equity, is taken as having a similar meaning to equal opportunity.

        1. ajar Link Parent
          I still don't understand why you assumed I was making any claims at all in the first place. I understand gender equality refers to the balance of men are women in different fields, opportunity to...

          I still don't understand why you assumed I was making any claims at all in the first place.

          I understand gender equality refers to the balance of men are women in different fields, opportunity to access high governments positions in this case. I don't see how this doesn't apply to this article, tbh. If you mean that that is not the correct term, just let me know (I'm not specialized in these sociological terms, so I don't deny that could be the case).

          9 votes
    3. Rabdomante Link Parent
      Wrong. Gender equality would be a state in which the odds of having a 74% female cabinet are the same as the odds of having a 74% male cabinet. Since the overwhelming majority of world cabinets...

      This post is tagged with "gender equality", but the numbers aren't 50/50, so they're not equal.

      Wrong. Gender equality would be a state in which the odds of having a 74% female cabinet are the same as the odds of having a 74% male cabinet.

      Since the overwhelming majority of world cabinets (or even Western cabinets) are male-dominated, this female-dominated cabinet is actually moving us closer to gender equality. The tag is entirely factually correct even in the most precise statistical sense.

      2 votes